Infrared film in 120 format

[tedw6]

What infrared films are currently being used?

I'm shooting a 2x3 view camera and greatly lament the death of Konica 750. It looked great with just a red #29 filter. I've got 10 rolls left (ebay purchases) that I'm saving for a European trip in August.

I've tried Rollei IR400 and Ilford SFX and am underwhelmed with both of these. The Rollei does seem a little better. One difficulty is the combination of the center filter needed for wide angle lenses and the 29-red or r72 far-red filters make for a 7-9 stop filter factor.

This is fine if you like the leaves blurred (sometimes a good effect).

I've thought about Efke, but it's not cheap and would be more difficult to use, changing bag and all.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Ted

[Herb Cunningham]

I have good results with the Rollei with a 720 filter, but as you say, very slow exposure times. The only way I know to have good infrared with high film speed is to have a IR converted digital camera. that works well, although you have the small input size.

[drew.saunders]

Efke in 120 doesn't require a changing bag (but you should load in subdued light). Only 35mm does, as IR light can get in the "trap" in the cassette. The paper backing of 120 is good enough.

It is ISO 1 or so with the Hoya R72 filter and slower with the Lee gel filter, so you're not going to be stopping much action with that film.

You can probably leave off the center filter, as a little vignetting might add to the IR look.

[BetterSense]

Efke gives good IR effects, but with the filter I have it's about ISO 1.

[al olson]

I concur regarding the loss of Konica 750 and I miss the Kodak HIE or the older HSI films as well.

My experience with Efke is that it is extremely slow for IR exposure. I have used both the sheet and the roll films. In bright summer sunlight I expose at an EI of 1.5 through an R-72 filter. For winter or low sun angles reduce the EI by 1 to 2 EV.

I have also used Efke with a Wratten A (red) filter, but the visible red light overwhelms the infrared so that the Wood Effect is nonapparent. Conversely, Kodak films would produce the Wood Effect even with a Wratten A. Neither Efke nor Rollei produce results that look anything like the Kodak IR. In certain situations such as a polarizing sun angle, certain vegetation, etc. they will come close.

Rollei IR is considerably faster and I use an EI of 6 to 12, depending on the angle of the sun, for an R-72 filter. As you have noted, the Wood Effect seems less pronounced than with Efke. It does darken the skies, however. An annoyance with Rollei sheet is that it is coated on 4 mil base rather than the typical 7 mil base used for most sheet film.

For 120 infrared, SFX has been my film of choice. With an IR filter it does darken the sky and some vegetation will exhibit the Wood Effect. For coniferous and juniper the effect is not as pronounced. The IR range (with 50% sensitivity at 720nm) is simply too short, especially when using an R-72 with 50% cut off at 720nm. I get mixed results from SFX as can be seen in this thread
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=77048
Some scenes the trees are whitish and some the sky is dark, but not consistently.

[vinny]

I still use konica 750 and i like it the best. I have some 10 roll bricks in the freezer if you're interested. Send me a pm.

[Roger Cole]

There's obviously interest in a film like HIE, and these manufacturers are producing films that are "sort of" like it. Is there a big technical challenge to producing film with deeper IR response like HIE? I'm just wondering why the current films are as limited as they are, since there's obviously demand for film with deeper IR sensitivity.

[al olson]

I should also point out that Efke and Rollei are notorious for having a soft emulsion. I have been trying to print some Rollei negatives this afternoon and scratches seem to come out of nowhere although I was very careful during the developing process.

Roger, as far as I understand, the IR sensitivity of the HIE was accomplished through the application of a dye that makes the silver grains sensitive to IR. How this is accomplished, I do not understand, whether it is because the dye causes IR to be converted to a frequency (fluoresces maybe?) to which silver is sensitive, or whether the silver grains actually become sensitive to IR because of the surrounding dye. Obviously Efke, Rollei, nor Ilford have been able to achieve the same formula. I think that Konica and Agfa were closer, than the afore-mention, but they are gone.

Kodak has announced that they have no intention to ever produce HIE again. Their main customers were USGS and the military who are both using satellite imagery in its place. Hence, their support for the IR volume market is gone. It would be nice if Kodak would license their IR technology to one of the smaller producers. The fees from this would also enhance their bottom line.

[D. Bryant]

There's obviously interest in a film like HIE, and these manufacturers are producing films that are "sort of" like it. Is there a big technical challenge to producing film with deeper IR response like HIE? I'm just wondering why the current films are as limited as they are, since there's obviously demand for film with deeper IR sensitivity.

Howdy neighbor!

Kodak obviously had a proprietary formula which may not be available for license for other producers for various reasons.

These days there isn't that large of a demand for IR films, now that the US government has exited the market. Since the demise of HIE the remaining IR emulsions are just a pale imposter for HIE.

Remaining stocks that maybe sourced are likely to be fogged so be wary of old HIE film, even film that has been frozen.

[Roger Cole]

Howdy neighbor!

Kodak obviously had a proprietary formula which may not be available for license for other producers for various reasons.

These days there isn't that large of a demand for IR films, now that the US government has exited the market. Since the demise of HIE the remaining IR emulsions are just a pale imposter for HIE.

Remaining stocks that maybe sourced are likely to be fogged so be wary of old HIE film, even film that has been frozen.

It's a painful thing but the best way to do IR nowadays is with a digital camera with the IR filter removed. :(

[Heespharm]

I've heard some good results with Rollei 80s

[D. Bryant]

It's a painful thing but the best way to do IR nowadays is with a digital camera with the IR filter removed. :(

Actually I don't mind that considering the final price of HIE before it's death. With some PP one can get a really good digital clone of HIE.

Don

[Sirius Glass]

It's a painful thing but the best way to do IR nowadays is with a digital camera with the IR filter removed. :(

For my personal use, I would rather use film. I have decades of experience with remote IR sensors using digital readouts for transmission. Some of the areas that digital has over film are that the sensitivity et al plus ease of use.

The US government bought IR film from Kodak for decades after the government no longer needed IR film just to keep the production running. Most of that film was never used and went bad. If the US government had not invested in maintaining the production of IR film, Kodak would have left that market long before it did.

Steve

[Roger Cole]

I would rather use film too, it's just not nearly as good as it used to be. I'll probably experiment with some of the films available now because I enjoy tinkering with film, but it would be nice to have one with decent sensitivity, deep IR response like HIE, and a not so delicate emulsion. Oh well. We still have excellent conventional films and that's way more important.

[D. Bryant]

I would rather use film too, it's just not nearly as good as it used to be. I'll probably experiment with some of the films available now because I enjoy tinkering with film, but it would be nice to have one with decent sensitivity, deep IR response like HIE, and a not so delicate emulsion. Oh well. We still have excellent conventional films and that's way more important.

HIE in sheets had a very delicate emulsion. It was easily scratched just from loading it into the holder.

Anyway AFAIC, there are no more IR films.

[Brian C. Miller]

There are a couple of techniques in The Film Developing Cookbook to generally increase a film speed, but I haven't tried them with the current IR films. The instructions with the techniques suggested that they worked well with fast films, but not with slower emulsions.

I use a deeper red filter, a B&W 092, which I think is similar to the Hoya R82. The best is/was Kodak HIE/HIR, and from there it's down hill.

[Roger Cole]

HIE in sheets had a very delicate emulsion. It was easily scratched just from loading it into the holder.

Anyway AFAIC, there are no more IR films.

I didn't know HIE was that delicate.

There are none as good or as deeply IR sensitive as HIE, but you don't consider the Rollei and Efke IR films to be IR? They are very slow with an IR filter and not sensitive as far into the infrared as HIE was, but they are sensitive to spectrum that is infrared, if just barely so.

[D. Bryant]

I didn't know HIE was that delicate.

There are none as good or as deeply IR sensitive as HIE, but you don't consider the Rollei and Efke IR films to be IR? They are very slow with an IR filter and not sensitive as far into the infrared as HIE was, but they are sensitive to spectrum that is infrared, if just barely so.

Personally I think they are a waste of time and money.