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Mark Sawyer
10-Jun-2011, 13:01
I just thought it was a nice title for a thread. :)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51137976660_9cc3d934d2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kUTuQL)

Scott --
10-Jun-2011, 13:03
How'd ya read it wit all dem back'erds letters?!

Mark Sawyer
10-Jun-2011, 13:07
Sorry, Scott!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51137087758_cb9fa6ec64_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kUNWAS)

Vaughn
10-Jun-2011, 13:10
Your new motto:

"I love wet plate, but I always have to reverse everything in Photoshop..."

:D

Scott --
10-Jun-2011, 13:17
Your new motto:

"I love wet plate, but I always have to reverse everything in Photoshop..."

:D

:D

Mark Sawyer
10-Jun-2011, 13:18
Photoshop fixes everything! :D

Darin Boville
10-Jun-2011, 13:20
O.K., picture analysts. Why does the first one work better than the second?

--Darin

Vaughn
10-Jun-2011, 13:20
Photoshop fixes everything! :D

Even if it ain't broke...

Scott --
10-Jun-2011, 13:33
O.K., picture analysts. Why does the first one work better than the second?

--Darin

Dunno, but you're totally right, Darin.

Mark Sawyer
10-Jun-2011, 13:33
O.K., picture analysts. Why does the first one work better than the second?


Because Photoshop also ruins everything? :confused:

Jim Cole
10-Jun-2011, 14:46
O.K., picture analysts. Why does the first one work better than the second?

--Darin

I agree, but dont know why. The "correct" image feels unbalanced and creates tension, where the reversed image feels comfortable.

Barry Kirsten
10-Jun-2011, 14:51
Maybe why viewing on the GG is so pleasant?

Barry.

Heroique
10-Jun-2011, 15:09
Waiter, there’s a duck in my drink.


Photoshop fixes everything! :D

Waiter, there’s still a duck in my drink.

Mark Sawyer
10-Jun-2011, 15:45
It could be that the first image feels better because it flows left-to-right, (the way we're accustomed to reading), which is how almost all my images flow.

William Whitaker
10-Jun-2011, 15:49
Why does the first one work better than the second?

I had the same experience when viewing the images the first time. And I have an observation for whatever it's worth.

The writing on the envelopes in the first image is backward and only readable through some effort (for most of us). As such, it is more of an abstraction. When the writing is the right way 'round it becomes a stronger compositional element. As readable text it demands that my eye pause to read it and take it in. In the backwards version the writing is simply lines without any particular meaning and my eye regards it differently.

The glass is what my eye goes to initially and then follows the shadow over its diagonal course. Diagonals are very strong compositionally and my eye wants to follow no matter how hard I fight it. When the writing is the correct orientation as in the second image my eye now is tripped up in trying to read the writing and ends up going back and forth between the shadow and the writing which run in opposite directions.

Mind you, this is only my 2¢ worth. But it's what I experience when I look at the images. It would be interesting to see the same setup done with different lighting to eliminate the shadow. It would also be interesting if the envelopes had writing in Japanese, Chinese or Arabic. Since I can't read those alphabets, I doubt I would experience the same conundrum.

I took a basic drawing class back in the '90's and was admonished by the teacher for being too literal. He disliked photography. I, of course, had come from a photography background and thought you should be able to read the street signs and license plates in a drawing. But this guy wouldn't hear of it. He didn't want any clear lettering and didn't want to know how many panes of glass were in a window. At first I thought he was nuts. But I've come to appreciate the value of abstraction. That doesn't mean that I only shoot with a Verito wide open. But it does have a lot to do with how I try to interpret the world around me.

My former teacher probably still hates photography. But as a result of his class I grew quite fond of drawing.

William Whitaker
10-Jun-2011, 15:57
It could be that the first image feels better because it flows left-to-right, (the way we're accustomed to reading), which is how almost all my images flow.

Or perhaps because I'm left-handed and I don't have to reach across the image to pick up the glass.

Harold_4074
10-Jun-2011, 16:20
The writing on the envelopes in the first image is backward and only readable through some effort (for most of us). As such, it is more of an abstraction. When the writing is the right way 'round it becomes a stronger compositional element. As readable text it demands that my eye pause to read it and take it in. In the backwards version the writing is simply lines without any particular meaning and my eye regards it differently.


You probably have something there. Back in the days when store clerks would compare the signature on the back of a credit card with the one on the charge slip, it was not unusual to see them turn both upside down before looking at them. The reason was that the mind can compare the "shapes" more easily if it is not busy "reading" the letters.

Mark Sawyer
10-Jun-2011, 18:51
Or perhaps because I'm left-handed and I don't have to reach across the image to pick up the glass.

Careful there, Will... you don't know what could be in one of my glasses... ;)

And I tend to agree with you and Harold about the writing. Paul Berger did a beautiful series of images a few decades ago of advanced mathematical equations and diagrams left on classroom blackboards by professors at a college where he worked part-time as a janitor. The mystery of those marks was marvelous to those who couldn't understand them, but the math professors thought they were junk...

We can't seem to ignore the written word...

cpercy
10-Jun-2011, 20:32
I have noticed this phenomenon quite a number of times, I look at something on the ground glass and the composition "reads" very well, and then when printed like this image they feel wrong especially when you have seen the reverse of the image.

One thing I have observed about this phenomenon is that most often it seems to happen when the image is one that leads the viewer into the frame from the upper left hand side (like the strong diagonal shadow of the glass). In other words in the same way we westerners have trained our minds to read the written word.

I have always wanted to do a comparison of reversed images between a group of westerners who read left to right top to bottom and a group Asians and middle easterners who read in the opposite direction to see if this theory holds any truth.

But in any case I have certainly experienced this effect many times and have even on occasion deliberately printed images backwards when they worked better that way.

I also wonder how many times I have looked at something real world thinking it would make a good composition and then didn't shoot because the image didn't look right on the ground glass.

threemilesfinal
11-Jun-2011, 03:36
It could be that the first image feels better because it flows left-to-right, (the way we're accustomed to reading)

that is what i was thinking as well. because of that, i found my eye drawn to the glass first whereas in the second it gets distracted reading the envelope.

Kevin M Bourque
11-Jun-2011, 04:09
Funny, I think the second one works better!

In the second pic the implication is that the glass is about to leave the picture. I know its not moving, but the "tail" provided by the shadow could be interpreted as a line of motion. For me its more satisfying in the second image.

Also, the images are different because in one the glass is half empty and in the other its half full ;-) Snatch the pebble from my hand, Grasshopper.

JC Kuba
11-Jun-2011, 10:01
I'm left handed and the glass looks to me more normal being on the left. When I see a picture of a place setting, it doesn't look normal unless the forks are on the left. I wonder if left/right handedness has anything to do with my preference for portraits facing to the left and preferring scenes where movement is to the left. I'm curious if there has been any study about these type of preferences in photos and how much it effects buyers. It would suck to find the greater percentage of buyers prefer the photo flipped horizontally to what you feel is right.

Mark Sawyer
11-Jun-2011, 12:12
We compose upside down, tintypes turn things backwards... it's a wonder any composition works! But somehow it all seems natural after a while, and I don't pay much attention to it. I know how the translation will come out. I'm usually watching the light...


Also, the images are different because in one the glass is half empty and in the other its half full ;-)

Nope, in both versions it's half-way in-between! :)

eddie
11-Jun-2011, 12:33
O.K., picture analysts. Why does the first one work better than the second?

--Darin

i would have to check with my professional photo buddy/guru. he knows all this stuff.

there is something about what direction things happen in and how that creates tension in the photo or the opposite. it was amazing the stuff that this pro has learned and understands about photography, composition and the viewer, amazing. the greatest photo critique person i ever met.

bobwysiwyg
11-Jun-2011, 13:05
there is something about what direction things happen

I've noticed this myself in the past. Does one's "handedness" (lefty vs righty) have anything to do with it?

Jim Galli
11-Jun-2011, 13:11
Ansel NEVER writes letters to me. :( :(

Sillies. if it's backwards we know intuitively that it is wet plate, and therefore, art.

Kirk Gittings
11-Jun-2011, 15:15
O.K., picture analysts. Why does the first one work better than the second?

--Darin

Good observation. You are absolutely right. It must be the duck.

cpercy
11-Jun-2011, 19:59
I do believe whether the glass is half empty or half full is entirely dependent upon whether you're a drinking or a pouring.

Mike Anderson
11-Jun-2011, 20:16
O.K., picture analysts. Why does the first one work better than the second?

Motion from left to right is better. For me. Usually.

...Mike

Mark Sawyer
11-Jun-2011, 20:30
Sillies. if it's backwards we know intuitively that it is wet plate, and therefore, art.

Yep, it's art alright, but probably the kind you don't want to step in... :o