A real Newb question (what do I need?)

[nickademusss]

OK, I want to develop my own BW film, I am a digital guru, who is finding out that film looks way better :)

What will I need to process 4x5 film negatives? I dont want to print them just yet, I will get to that later, can someone point me to a list of instructions/materials supplies needed?

All I have in inventory so far is a darkroom timer I picked up at the thrift store for 5 bucks...

Sorry to ask such a multi level complex question!

[Kevin J. Kolosky]

Go on Ebay and for 5 bucks invest in a used copy of Fred Picker's book called Zone VI Workshop. You will learn a lot about Exposing and developing Black and white 4 x 5 film from that Book.

[jwaddison]

OK, I want to develop my own BW film, I am a digital guru, who is finding out that film looks way better :)

What will I need to process 4x5 film negatives? I dont want to print them just yet, I will get to that later, can someone point me to a list of instructions/materials supplies needed?

All I have in inventory so far is a darkroom timer I picked up at the thrift store for 5 bucks...

Sorry to ask such a multi level complex question!

Go to Ilford's website below, and look at the "Getting Started" section.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=16

[Bill_1856]

If film looks better than Digital to you, then you need to work more on your digital. There's no magic bullit.

[Brian Ellis]

If you're not making prints how would you know what "film" looks like? Making the negative isn't an end in itself, it's a step on the way to making a print.

[Michael Gordon]

I have a very thorough video online (http://vimeo.com/7459143) that details continuous agitation daylight rotary developing. My developer of choice is Rollo Pyro, although you can adapt this system and developing time to your own developer/film. Best of luck!

[WootSK]

For starters without a darkroom, you will need at least the below stuff for developing films. If they sounds a bit technical, you will need a bit of help from google and wiki.
1. Changing bag (You can DIY one from some black garbage bag and rubber band, they are needed for people without a Darkroom)
2. Some form of volume measuring equipment for liquid
3. A full set developing tank
4. Chemicals:
* E-6 is for slides (You will need to read manual for timing and temperature, mostly are at 38 degree)
* C-41 is for Negative (You will need to read manual for timing and temperature, mostly are at 38 degree)
* B&W developer, Stop Bath and fixer for B&W films (You can refer to http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?doc=pushproc for timing and temperature of each developer)
5. Timer, can be a Handphone.
6. Wetting Agent, hardener bla bla bla... (Optional)

If you have any doubt on how to use them and other stuff, google and youtube for video.

[Greg Blank]

Its a good video too. I had a recent customer point it out to me.


I have a very thorough video online (http://vimeo.com/7459143) that details continuous agitation daylight rotary developing. My developer of choice is Rollo Pyro, although you can adapt this system and developing time to your own developer/film. Best of luck!

[John Kasaian]

The easiest and most boring is to develop in trays. You could use a Unicolor (click on the LF Homepage on the blue banner at the top of this page for a link to Gray Wolf Phillip's article) or maybe a "daylight" tank (avoid the Yankee---avoid the Yankee--avoid the Yankee. One more time: Avoid the Yankee) You might also find some hard rubber tanks and hangers. Aside from something to develop your film in and a dark place to load, unload, and do the developing, you'll need:
a graduate for measuring and mixing chemicals,
a plastic to stir stick to stir with (a swizzle stick) if mixing powdered chemicals
bottles to store your chemicals, a plastic funnel to fill your bottles,
maybe gloves if you go the tray route, and
clothes pins to hang up your film to dry.
A Thermometer for taking the temps of your chemicals.
If you are using a processor, little plastic measuring cups I find are handy (mine are Betty Crockers from Walmart)
And of course a timer which you already have.

If you don't have a local camera store that supports darkroom-istas you can order all this stuff from someplace like Freestyle.
Have fun!

[nolindan]

If you want a minimalist approach all you need is fixer - S. Thiosulfate. It is sold at photo, aquarium and pool supply stores.

Developer you can make from instant coffee, baking soda and a vitamin C tablet -- Google for 'caffenol'. You can make the 'S. Carbonate' by baking the baking soda [I]baking[/B] soda and made to be baked].
http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/caffenol.php
Apug thread on making S. Carbonate (http://www.apug.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-28341.html)

Stop bath is a 1:3 dillution of clear vinegar.

A drop of dish detergent and a splash of isopropyl alcohol in a quart of distilled water makes an adequate final wash so you don't get spots on the negative.

A few glass baking dishes or tupperware containers will work great as trays.

[John Kasaian]

If you want a minimalist approach all you need is fixer - S. Thiosulfate. It is sold at photo, aquarium and pool supply stores.

Developer you can make from instant coffee, baking soda and a vitamin C tablet -- Google for 'caffenol'. You can make the 'S. Carbonate' by baking the baking soda [I]baking[/B] soda and made to be baked].
http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/caffenol.php
Apug thread on making S. Carbonate (http://www.apug.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-28341.html)

Stop bath is a 1:3 dillution of clear vinegar.

A drop of dish detergent and a splash of isopropyl alcohol in a quart of distilled water makes an adequate final wash so you don't get spots on the negative.

A few glass baking dishes or tupperware containers will work great as trays.
Cool! What do you use for fixer? I'm getting hungry!:D

[nickademusss]

If you're not making prints how would you know what "film" looks like? Making the negative isn't an end in itself, it's a step on the way to making a print.

I would like to be able to scan the negs, I have had the local lab do it and they are very pricey, they however dont have an enlarger, all they do is scan it and print, although the 9,000 dollar scanner does a fine job.

As to staying with digital, I plan to keep using it, I just want the control the LF camera can give me, and the fine grain of film I get from my medium format TLR only larger :)

Thanks for all the links I now have much research data, and will look over it very carefully.

[nickademusss]

If film looks better than Digital to you, then you need to work more on your digital. There's no magic bullit.


I am aware that theirs no magic bullet, I love the way the LF slows me down, I also know the limits of the movements or rather lack of movements of my digital cameras. I also want an un-deletable media for my family pictures.

I am now the keeper of the family stash of negatives and old photo's. The photo's produced from the negatives that are almost 50 years old look as crisp as the day they where taken. I want the same for my photo's.

[cps]

Welcome to the club. I just followed this path for more or less exactly the same reasons: I shoot MF with an RB67, and up to 6x12 with a roll film back or 4x5 sheets on my Linhof Technika. It all gets scanned on a v700. It is immediately obvious (to me at least) when I look at the results in Lightroom and my prints why I am fiddling with LF and MF film and scanning instead of working more with my DSLR.

What I don't have is a darkroom, or even a place in my house that a) could be reliably dark, and b) that I would want to spend any amount of time in. So, I've worked up a pretty simple and relatively integrated daylight processing approach similar to what Wootsk and John Kasaian are giving you recipes for - so I would follow that advice. On my way to work I have a decent color lab that will do c-41 in less than a day for a relatively modest sum, so I have not attempted to do color processing at home - the economics don't really work out. I have focused therefore on B&W.

My added 2 cents:
- I use a Patterson 3-reel tank - it is an old standby that is simple and pretty reliable
- It will hold two standard Patterson film reels when set for 120 film - so I have my 120 needs covered
- I also have the MOD sheet film insert for Patterson tanks sold on Ebay by Mod Photographic - so that has me covered on the 4x5 sheets
- With one tank I can handle all my film types in daylight, very simple and doesn't take up a lot of space in the closet
- A nice to have item is the little rubber Patterson hose, which I use as a circulation washer when connected to the tank. I have used this approach as a stop step before fixing and that has worked great. So, you don't even necessarily need stop bath at the outset.
- I haven't tried the foodie approach to film development, but a single bottle of Adonal will go a very long way if you are mixing it 1:50 like many people do. May not be the developer of choice in all circumstances (can highlight grain), but it is very economical and often gives very very good results.
- Cheap changing bags only cost maybe $20-$30, so it's not a big investment. I have been doing enough loading and processing lately that I have been contemplating a changing tent - which I can imagine would make the process a little less cumbersome, but costs more like ten times as much (so I still don't have one).
- I recently added another tank and some more reels so that I could run more film through in an evening than if I had just one tank.
- My cheap digital watch has nice multi-interval timer features that make it a great processing clock

It is a sort of fun process and I can chat with others while doing it, so it is not the banishment that the darkroom can be.

Chris

[MMELVIS]

CPS how much fluid do you use when using the Patterson Tanks and the Mod Photographic sheet holder? The Mod Photographic looks very interesting. How many sheets do you develop at one time?

[John Kasaian]

Probably the most important thing you'll need
for shooting LF, is a sense of humor. Really!

[nickademusss]

Thanks all!

Much research and I bought the chemicals, trays, and other odds and ends and this is my first self developed negative :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickademusss/5794864616/in/photostream

Shot on Illford delta 100....

I am taking it in steps, first get my exposures looking good, next process the negatives good, then go a step farther and get an enlarger and do the rest :)

will do step two for a bit longer I think.....

[MichaelR2011]

Good Morning all,
I too am new to 4 x 5, but have been developing and printing 35mm and MF for some time. As I do not have a darkroom at home, and rent time in one for printing, I use a Patterson daylight tank and a changing bag for film developing. Now that I am making the leap to large format, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts about whether to buy a 3 reel Patterson tank and a MOD insert for 4 x 5, to get a HP combiplan tank, or if there was an alternative. Given that I don't have a home darkroom, tray development is not really a viable option for me.
Thanks
Michael

[cyrus]

Good Morning all,
I too am new to 4 x 5, but have been developing and printing 35mm and MF for some time. As I do not have a darkroom at home, and rent time in one for printing, I use a Patterson daylight tank and a changing bag for film developing. Now that I am making the leap to large format, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts about whether to buy a 3 reel Patterson tank and a MOD insert for 4 x 5, to get a HP combiplan tank, or if there was an alternative. Given that I don't have a home darkroom, tray development is not really a viable option for me.
Thanks
Michael

Either would work I guess but I hate them both and have never had good results with the Combiplan. Tray develpment really doesn't need a dedicated darkroom -- just a bathroom or closet with a towel covering the crack under the door will do just fine. Heck, weegee used his car trunk!

PS you can also use the old "taco packing" trick for developing 4x5 sheet film in a paterson tank without having a special insert, but make sure you know which side of the film is the emulsion side since that side has to be exposed to the developer solution.

PPS: I've always wondered about these darkrooms that pot-growers use to grow at home:
https://www.aghydroponics.com/DarkRoom-II-Pro-DR150-p/tent-drp205.htm

Sorry, I guess I shouldn't assume theyre used for pot. No, they're used for secretly growing things in the dark that you would not want others to find out about. Quite unlike pot. Nothing at all like growing pot. Nope.

[MichaelR2011]

Thanks. Perhaps I will avoid the combiplan and try the taco method first. Have you had bad experiences with the MOD insert?

[cyrus]

sorry I never tried them. just used a bathroom.

[nickademusss]

I would think the pot growing thing a bit pricy for what you could make or even buy a developing tent, I too use the small down stairs bathroom, built a shelf for the trays and it works well, black foam at the door seals light well.

My 15 dollar used Gralab timer works well, it was a find at the local thrift store.