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gliderbee
1-May-2011, 13:35
Please have a look at the two scanned images: they come from the same 8x10 Toyo holder (side 1 and side 2), were exposed one after the other and developed together in a Jobo 3005.

They both show a nearly exact same pattern of light leak, appartently starting from the same place at opposite side of the darkslide opening; if it were a light leak in the holder, I would expect it to be a "mirrored" pattern (meaning the pattern on side 2 would be a mirror of the one on side 1) instead of the same pattern, or am I wrong ? Does this mean the leak was there while the darkslide was out and not before ? Otherwise, the leak would have occured on both sides at the same time and would be mirrored, right ?

Furthermore, about 5/6th down from the top, the image is clearly more exposed, again on both pictures at the exact same height, but more noticable on the first picture (the scan does not show this very good) .. How is this possible ?

It was the first time I used this film holder.

http://home.scarlet.be/~sejmw/sonia1.jpg

http://home.scarlet.be/~sejmw/sonia2.jpg

Thanks for your help,
Stefan.

Joanna Carter
1-May-2011, 13:56
Looking at the angle of the main illumination, it looks like it could either be flare, or, at least a light leak in the bellows???

johnielvis
1-May-2011, 14:01
not the holder--it's the camera---probably something between the camera back and the holder at the bottom of the camera---leaf??? something fell down there and got caught at the light seal between the camera back and the holder---if it was the holder, it'd only be the one side---if it was the film messed up, you wouldn't have the black borders.

check your camera backfor foreign debris or damage

Stephane
1-May-2011, 14:03
My bet is that the bellows at the rear were not properly attached, due to the fog line at the bottom.
A pinhole would not make that line (I think).
What camera? Sinar?

gliderbee
1-May-2011, 14:13
I just checked the camera, but did not notice anything special there. It all seems to close fine. I did not check with a holder inserted though. I'll check that tomorrow (the holder is is in use right now, as I've put some unexposed paper in it and had it in the sun this afternoon to check for leaks; I still have to develop the paper).

How about the darker part at the bottom ? Any ideas ?

Thanks,
Stefan.

gliderbee
1-May-2011, 14:22
My bet is that the bellows at the rear were not properly attached, due to the fog line at the bottom.
A pinhole would not make that line (I think).
What camera? Sinar?

No, Toyo 810M. I just checked the bellows (I've never loosened them and never had a problem before); I don't see any leaks.

Come to think of it: it was with a 19" lens and from a short distance, so the bellows were rather stretched; maybe they did not close enough anymore when stretched like that. I'll have to check that.

johnielvis
1-May-2011, 14:34
well--good luck---but it can't be the holder I'd say---if so, the light would be coming in and fog the edges too---the edges are black--so it's not a holder light leak---also--if the holder has a leak, say with a cracked darkslide---you'd have to have two identical cracks....the light pattern is identical--would be very conincidental to have the holder with two identical flaws on both sides---positioned just right---on on one side and another on the other side....maybe the lensboard is leaking too....but light is getting in--looks like unfocused light streaming in from somewhere in the camera

gliderbee
1-May-2011, 14:39
well--good luck---but it can't be the holder I'd say---if so, the light would be coming in and fog the edges too---the edges are black--so it's not a holder light leak---also--if the holder has a leak, say with a cracked darkslide---you'd have to have two identical cracks....the light pattern is identical--would be very conincidental to have the holder with two identical flaws on both sides---positioned just right---on on one side and another on the other side....maybe the lensboard is leaking too....but light is getting in--looks like unfocused light streaming in from somewhere in the camera

I agree with you on the holder probably not having a problem. I'll check in daylight, first setting up the camera again as it was, the removing the lensboard to look at the back for leaks, and then the back to look at the lensboard for leaks.

I'm not sure if I should hope to find something or not; maybe I was just a bit clumsy in inserting the holder (but then I should have been clumsy twice ...).

Jehu
1-May-2011, 14:57
The dark part on the bottom looks like correct exposure to me. That means it was shadowed from the errant light. Since the bottom is the top as it sits in the camera, I would suspect that the light leak is in the bellows near the back left on top. Perhaps where the bellows meet the camera back.

Mark Woods
1-May-2011, 18:35
Hello Stefan, put the "bad" neg back in the camera to evaluate the problem. Contrary to what has been said, I would look at your lens board and see if there is a missing screw below the lens, or some other anomaly. It clearly is not the holder since the black area on the edges are not exposed. Also, since there is a specific pattern, that leads me to believe that there is a reflection in there too. You could put a bright flashlight inside of the bellows and look at the lens board or vis versa. Good luck, keep us posted.

reyno bundit
2-May-2011, 14:08
light leak in dev drum

Lachlan 717
2-May-2011, 14:11
light leak in dev drum

Nup. The film edge is not affected.

This issue occurred at exposure.

Brian Ellis
2-May-2011, 14:36
I don't know about the darker part at the bottom, it's hard to know whether it's correctly exposed and the rest of the image is overexposed or vice versa. But the bright stuff looks very similar to an effect I've gotten when I put the holder in the camera, pulled the dark slide while the camera was in direct sunlight, and left the camera sitting there for a few minutes before making the exposure. Did you by any chance pull the dark slide partially up and leave the camera sitting like that for a while?

I've also had a small hole in a lensboard. The result of it didn't look anything like this. And I've had a bellows that wasn't properly attached to the camera back. It too didn't produce the effect you have here. However, the fact that the line is perfectly straight indicates something mechanical to me, like the bottom of a dark slide or the edge of the bellows frame or the bellows itself, something like that. The line seems too straight to be caused by a random light leak IMHO.

nolindan
2-May-2011, 18:42
I would say the holder was not properly seated in the camera.

The sun is shining down through a crack between the holder and the camera back. The top edge of the holder is casting a shadow along the bottom of the image/top of the negative.

gliderbee
2-May-2011, 21:57
light leak in dev drum

that would not explain the similarity of the light leak on the two negs: they are in separate "holes" in the drum.

gliderbee
2-May-2011, 22:03
yesterday evening, I put the lens back on the camera and I put a flashlight inside the bellows ... When stretched the same way to focus as when I took those pictures, the bellows show holes at nearly the whole length !

It has all very small pinholes at the top of each fold, left and right (I didn't even bother to really check the underside, but at a quick glance I could see some there also).

Since it was the first time I took a picture with the bellows stretched like this, it might explain why I had no problem before: my previous pictures with this camera were all with a wide-angle lens and the bellows nealy folded completely, so the holes were covered.

The idea of Nilindan seems to make sense to me, as it both explains the light leak and the straight border with different exposure.

I don't really know if all these small pinholes in a row explain the leaks as they show on my pictures and the difference in exposure (with the straight line), but I don't think it makes sens to look further until this problem is solved, so I'm going to buy new bellows first.

Anybody who knows if these are any good ? :
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270703203542&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_2502wt_902

Thanks,
Stefan.

johnielvis
2-May-2011, 23:41
there it is----if this pic was shot in sunlight, bellows are the problem---just put the dark cloth around the bellows next time and pull the darkslide...quickly shoot...put the darkslide back in....worked for me---best this works in a darker studio when firing strobes---then the sunlight isn't ALWAYS streaming in.

I used black tape on my bellows -- I suggest that first---or the black vinyl fix-it stuff---thick black paint--whatever---new bellows for this is an overkill for pinholes.

engl
3-May-2011, 03:42
Black taping on the corners is going to work as a short-term fix, but if you have pinholes along the full length of the bellows, all that tape is going to make the bellows thicker. It might affect folding of the camera, and will affect minimum bellows draw and movements with wide lenses.

Getting a new bellows is worthwhile, for your own use as well as second hand value.

gliderbee
4-May-2011, 14:01
I'll buy a new bellows just to be sure, but I would like to try to repair the old one.

I've heard about something like a fluid, used for isolating electrical wires; as I understood, you can "paint" it over the pinholes and it would harden a bit like rubber or soft plastic. I have no brandname or anything. Does anybody know what product I'm talking about ?

EDIT: never mind: I've found it: Liquid electrical tape (Plasti Dip).

Thanks,

Stefan.

gliderbee
14-Feb-2012, 23:31
I accidently rediscovered this thread and realize I didn't give any feedback anymore:

I used the Plasti Dip to "paint" the pinholes closed, and it works beautifully. I already forgot I repaired those bellows. Great product and highly recommended as a first try to repair: it's cheap, it doesn't stiffen the bellows, easy to apply ...

Thanks (be it a bit late) all for your help !

Stefan.

Jim Noel
15-Feb-2012, 07:36
I would say the holder was not properly seated in the camera.

The sun is shining down through a crack between the holder and the camera back. The top edge of the holder is casting a shadow along the bottom of the image/top of the negative.

I agree that this may be the explanation. If the springs are beginning to weaken it is easy to insert the holder, make the exposure and not realize the springs are not pushing the holder against the back of the camera.

UberSquid
16-Feb-2012, 11:13
I agree that this may be the explanation. If the springs are beginning to weaken it is easy to insert the holder, make the exposure and not realize the springs are not pushing the holder against the back of the camera.

Might want to read page two then...