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David Low
13-May-2011, 13:47
I have just acquired a Unicolor print drum (5x7 inch size) which I intend to use to process 5x7 and half plate black and white film. I will be using FP4 and HP5 film and Ilfosol 3 developer, probably at 1+9 dilution.

The drum came without any instructions so I am unclear as to how much developer I should use for a single sheet.

Does anyone have experience of using a hand-rolling print drum method and can offer advice on how much liquid is necessary for good results?

And are there any particular tips on what to do and not to do to make this method work?

sully75
13-May-2011, 15:37
I don't think there is a 5x7 size? Do you have an 8x10 drum? That would fit two 5x7s. I could be wrong.

You might find that a roller base for these is really cheap (less than $20). Very convenient. It's a lot of rolling.

David Low
13-May-2011, 16:15
No, it is definitely not big enough for 8x10. The overall height is only 5 inches and is just under 4 inches from side to side. A sheet of 5x7 film goes just over half the way round inside, and it looks as though two 4x5s would probably fit at the same time if they stayed in place and did not slip round on top of each other.

Currently they are being advertised on *bay uk by Spa Photo for print processing with minimal chemicals, and this one has just been delivered from them.

It looks as though around 100 -200 ml would be enough with continuous agitation (rolling) but would just like some confirmation before trying it for the first time. Re-inventing the wheel etc!

:)

sully75
13-May-2011, 17:18
well...I'll be. I didn't know they made one that small.

I usually use 400ml in the 11x14 drum, which is overkill, I think. 200 should be fine in the 5x7 I would guess, as long as you are continually agitating.

John Kasaian
13-May-2011, 17:29
Fill the drum with water andlay it on it's side so the excess drains into the sink, then pour whats left in a graduate.
Whatever you do, never add more chems than that!;)

David Low
15-May-2011, 14:14
I did the fill it up test and it holds 350ml max, and so then tried it out with 200ml of developer. This worked out ok so will probably stick with it. At 1+9 dilution the developing time was only 5.30min, and doing it manually was quite relaxing just rolling the tank back and forward.

fsibold
15-May-2011, 16:44
I use a Cibachrome 8x10 drum to process 8x10 film. 100mL is enough to process.

sully75
15-May-2011, 18:46
I'm looking for suggestions on how to wash when you are using drums. My film comes out totally schmutzed up, I think with fixer. My next attempt is washing with hangers in a tank after drum processing.

willwilson
15-May-2011, 22:22
I have been processing 4x5 and 8x10 with unicolor drums for about 8 years. They work great for both sizes. I do think a motor base is key. If you don't have a motor base you might as well be tray processing. You just won't have the consistency to control the process rolling the drums by hand. That said, you can do it, but I would not choose to torture myself that way.

Here is a link to a copy of the original instructions. http://willwilson.com/unicolorinstructions.html

Instructions say 2oz (59ml) minimum for the 8x10 drum. I usually use 200ml or more developer, especially if your table is not perfectly level. You can get about 400ml in the 8x10. You will also need more chemistry if you are using a dilute developer.

Washing: I wash 4x5 film in the 8x10 drum 3 times for 3 minutes on the motor base each time with 300 to 400ml of clean water. When I remove the film from the drum I immerse each sheet in a tray of dilute photoflow and hang to dry. I typically use delta 100 processed in Xtol > Hypam > Wash > Photoflow. I haven't had any issues with my film being underwashed. In addition, I have used a variety of film and developer combinations with success.

Do be careful loading multiple sheets in the same row using a homemade divider, as the sheets can slide together during development or fixing and ruin each other.

Once you master the unicolor drum you can really develop film quickly and easily. I regularly process four full drums at once.

David Low
16-May-2011, 12:36
Interesting that the drum that I have just bought is much more simple than the drums illustrated in the instructions above. No internal dividers or rubber seal of any sort and even the top filler is different. But it does work ok with one sheet of 5x7 at a time, and I will probably use it for single sheets of 4x5s as well.

And will try 100ml next time.

Even rolling it by hand it is very convenient, just load it up in a changing bag, mix up the developer and away you go. What do you think, could it even replace digital??

sully75
16-May-2011, 14:18
I think you'll find processing one sheet at a time can be a bit slow.

jeroldharter
16-May-2011, 16:26
It won't take long before you are doing a search for "3006."

David Low
16-May-2011, 16:29
I think you'll find processing one sheet at a time can be a bit slow.

Maybe, but I am not generally in a hurry. And I like the facility of being able to process just one negative whenever I want without any great fuss.

But if I also get the chance to pick up a tube which will take multiple sheets then I probably will.

:)

Lynn Jones
16-May-2011, 16:48
Regarding film washing in drums: Fill the drum with water and leave it for a minute or two, then dump. Now Put in a bit more water than you would use for chemicals, runi it for 2 minutes, repeat this for a total of 6 drum washes, this is archival.

If you are using drum processing of fiber based papers, use 13 changes of water.

The above are archival and use surprisingly little water. If yo just ran water continuously into a drum or tank, the efficiency would suck, it would not be archival.

Lynn

sully75
16-May-2011, 19:37
Hi Lynn,

I wondered about washing in the drum. It seemed to me like the film doesn't get a lot of chemical on the back side of the film because it's touching the drum. I guess you are not finding that to be true? Most of my schmutz is on the back of the film.

David Low
17-May-2011, 13:23
:confused:
Regarding film washing in drums: Fill the drum with water and leave it for a minute or two, then dump. Now Put in a bit more water than you would use for chemicals, runi it for 2 minutes, repeat this for a total of 6 drum washes, this is archival.

If you are using drum processing of fiber based papers, use 13 changes of water.

The above are archival and use surprisingly little water. If yo just ran water continuously into a drum or tank, the efficiency would suck, it would not be archival.

Lynn

How good do you think that running water continuously into the drum for about 20 minutes or so, with a tip out and start from scratch every 2 or 3 minutes would be?

My easy method while I am tidying up in the kitchen afterwards!

:confused:

SeanEsopenko
19-May-2011, 16:48
I'm looking for suggestions on how to wash when you are using drums. My film comes out totally schmutzed up, I think with fixer. My next attempt is washing with hangers in a tank after drum processing.

I'm not exactly sure how well the unicolor drum holds the film in comparison to my jobo drum & 6-sheet reel that I use to process 4x5 film. When I wash the film I use the same lazy "ilford" method I use when processing roll film. I fill the tank up completely, invert 5 times. Dump, fill again. Invert 10 times. Dump, fill again. Invert 20 times, dump. It's heavy to do with the 2 reel drum but I find it works well.

troymcneilly
26-Apr-2012, 15:48
:confused:

How good do you think that running water continuously into the drum for about 20 minutes or so, with a tip out and start from scratch every 2 or 3 minutes would be?

My easy method while I am tidying up in the kitchen afterwards!

:confused:

troymcneilly
26-Apr-2012, 15:57
After getting frusterated with the idea of using a soft ply rubber eraser as the unicolor sheet film spacer and find after a process run, destroyed film due to it splitting from its softness. I contacted this company out if Illinois gace them a blue print of what I needed being this spacer since they are no longer obtainable, or so I have found. This is all the information given on a quote if anyone else is interested in obtaining what I tried to make as close a replica of the original using an engineering program. Here is the reply with all info of quote.
Below is quotation for the products you requested.

FYI, we use metric system and closest thickness of .09"(2.286mm) ring is 2.5mm (.0984")

If you have any question, please let me know. Thank you.




RFQ#: 042512-TM


Material: Neoprene Rubber

Hardness: 65 +/-5 Duro

Color: Black




DWG#: V-shape

Dimensions: Based on your drawing. (MM)

Quantity: 10pcs

Unit Price: @$17.78 (Total $177.80) Included S&H




DWG#: Ring

Dimensions : Based on your drawing (Inch) with 2.5mm Thickness

Quantity: 10pcs

Unit Price: @$10.30 (Total $103.00) Included S&H




Lead Time: 12 Business Days

Terms: Visa/Master/Amex




Regards,

Moriteq USA

Naoko Alborz

1-800-466-1960

naoko.alborz@moritequsa.com

troymcneilly
26-Apr-2012, 16:10
After getting frusterated with the idea of using a soft ply rubber eraser as the unicolor sheet film spacer and find after a process run, destroyed film due to it splitting from its softness. I contacted this company out if Illinois gace them a blue print of what I needed being this spacer since they are no longer obtainable, or so I have found. This is all the information given on a quote if anyone else is interested in obtaining what I tried to make as close a replica of the original using an engineering program. Here is the reply with all info of quote.
Below is quotation for the products you requested.

FYI, we use metric system and closest thickness of .09"(2.286mm) ring is 2.5mm (.0984")

If you have any question, please let me know. Thank you.




RFQ#: 042512-TM


Material: Neoprene Rubber

Hardness: 65 +/-5 Duro

Color: Black




DWG#: V-shape

Dimensions: Based on your drawing. (MM)

Quantity: 10pcs

Unit Price: @$17.78 (Total $177.80) Included S&H




DWG#: Ring

Dimensions : Based on your drawing (Inch) with 2.5mm Thickness

Quantity: 10pcs

Unit Price: @$10.30 (Total $103.00) Included S&H




Lead Time: 12 Business Days

Terms: Visa/Master/Amex




Regards,

Moriteq USA

Naoko Alborz

1-800-466-1960

naoko.alborz@moritequsa.com

troymcneilly
26-Apr-2012, 16:12
One other thing for ease of communication if and when contacting this company for either the ring or film spacer use unicolor 4x5 sheet film drum in heading. The gentelman will then know what you speak of considering my guess is there may be a language barrier.