buying a darkroom

[gaylandd]

I have the oportunity to purchase almost everything I need to set up a darkroom. My concern is, am I going to pay too much?

The setup includes the following for about $750:
Omega D5-XL w/Variable Condenser Lamp House
35mm, 2.25x2.25, 6x7, and 4x5 negative carriers
50mm lens
Developing Trays
11-12.5 X 15.5
9- 9.5 X 11.5
3- 6.5 X 8.5

6 measuring cups of varying sizes
4 red safe lights
1 photo oil coloring kit
3 paper tongs
12 32oz chemical containers (6 round 6 square)
2 64oz chem containers (round)
10 easels (6 large 4 small)
1 digital darkroom timer
2 chemical timers
1 squeegie
3 thermometers
1 photo dryer (durst frc 200)
1 tin paper safe
2 photo protectors 11 X 14 and 8 X 11
10 negative hooks
Set of 12 contrast filter sheets
2 grain focusers
1 1.5 foot paper cutter
1 dodgette set
1vignetter set
1 texture sheet set
1 set of hand coloring pens
1 big bag of film
1 negative film roller
1 negative film viewer
1 negative light

I know I'll still have to buy a 135mm lens for printing 4x5. Any thoughts?

[bob carnie]

When I started printing this setup would have cost me thousands, I bit the bullet, It all depends upon how much you desire to print.

looks like a very good deal to me.
It seems if people don't pay $50 bucks nowadays for all this they are getting ripped off.
I would base my decision on your passion, kind of like golf, I wouldn't pay 25 bucks to set myself up , but I will spend thousands on photo related stuff.


I have the oportunity to purchase almost everything I need to set up a darkroom. My concern is, am I going to pay too much?

The setup includes the following for about $750:
Omega D5-XL w/Variable Condenser Lamp House
35mm, 2.25x2.25, 6x7, and 4x5 negative carriers
50mm lens
Developing Trays
11-12.5 X 15.5
9- 9.5 X 11.5
3- 6.5 X 8.5

6 measuring cups of varying sizes
4 red safe lights
1 photo oil coloring kit
3 paper tongs
12 32oz chemical containers (6 round 6 square)
2 64oz chem containers (round)
10 easels (6 large 4 small)
1 digital darkroom timer
2 chemical timers
1 squeegie
3 thermometers
1 photo dryer (durst frc 200)
1 tin paper safe
2 photo protectors 11 X 14 and 8 X 11
10 negative hooks
Set of 12 contrast filter sheets
2 grain focusers
1 1.5 foot paper cutter
1 dodgette set
1vignetter set
1 texture sheet set
1 set of hand coloring pens
1 big bag of film
1 negative film roller
1 negative film viewer
1 negative light

I know I'll still have to buy a 135mm lens for printing 4x5. Any thoughts?

[Gem Singer]

$750 is way too much.

The seller should pay you to haul off that old darkroom stuff that he no longer uses.

However, to be fair, offer $200. Settle for $250.

[Roger Thoms]

I think that is high, and agree with Gem on the price you should offer. This is assuming the stuff is clean and in good condition. Actually the seller would be doing great if he got $250 for it.

Roger

[Brian Ellis]

There's certainly a lot of stuff on that list you can do without and probably don't even want though some of it might be nice to have. For example, do you really need or even want a 35mm enlarger lens, a paper cutter, a vignetter set, hand coloring pens, a paper safe, paper dryer, etc. etc.? If I were looking at this list the main thing I'd notice is that I'm buying a 4x5 enlarger with a lot of unnecessary (for me) accessories and without one essential accessory (a 4x5 enlarging lens).

OTOH, there's no question you'd be saving time and possibly money that you'd otherwise have to spend assembling even the essentials yourself much less everything on this list and there's something to be said for that, assuming everything here is in good condition and is of good original quality (e.g. are the easels adjustable or fixed, if adjustable are they adjustable on all four sides or just two? What brand grain focusers, timer, and safe-lights?).

Obviously nobody can tell you what to do but as an approach to take I'd suggest looking at it as though you were paying about $150 for the enlarger (chassis and head), lens, and negative carriers, which is roughly what they would sell for alone if in good condition. And then ask yourself if the other stuff is worth the difference to you.

[Brian C. Miller]

IIRC, I paid about $500 + shipping for my D5XL with dichro head. I agree with Bob, this is a reasonable deal. If you want a real second opinion, go and look up completed auctions on eBay.

[Tim k]

Go to Portland Craigslist. Enter Darkroom. Send me the difference. :)

[cyrus]

I think the convenience and time/hassle saving value of getting most everything you need in one shot should also be taken into consideration. That makes it a good bargain.

[John Koehrer]

It's high at $750. IMO $250 would be on the low side. I think somewhere between $300=$400 would be about right. About half of the long list is toss ins or toss outs depending who's paying for the disposal. Pens, bottles graduate film clips(?) aren't that costly to begin with and certainly not several hundred bucks.
The enlarger & carriers might be $200-$300 in my area (Chicago) The rest nickel and dime. Let it sit for a while if he's got it in a month he may be more willing to bargain.
You can never go into a situation like this with the attitude that there'll never be another deal like this, you lose every time.

[D. Bryant]

I have the oportunity to purchase almost everything I need to set up a darkroom. My concern is, am I going to pay too much?

The setup includes the following for about $750:
Omega D5-XL w/Variable Condenser Lamp House
35mm, 2.25x2.25, 6x7, and 4x5 negative carriers
50mm lens
Developing Trays
11-12.5 X 15.5
9- 9.5 X 11.5
3- 6.5 X 8.5

6 measuring cups of varying sizes
4 red safe lights
1 photo oil coloring kit
3 paper tongs
12 32oz chemical containers (6 round 6 square)
2 64oz chem containers (round)
10 easels (6 large 4 small)
1 digital darkroom timer
2 chemical timers
1 squeegie
3 thermometers
1 photo dryer (durst frc 200)
1 tin paper safe
2 photo protectors 11 X 14 and 8 X 11
10 negative hooks
Set of 12 contrast filter sheets
2 grain focusers
1 1.5 foot paper cutter
1 dodgette set
1vignetter set
1 texture sheet set
1 set of hand coloring pens
1 big bag of film
1 negative film roller
1 negative film viewer
1 negative light

I know I'll still have to buy a 135mm lens for printing 4x5. Any thoughts?

I would offer no more than $250.

Search Craig's List for 'enlarger' or 'darkroom' and you will likely find bargains.

I just searched my local area and found a Saunder's Omega 4x5 4500XL enlarger kit for $300 - now that's a bargain.

[Jay DeFehr]

The more patient you are, the less you'll have to pay. Of course, the seller's patience is also a factor, but you're in the dominant bargaining position because there's a lot more used darkroom equipment than there are buyers for it. This is a good exercise in game theory. Are you familiar with the ultimatum game? It's a sociological experiment in which one subject is given $10 and instructed to offer to split it with a second subject. There is only one offer, and no possibility of counter offers (hence, ultimatum). Economics predict the logical offer is $1, and that the offered party should accept, but that's not what happens. If the offer is too low, the offered party rejects it, even though they get nothing instead of something. Interestingly (or maybe obviously, to some) the offerers rarely offer the $1/$9 split, but something more generous.

Your game with the seller is not an ultimatum game, but the findings of it should inform your first offer. You don't want to offer an offensively low price, or the seller might act against his own interest out of an offended sense of fairness. The trick is to determine what the fair price is. In this case, there's a lot of room for interpretation, because the market for used darkroom eq is so weak. It may be that the fair price for the equipment is offensively low to the seller, and that seems like a real possibility given his asking price, but that shouldn't obligate you to pay more than the fair price.

You need to devise a way to offer a fair price without offending the seller. One way is to tell him you only have the fair price to spend, and perhaps negotiate a little, and let him keep something you don't really want. This will allow him to save face and agree to your price, and you'll still get the important parts of the lot. It might also help the seller come to terms with the reality of the market if you appeal to his shared interest in photography and emphasize that you plan to use the eq and not to part it out for a profit. You might even get a friend in the bargain, and that's worth more than any equipment. Good luck!

[jeroldharter]

I think some sellers paid full fare for their gear and have no idea of the degree of depreciation they are facing. You might educate the buyer with some completed auction prices on Ebay.

The best I have done for a 4x5 enlarger is $99 for a Beseler 45 MXT with a dichroic head and a 3 lens turret with Nikkor 50, 105, 135mm lenses. But that was a steal. I think $300 is the most I would pay if everything was in very good condition and the lens was prime. At the same time, I would consider most of what is included to be junk that I would replace so it adds little value. By buying locally, you are probably saving $100 in shipping without the risk of damage in transit so I would factor that in.

[John Kasaian]

I'd split the difference and offer $375.
There is a lot of nice stuff here but there is a lot of stuff you probably don't need or would neccesarily want. Tell him you would still need to buy a lens (which in fact, you do.)

[Eric Woodbury]

Most of the chaff at the bottom you don't want. And two grain focusers. What is that? 3-D? One might be really good or not. You're missing several good lenses -- 80 and a 150mm. But even glass isn't worth much now. I got a 180mm El Nikkor for $35 and that included overnight shipping. I recently bought a Beseler 45 CB for a little over a hundred and it came with a lens, 4 speed easels, a couple of safelights, and a pile of other stuff. I couldn't sell my other Beseler 45, so I gave it to a friend of mine along with the lens.

The price is too high, but a lot. Take the enlarger, the lens, and the neg holders for $150. By the time you buy a few more things from Craigslist, you'll have all the other stuff times 2. Or if you have more money than time, pay a little more and take it all, but don't pay $750.

Good luck.

[bob carnie]

Well I guess my common sense fails me, if I wanted it I would pay the price, no haggling.

I am going to watch more American and Canadian picker shows followed by pawnstars as obviously I am a fool with his money.

[JohnN]

Many people like to get bargains on darkroom equipment, especially enlargers. Many times "bargains" aren't "bargains, but money pits.

I once bought a used bargain enlarger, and ended up spending hundreds trying to get it back to spec. After 18 months of frustration, I sold it all for $100. Expensive lesson learned.

Today, if I saw a used enlarger that I thought I wanted, before even thinking about price, I would check it out to make sure it could be aligned, and that it would stay aligned while the head traveled up and down the column. And, I would check for other wear issues depending on the make and model of the enlarger. I would want to make sure that I knew what was the REAL condition of the enlarger.

After checking the equipment out, I would see what market price is, and how much I would want to pay for it. For equipment in mint to excellent shape, I would pay a premium, especially if it came with most or all of the accessories I would need for it, such as lens boards and negative carriers.

[jp]

Print out some completed ebay auctions showing how enlargers went for way less $ with lenses included. Mention to the seller he/she won't be paying ebay/paypal fees and won't be packing/shipping. If it's all perfect, it's worth paying more than the Ebay unknown, but you take that risk in this case by burning a lot of gasoline to get to go see it. The fact they are selling all of it as a package hints they want it gone, but don't know the fair price.

It is a matter of patience. You can sit around and check c-list and wait for the right deal to come along, or you can call the seller and check back with them a few weeks later if you want something they have but not for their initial price.

[Rick A]

Go look at the kit. Hand the seller three-$100 bills and dont say anything else-- the first person to talk loses. He probably wont want to hand your money back, and you wont add to it. Keep a very straight face. Do not let the seller see any other money, have the $300 only in your pocket, keep any other money stashed elsewhere. Don't budge. No matter what he says, don't say anything unless they hand your money back. Then be ready to dicker.

[domaz]

Print out some completed ebay auctions showing how enlargers went for way less $ with lenses included. Mention to the seller he/she won't be paying ebay/paypal fees and won't be packing/shipping. If it's all perfect, it's worth paying more than the Ebay unknown, but you take that risk in this case by burning a lot of gasoline to get to go see it. The fact they are selling all of it as a package hints they want it gone, but don't know the fair price.

It is a matter of patience. You can sit around and check c-list and wait for the right deal to come along, or you can call the seller and check back with them a few weeks later if you want something they have but not for their initial price.

Don't do this printing out Ebay auctions is not a good way to get a bargain. People on Craigslist don't understand or don't care about Ebay and will blow you off if you do that. You have to exercise good old boy bargaining techniques if you want a deal on Craigslist or other F2F transaction.

[dap]

I'd say fair market value is between $300 and $500 for all the stuff...assuming it is in average or above average condition. That being said, if the equipment is in "like new" condition w/ low miles $750 might not be that far out of line. Condition is everything.

Closed ebay auctions can give you an general idea of prices. The problem with ebay is that a good portion of darkroom equipment sold on there is thrashed out junk or incomplete. Most photos are too small to give you a real feel for the condition. Even if you do find a gem you are still looking at some high priced shipping charges (4x5 enlargers usually cost between $100 and $150 to ship...if the seller is even willing to deal with the headache of shipping one). From experience I can also tell you that your chances of having an enlarger damaged during shipping is very high. Personally I would much rather pay a premium to a local seller than have an enlarger shipped across country.

Take a look at it and decide how badly you want it. Offer a fair price if it is a nice kit or move on.