Super Graphic viewfinder?

[dsphotog]

Anyone ever seen a Super/Super Speed Graphic with a viewfinder?
Mine has the rangefinder & the sports/frame finder, but no optical viewfinder, or provision for mounting one.
I would like to be able to shoot handheld, I know the revolving back makes a viewfinder more complicated. I wonder how these cameras were used handheld.

[Sirius Glass]

With very strong arms. :)

On page 76 of THE ALL-AMERICAN CAMERAS a review of GRAFLEX® by Richard P. Paine the two photographs of the Super Graphic and Super Speed Graphic sport the sport viewers but not tubular viewfinders.

Steve

[banjo]

graflex did have optical viewfinderit is Cat#9136

[mike rosenlof]

4x5 press cameras like this were usually used handheld, and most of the period photos I've seen indicate that the wire frame viewfinder was the normal way to use them. when hand holding, the obvious way to do a vertical is ignore the revolving back and turn the thing 90 degrees.

[Kuzano]

Out of 4 Super or Super Speed Graphics I have owned, I can't think of one that did not have this slide on mount for the optical view finder. The little U shaped notches encountered a latch tab on the bottom of the viewfinder.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/kuzano/P6180003.jpg

I probably have one or more of these mounts and possibly the viewfinder in my trove of parts. I don't use these, as I generally strip all the "parts" Supers down for GG viewing only. I couldn't handhold a Super if my life depended on it and I am not frail, since I can pack a tripod and all needed accessories. Hand holding five pounds of camera is an excellent way to wasted film that is becoming too costly. A stripped down Super weighs about 3 pounds. I take everything (parts and electronics, plus a half inch of the top off the body) out of the camera, and end up with a 4X5 that is more manageable and has a majority of the movements that many metal field view cameras have.

Also see this current eBay listing for a pic of a super with the viewfinder mounted.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Graflex-Super-Graphic-/300539156269?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item45f987972d

[dsphotog]

That's exactly what I need!
Lemme know if you find one!
Thanks,

[IanG]

I shoot hand held with a Super Graphic, with a high degree of success, where I can use a tripod I do but many places I shoot they aren't permitted. Mine's never had a View finder and I don't miss it, there is one on my Crown & Speed graphic's but I prefer to use the wire frame.

One advantage of the wire frame is it's still correct regardless of the focal length of lens so I use it with my 90mm as well as my 135mm or 150mm. The second is if any rise or front tilt are used the wire finder allows for it.

Just to correct Mike Rosenlof the Super Graphic's are Technical cameras not Press cameras, Graflex should have introduced them years before they did to compete with the Linhof's and British MPP's..

Ian

[al olson]

I shoot hand held with a Super Graphic, with a high degree of success, where I can use a tripod I do but many places I shoot they aren't permitted. Mine's never had a View finder and I don't miss it, there is one on my Crown & Speed graphic's but I prefer to use the wire frame.

One advantage of the wire frame is it's still correct regardless of the focal length of lens so I use it with my 90mm as well as my 135mm or 150mm. The second is if any rise or front tilt are used the wire finder allows for it.

Just to correct Mike Rosenlof the Super Graphic's are Technical cameras not Press cameras, Graflex should have introduced them years before they did to compete with the Linhof's and British MPP's..

Ian

I bought my first Super Graphic in 1958 and used it four years for press photography. My second Super Graphic is a Toyo model produced in '76, but purchased in '98. In all these years I have never seen a Super Graphic with a tubular viewfinder, but that is not to say that one could be added, either by the manufacturer or the owner.

The wire frame finder does not have the same angle of view as the lens. As I recall it is set up to frame closely to the 150mm which would mean that more film is cropped when using 135 or 127 mm lenses. As far as press photography was concerned, we were not worried about wasting the film close to the edge. What was important was to get a publishable image.

In the late '50s I was using my Super Graphic for press photography. All shots were hand held, including sports -- basketball, football, hockey and intramurals. The wire finder is handy for action photos because you can see the play developing outside the angle of view for the lens. The side-mounted flash made a sturdy handle for hand held support.

I have to say that I never heard the term 'technical camera' until joining this forum. The Super Graphic lacks back movements, outside of rotation, that would qualify it as a technical camera as I see the term used by Linhof. Fifty years ago, even the Linhof Technikas were considered press cameras. If a press photographer showed up at an event with a Linhof, he was given a lot of deference.

As far as hand held photos are concerned, today I sometimes cheat and use a monopod for support.

[dsphotog]

Now that I think about it, I recall once (years ago) seeing clear plastic masks with framing lines, that would fit into the front frame.
Hmmm...

[BrianShaw]

IIn all these years I have never seen a Super Graphic with a tubular viewfinder, but that is not to say that one could be added, either by the manufacturer or the owner.

Mine has a tubular viewfinder. Itis quite convenient for hand-helkd work.

I believe I read somewhere that it was an option. Maybe I read that in the SuperGraphic owners manual... but since that is so easily obtained I'll leave that verification as an exercise for the inquisitive student.

[BrianShaw]

Now that I think about it, I recall once (years ago) seeing clear plastic masks with framing lines, that would fit into the front frame.
Hmmm...

Yes, for framing with the roll film holders. There are also framing masks for the tubular viewfinder for the various film formats and lens focal lengths... but I suspect you already know about those.

[IanG]

I bought my first Super Graphic in 1958 and used it four years for press photography. My second Super Graphic is a Toyo model produced in '76, but purchased in '98. . . . . . . . . . . . .

I have to say that I never heard the term 'technical camera' until joining this forum

The term "Technical camera" was already in common use to describe these cameras long before I was born and well before the introduction of the Super Graphic.

The pre WWII Linhof Technika was the first "Technical camera and that dates back to 1937. Toyo called the 45a a "Technical Field camera" and essentially it's a Super Graphic.

In the early 1950's manufacturers made a distinction between a "Technical camera" and a "Press camera some manufacturing both, MPP then later Graflex with the Super Graphic.

So MPP manufactured their MicroTechnical cameras and also a MicroPress (essentially a British Speed Graphic) and later Graflex sold the Super Graphic alongside the Pacemaker Crown & Speed Graphics.

Technical cameras were designed to be all round work-horse cameras, multi purpose, suitable for Press work as well as more general commercial and technical/industrial work.

Maybe the term was used less in the US but it's been in use for 60-70 years in Europe as an important category of Large format cameras.

Ian

[toolbox]

Interesting...I've owned several Super Graphics, and they all had tubular viewfinders. I always just assumed they were all like that.

[Kuzano]

The pre WWII Linhof Technika was the first "Technical camera and that dates back to 1937. Toyo called the 45a a "Technical Field camera" and essentially it's a Super Graphic.

Ian

I don't have a good understanding of the terms "technical" or "press" in terms of which cameras they apply to.

I do know the Super and Super Speed essentially changed from the previous wood body Graflex camera's and added a few front movements, plus a more sophisticate red switch to add an electronic trip to the front shutter.

I also know that the Super Graphic parts and rights were sold to Toyo, and Toyo produced the Toyo Super Graphic with minor changes before they came out with the Toyo 45A. Appearance wise, the Toyo Super was almost indistinquishable from the Graflex Super Graphic.

I spoke with Fred Lustig about this and his remarks about Toyos manufacture of the Super were not positive.

[IanG]

I don't have a good understanding of the terms "technical" or "press" in terms of which cameras they apply to.

In simple terms a "Press camera" is a basic form of field camera, wood or metal with little or no movements, designed to be used hand held or on a tripod.

A "Technical camera" is a metal field camera with a greater range of movements but unlike a wooden field camera it's also designed to be hand held for Press wok.

The term "Technical camera" came about with the 1937 Linhof Technika to indicate the greater features of this style of camera.

So a Crown/Speed Graphic, Busch Pressman, MPP MicroPress is a press camera, and the Linhof Technika, MPP MicroTechnical, Super Graphic and Japanese copies are technical cameras.

Many European photography books listed & compared the attributes of Press, Technical, Field and Monorail LF cameras, I';; see what Michael Langford had to say on the subject in his books Basic & Advanced Photography.

Ian

[Teodor Oprean]

I take everything (parts and electronics, plus a half inch of the top off the body) out of the camera, and end up with a 4X5 that is more manageable and has a majority of the movements that many metal field view cameras have.

Could you please list which parts you remove from a Super Graphic? I am planning on stripping down one such camera soon.

By the way, your inbox is full.

[brucetaylor]

I like using my Super Graphic handheld with the wire viewfinder. I bought a tubular finder to put on it, but so far haven't bothered. I often use a monopod with it. It doubles as a handy carrying handle.

[Teodor Oprean]

Could you please list which parts you remove from a Super Graphic? I am planning on stripping down one such camera soon.

Nevermind. I have succeeded in doing the gutting procedure today. It was very simple. I removed everything from inside the top compartment, plus the wires, the plunger and the solenoid that is hidden inside the front standard. The camera is noticeably lighter now, but it still feels like it's too heavy given how much got removed.

[Jim Andrada]

+1 on hand holding the Super. Works just great with a Grafmatic on the back. Someone before me nicely mounted a Linhof hand grip on the left side and I have a flash for the right.