My first semi nudes.....

[atlcruiser]

Until reciently I have never really been into taking pictures of people; no idea why.

I tried a few portraits early in the week and this AM we went out and took 6 exposures right after dawn.

I am neither happy nor unhappy with them... I would like some opinion and critique
thanks

deardorff 810
360 commercial
arista 400@200
rodinal 1:50 16min jobo

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6148/5971338312_e335978f1b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/53092319@N04/5971338312/)
0711 bw 810018.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/53092319@N04/5971338312/) by urbanlandcruiser (http://www.flickr.com/people/53092319@N04/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6132/5971339096_a0fb15b18e_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/53092319@N04/5971339096/)
0711 bw 810020.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/53092319@N04/5971339096/) by urbanlandcruiser (http://www.flickr.com/people/53092319@N04/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6147/5970785153_f55cd75cd6_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/53092319@N04/5970785153/)
0711 bw 810022.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/53092319@N04/5970785153/) by urbanlandcruiser (http://www.flickr.com/people/53092319@N04/), on Flickr

[dsphotog]

I like the combination of urban graffitti background and "human graffitti".

[Alan Gales]

Cool! I agree with dsphotog.

She's got more tats than Frank's models!

[atlcruiser]

thanks....she will soon be one of Frank's models :)

in the first frame both her back and the back of the car are in focus. I shot this at f16. Looking now I think it would be stronger if I used a larger f stop and kept the focus more on her back and left the car to blur. Not sure.....

[Flynnie]

I think they're effective, esp. the third, but reckon shallower depth of field, maybe longer lens, to concentrate more on her tattoo and figure would be good too.

[Stephane]

She should have been in panties... They show through anyway.

With Frank, she will wear nothing, except maybe her shoes ;)

[Jim Jones]

I also agree with dsphotog. This is the beginning of what could be a significant and extensive series. Don't stop now. Don't blur the cars. They work too well with the model.

[atlcruiser]

she is none too happy with the panty lines......

I thought the tattoos had a bunch of texture as do the railcars. I am still concerned one might overshadow the other but thanks for the nice words....


BTW: the model is my GF and soon to be fiancee Lori

[John Koehrer]

Never done it so consider that whilst reading.

I would like your fiance to dominate the frame and have the OOF areas be primarily be the general shapes of the graffiti rather than sharp.

[Michael Gordon]

You said it first: not bad, not great either.

*Those* shorts are distracting and unattractive, IMO. That looks like really great body art and I'd like to see more of it/her and less of the surroundings.

I could care less about categorization, but how are these semi-nude?

[atlcruiser]

You said it first: not bad, not great either.

*Those* shorts are distracting and unattractive, IMO. That looks like really great body art and I'd like to see more of it/her and less of the surroundings.

I could care less about categorization, but how are these semi-nude?



Not sure what else to call them....1/2 clothed = semi nude?

I agree with all your points. The shorts were really due to the public location of the shots.

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

I really like the first one; is a fantastic shot.

I don't think pants are distracting, but, IMO, darker pants with different tone than model's skin would make a more attractive image.

[Tim Meisburger]

I like the first one as well, and think the shorts look fine. The lines and wrinkles add interesting shadows. It would be interesting to shoot it again with a shallow depth of field. I suspect the tattoos would blend in more with the blurred background giving a sort of chameleon effect, but I think I would prefer this; sharp and sharp.

Well done...

[atlcruiser]

Thanks Tim....you might be right on the OOF background. We have already discussed redoing this next Sat am.

Domingo...The shorts comment is very valid. While I think this color worked OK I can see where a darker color would add a much needed level of contrast. My thought is to try black shorts and set them to zone 2 and see what happens.

And Tim.... I am assuming the lines and wrinkles refer to the shorts not to the model :)

[sly]

Maybe this is just me, but I found the shoes really out of place in the setting and with the casual looking shorts. Barefeet? flip flops? hiking boots?

[johnielvis]

again-----

hohny bastad's

the tats are extreme and distract

sorry dude---call it like I see it

get a girly w/no tats to distract

or just give up the nude thing...it goes nowhere...trust me....unless you wanna get laid...then don't bother bothering....just shoot and show to her and say hey lookie here...post on flicker or someothe....

[dsphotog]

I just showed your images to my wife, her suggestion was for the model to put on black seam stockings, heels, and a short black skirt.

[johnielvis]

UN

BELIEV


AB

LE

what I said

[Roger Cole]

again-----
the tats are extreme and distract

sorry dude---call it like I see it

get a girly w/no tats to distract

I think the tattoos make these. They would be totally different photos without them. I like the way they almost make her look clothed, until one looks more closely.

I also like the shoes, as they do appear a bit out of place in a way that works artistically, and the urban graffiti. I think I would agree about the seamed stockings going a further step in the same direction, but can't be sure. It'd be worth a try.

Not sure about darker shorts but it's also an idea worth a try.

I had to show these to my girlfriend who has a fair number of tattoos (nowhere near that many or that large an area though) and often admires urban graffiti if it's artistic, which I don't find this to be. If I had one suggestion for doing more of these it would actually be "find better, more artistic graffiti."

I like the plants encroaching on the left of the frame in the last one and the right in the first one. It adds an element of the wild reclaiming formerly humanized but now abandoned space.

Is the atl in your forum handle derived from Atlanta? That does look like some areas around here.

[atlcruiser]

again-----

hohny bastad's

the tats are extreme and distract

sorry dude---call it like I see it

get a girly w/no tats to distract

or just give up the nude thing...it goes nowhere...trust me....unless you wanna get laid...then don't bother bothering....just shoot and show to her and say hey lookie here...post on flicker or someothe....



John you are tough!

I have no plans to be any sort of nude photographer! The honest truth is that my GF has modeled in the past and has been on my ass for never taking any pictures of her or even working on portraits.


I assigned myself the task of trying to take some portraits and trying to learn from the process...the goal is to learn and to try to intergrate portraits into my overall style; what there is of it :)


I can agree with you that in a very traditional setting the tats might distract but the tats, in this case, are the core of the photo and the goal was to work the tats against the grafitti.

How is the Linhof treating you?

[atlcruiser]

I think the tattoos make these. They would be totally different photos without them. I like the way they almost make her look clothed, until one looks more closely.

I also like the shoes, as they do appear a bit out of place in a way that works artistically, and the urban graffiti. I think I would agree about the seamed stockings going a further step in the same direction, but can't be sure. It'd be worth a try.

Not sure about darker shorts but it's also an idea worth a try.

I had to show these to my girlfriend who has a fair number of tattoos (nowhere near that many or that large an area though) and often admires urban graffiti if it's artistic, which I don't find this to be. If I had one suggestion for doing more of these it would actually be "find better, more artistic graffiti."

I like the plants encroaching on the left of the frame in the last one and the right in the first one. It adds an element of the wild reclaiming formerly humanized but now abandoned space.

Is the atl in your forum handle derived from Atlanta? That does look like some areas around here.

This has been great feedback. The entire shoot was almsot an afterthought. we had discussed it then sort of forgot about it. At 6:30am we decided to go for it with just about that much planning.

The shorts are an issue "unless" the goal was to work the shorts against the sexy shoes...that was not the plan and it did not work by accident :)

I am 100% OK with the seamed stockings :)

We are in Atl. The shoot was at the train yard off of Glenwood in East Atlanta.

[Thom Bennett]

David,

Good to see you getting some mileage on that Deardorff. What about something like this crop? With something other than the shorts.

[atlcruiser]

I like that....

of course I am NEVER close enough! Maybe a 500mm lens for me :)

[johnielvis]

John you are tough!

I have no plans to be any sort of nude photographer! The honest truth is that my GF has modeled in the past and has been on my ass for never taking any pictures of her or even working on portraits.


I assigned myself the task of trying to take some portraits and trying to learn from the process...the goal is to learn and to try to intergrate portraits into my overall style; what there is of it :)


I can agree with you that in a very traditional setting the tats might distract but the tats, in this case, are the core of the photo and the goal was to work the tats against the grafitti.

How is the Linhof treating you?

not tough....DRUNK is the word
got overserved by a bartendrix last nite
with tats......

har har har

do what you want--but don't put anything into what people say--I'm just saying that you shouldn't waste your skills to get laid---unless you WANT to do nudies...it's something you should do for you and not on compulsion by anyothers.

and particularly for any positive feedback...then you start working "for them" and you'll end up hating your work and resenting everything....oh well...that's just me maybe.

just like posting....I never post images....cause I figure--what's the point...also I don't want pics of me or ppl I know being "out there" for many reasons.....

linhof kicks ass...just got the 65 mounted on it--just got the board...that 90 I think I like better---it did clean up nice...and 67mm filters!!!! hey that's my size!

[Frank Petronio]

She needs tighter, more complimentary shorts, like cut-offs or boy shorts.

You need to stand closer and put her light skin against the darker portions of the background... and I agree, the graffiti is low quality yet it competes with the intricacies of her ink. If you want a complex background, try nature, like a bush with small leaves, or something with a consistent pattern.

You might as well as admit to Johnielvis that you have sex with your model, he may be shocked to learn that it was your intention all along. Just be grateful you're not in the Mideast or he might rally up a gang to stone you to death.

[johnielvis]

again...people misunderstand

Ihave NO problem with nudes or even pr0n

Ihave a problem with guys trying to justify it.....you CAN do things with NO justification and it's OK.....it's OK to shoot nudes because you are a horny guy--you need no excuse of "form" or "composition" or any other crap.

just post withOUT the excuse and I'm fine.....put the technical stuff up, but the artistic bs really needs to be put away.....I see that and it's like any other excuse---it's the excuse that's the abomination here in my view.

there...you got 2 MORE cents now

[Frank Petronio]

oh then we agree, I said that in the other thread too.

[Scott Walker]

In my opinion you have a bit too much background and the shorts seem out of place with everything. Being a big fan of both tattoos and graffiti I really like seeing the two together but I don't think the graffiti needs to be in sharp focus because it does compete a bit especially in the top image. In the third image you can see the line of the underwear under the shorts and they seem to accentuate the lines in the tattoo where the shorts only block the lines of the tattoo, I think just loosing the shorts in that one would make a world of difference. I have seen dresses tailored to show off back pieces. I think that a long flowing halter style dress showing the entire tattoo and a tighter crop with a bit more selective focus would be amazing. :)

[jp498]

I like the second one because it's sort of 2-dimensional flat perspective and the lack of perspective makes you focus on the shape of the lines of the car in relation to the shape she is making.

The first and third, I didn't see any benefit of the use of perspective. Some have suggested thinner DOF might make use of the 3-d perspective. You're probably distracted by the beauty to think about how it's going to look in 2-d, which is understandable.

For a 3-d use and to make use of different depths of field, are there any places where this is a big long row of cars where should could stand beside one, and you could also look down a row of cars on the track toward a vanishing point? (which could be out of focus)

Any places she could lay down (or sit back too) and show off the back might be a good play of curves versus industrial lines. I'd think getting closer would be beneficial in this as others have suggested.

As for clothing, the hiking shorts aren't ideal as has been mentioned. I'd consider a light pleated skirt if you're going back to the trains with lots of vertical lines; they might go together and wouldn't be so likely to show off the underwear. Some dark tights would work too, but might be a cop-out way of avoiding making use of that part of the body in the photo. Do both for her perhaps. A bigger piece of clothing that might be interesting is overalls (like a train engineer might have), unbuckled, hauled down, and riding real low. The versatility of overalls might allow you to do some side or front bust shots too and provide some modesty if she's careful.

[atlcruiser]

Frank vs johnelvis in a cage match!

I hope I wa snot misunderstood...I am not trying to go for beauty or to how show the female form or any of that very valid crap...I enjoy takng pictures and i have a big hold in my knowledge when it comes to portraits. This is a way to start to fill the hole :)

And yes; I have sex with my model. I am sort of like a yeti in heat...I dwarf her!

I think we all agree on the shorts. Funny enough, the overalls were an option we decided against; might change that.

Some very good critique here. Thanks to all of you; I have learned much.

[Tom J McDonald]

Maybe you could also take a picture of her front :)

[MMELVIS]

The pictures are well framed and put together. I would have shortened the depth of field to clearly make the tattooed back the focal point.

[atlcruiser]

Maybe you could also take a picture of her front :)

Sat AM. She is getting the short black skirt, stockings and we will do both ft and back :)

[Tom J McDonald]

Sat AM. She is getting the short black skirt, stockings and we will do both ft and back :)

:)

[Dan Dozer]

Shooting successful environmental portraits is really a lot harder than it looks, espeically when you are working with nudes. I also think shooting environmental portraits is totally different from shooting portraits in the outdoor environment. I had a worksession a while back with Kim Weston and he gave me the following advice:

Anyone can shoot a photograph of a nude model in the forest. But if there isn't a connection between the model and her surroundings, it's really two different photographs that don't necessarily work together.

When I look at your images, the first two I see you trying to relate the model with the traincar environment she is in (good start in the right direction). When I look at the third image, I see a model and, oh by the way, there is a train and big bush behind her (background and model don't compliment each other).

I see a lot of photographers these days trying to shoot this type of subject matter and thinking so much about the model, they forget about the rest of what's in the image.

I remember how "lost" I was when I started working with models about 5 years ago. I don't claim to be a great photographer of models yet, but I have learned a lot in working with the models I have. If you want to get good at this type of work, you're going to have to put a lot of time in practicing and working with more subjects.

Hope this is the type of feedback you were looking for.

[atlcruiser]

thanks dan, that is exaclty what i was looking for. I have no desire to shoot any other models at all. I only want to learn this process a bit better to help my photography in general.

Tomorrow AM we are goign out to try this again and see how we can improve.

The original idea was to try and work her tats against the texture of the railcars. The single biggest issue for me was her not being seperated from the background enough. The 2nd issue was that I was too far away and th 3rd would be the clothing. I have a plan to address all 3 issues tomorrow and I hope the images come out much better.

[MMELVIS]

thanks dan, that is exaclty what i was looking for. I have no desire to shoot any other models at all. I only want to learn this process a bit better to help my photography in general.

Tomorrow AM we are goign out to try this again and see how we can improve.

The original idea was to try and work her tats against the texture of the railcars. The single biggest issue for me was her not being seperated from the background enough. The 2nd issue was that I was too far away and th 3rd would be the clothing. I have a plan to address all 3 issues tomorrow and I hope the images come out much better.

Did you have any luck with the new shots? This new direction you are taking with your photography is very interesting.

[atlcruiser]

A combination of heat and an irritated model killed us last Sat. My fingers are crossed for this Sat.

Thanks for the support

[gbunton]

Johnnielivs might be the only guy on here I respect and I've never seen his work, but I can tell from his comments he gets it. Personally I would approach the shoot differently. A body that is inked as much as hers should be the point of focus, the problem is and it's widespread on this forum, most photographers are not able to concept the shoot before they set up a camera. I come from a commercial background so I story board almost any shoot like this. Draw your lighting, research time of day, and I don't mean strobes.
Think of it like this, 355mm Ektar an Avadon favorite lens, move in close crop her at the bottom of her waist, two three feet from the background of the train, put a simple PVC flag above her and drop the background two stops, simple fill card in front create tension by your lighting, much Like frank does on here. You are on to a nice shot it just needs to be worked. I respect you for posting it and these forums should be a format for sharing ideas. Some day I'll post a a few pics and see what everyone thinks. good luck with this it can be a great photo.

[Asher Kelman]

The concept of "environmental nude" immediately puts the intended photograph into some classification system against which it might be judged and come up wanting.

Instead, why not look at the work as simply pictures that need to be executed well. That's why this advice is so pertinent.


.......most photographers are not able to concept the shoot before they set up a camera. I come from a commercial background so I story board almost any shoot like this. Draw your lighting, research time of day, and I don't mean strobes.

and when one returns home and makes the print, a photocopying the picture is good for critique with a red wax pencil to see where the picture can be improved. To me the planning making and remaking of the picture is a cycle.



Think of it like this, 355mm Ektar an Avadon favorite lens, move in close crop her at the bottom of her waist, two three feet from the background of the train, put a simple PVC flag above her and drop the background two stops, simple fill card in front create tension by your lighting, much Like frank does on here. You are on to a nice shot it just needs to be worked. I respect you for posting it and these forums should be a format for sharing ideas.

Great ideas and supportive suggestions!

Asher

[atlcruiser]

Johnnielivs might be the only guy on here I respect and I've never seen his work, but I can tell from his comments he gets it. Personally I would approach the shoot differently. A body that is inked as much as hers should be the point of focus, the problem is and it's widespread on this forum, most photographers are not able to concept the shoot before they set up a camera. I come from a commercial background so I story board almost any shoot like this. Draw your lighting, research time of day, and I don't mean strobes.
Think of it like this, 355mm Ektar an Avadon favorite lens, move in close crop her at the bottom of her waist, two three feet from the background of the train, put a simple PVC flag above her and drop the background two stops, simple fill card in front create tension by your lighting, much Like frank does on here. You are on to a nice shot it just needs to be worked. I respect you for posting it and these forums should be a format for sharing ideas. Some day I'll post a a few pics and see what everyone thinks. good luck with this it can be a great photo.

I appreciate your point and agree with much of it. Check out this weeks examples for some mild improvement.

I do not so much agree with knowing what the shot will be nor do I have a very solid concept of it. This next round will be the last of this series as it will become more of a formula than a photo.

My background is sculpture; I see myself building on photos and building skills as I look at my work. I see every photo I take as practice.