Help!!

[Ash]

Last weekend I went to France. It appears I traveled back in time as well, as the glass plate negatives that came home with me don't look so contemporary...

Here is one where some things are very clear, for example La Ronceraie, which appears to be a tourist spot in France.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/laronceraie.jpg


Could all those wise on fashion please help me date when this could be? I have more and would like to put an era to them.


The plates are just smaller than 5x4, must be quarter-plate.

[Joanna Carter]

La Ronceraie translates as "the bramble patch". There are a few places called La Ronceraie in France but they are all far from the sea. My guess is that it is simply the name given to the "cabine de bain", which frames the picture :)

If it is a bathing machine, then this article (http://www.bikiniscience.com/chronology/1700-1900_SS/1700-1900.html) seems to place the arrival of such machines, in France, at around the first half of the 19th century and were in common use in some areas until around the end of that century.

[Steve M Hostetter]

I could almost see these ppl boarding the Titanic so I'd say late 1800's - early 1900's

[Joanna Carter]

I could almost see these ppl boarding the Titanic so I'd say late 1800's - early 1900's
The Titanic was launched during the reign of George V (1911) and sank in 1912. The costumes are far more reminiscent of the Victorian era, which ended in 1901, after which Edward VII took to the throne.

[Ash]

Had a flick through On Photography by Stieglitz, many people in photos from the 1880's appear to be dressed the same.

Here's a few more that might help...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/Untitled-29copy.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/Untitled-41copy.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/Untitled-43copy.jpg

[Ole Tjugen]

Those are later. The cloche hat in the first of the three is very 1920's.

[Struan Gray]

First pic: the man on our left has a collar that says 1900-1910 to me. The older women and the little girl's dresses 1890-1900. The picture doesn't scream orthochromatic emulsion, and if it is a commercial panchromatic plate, that would put it after the turn of the century.

The later set are undoubtedly later :-) I agree with Ole on the hat. The mens suits in the middle pic are very Lloyd George 1920s too. The blouses on the older women in the third pic, and the detailing on the girl's dress, are typical arts and crafts from the 1920s or perhaps early 1930s.

[Ash]

So the plates range 1890-1930 at the most? There's a car in the background on another, and a photo of a photo with a car, so they must be later ones as well.

Apparently the cloche hats were 1908-1933. Considering how much this family traveled it could be on the earlier side of those numbers, if they were buying fashion early as well.

[Struan Gray]

If you want to contact real experts, there is a Western England branch of the Costume Society whose contacts seem to be based in Wiltshire

http://costumesociety.org.uk/Webfiles/Links/Default.aspx

Shoes and hats are often as big a giveaway as clothes. Cars are good, but live on long after they are fashionable.

[Ash]

Brillant thanks Struan.

Found one with 1928 pencilled on the emulsion side, can't read the location.

[cjbroadbent]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/Untitled-41copy.jpg

Zoom in on the girl's box camera. It looks like a N.2 Brownie, introduced in 1900.

[Ash]

Yes, it's a brownie.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/228084_10150178801094725_280018619724_6753753_6849409_n.jpg

How about this one? Much more interesting to work out who/where/why.

[cjbroadbent]

Martini-action rifle in the corner, bullet holes in the frame. A precursor of Lucio Fontana.

[SergeiR]

How about this one? Much more interesting to work out who/where/why.

Dear god..i hope its a copy he is got there , b/c i remember reproduction on this painting in one of art albums we had, when i was a kid.

[Ash]

Sergei do you know the exact painting? It looks similar to many of the noblemen and kings of France/Spain in the past few hundred years.

[SergeiR]

Sergei do you know the exact painting? It looks similar to many of the noblemen and kings of France/Spain in the past few hundred years.

I am pretty sure thats the one, b/c i can somewhat recal colours on it. I have very good visual memory so i am pretty sure thats the one - i do remember that stache ;)

But these albums are right now in Russia and i am in States.. aint going to be able to check it for real for about month, till i get back home to do workshops and run wild. I will try to remember to check it out, if i didnt find it on web by then 8)

[Ash]

Thanks. The pictures are taken all over Southern France. Considering a few have them skiing, they may have traveled as far as the Alps as well.

[Ash]

bump for any more info. thanks

[SergeiR]

I tried to ask friend who is art-inclined.. We narrowed period of painting and area, but for final image looks like i will have to dig through books back home, wont be fast. sorry :(

[Ash]

I'm happy to wait, thanks ;)

[Struan Gray]

I'd guess Louis XIII of France from the face, but can't place the actual painting.

The pose and general style of portrait was very common all over Europe. I've seen versions showing Louis XIII, James II of England, Charles XI of Sweden and many, many more (see the Earl of Strafford (http://www.google.se/search?um=1&hl=sv&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=3VbMTYO0DsTftAbo0PmlAQ&ved=0CDUQBSgA&q=earl+of+strafford&spell=1&biw=1024&bih=709) for a non-king) The marshal's baton suggests an aristocrat, but that doesn't narrow the field much. The all-black armour and the lace cuff say first half of the C17th rather than the late C16th, which also fits with the moustache.

Louis XIII looked like that, and most of the pictures have a French Connection. But Google at least doesn't have that portrait. The cuff would cinch it for anyone who's seen the actual painting.

[Ash]

Yea, the body could be anyone's. The neg isn't reversed, but most paintings I'd found have the white going over the other shoulder.


It appears to be a variation of this... http://www.baroque-in-art.org/King-Louis-XIII-1655.html