BTZS Expo/Dev Software Survey [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

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frednewman

25-Apr-2011, 16:15

Do you have a moment to take a short survey? If so, we'd like to hear from you.

This short survey will help us understand how you use BTZS software and the BTZS system. Your answers will help us with future planning.

Please go to this link to complete the survey:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/view...ZKMkE6MQ#gid=0

If you have any additional comments that don't fit the survey, feel free to reply to this forum message or email me.

Thanks,

Fred Newman

Jason Greenberg Motamedi

25-Apr-2011, 16:54

Fred, the link doesn't seem to work.

Shen45

25-Apr-2011, 18:23

Same here Fred.

Steve

sanking

25-Apr-2011, 18:30

Link no good.

Sandy

Keith Pitman

25-Apr-2011, 19:33

Here's the survey link from APUG: https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?hl=en&pli=1&formkey=dGJuRGRMUUt2THBoQXZvQ21iajZKMkE6MQ#gid=0

It worked.

frednewman

25-Apr-2011, 20:58

I'll fix the link tomorrow.

Fred Newman

frednewman

25-Apr-2011, 21:47

Hi Keith

Thanks for fixing the link.

Fred Newman

sanking

25-Apr-2011, 21:52

Hi Keith

Thanks for fixing the link.

Fred Newman

Fred,

How about making life simple and have Winplotter ported over to the MAC. Phil wrote it for MAC and it is a very simple program, why the hell do we have to keep working it with a PC, or with emulation on MAC. How difficult could it be to port to MAC? I am sick of using this program with a PC!!!

Sandy

frednewman

25-Apr-2011, 22:04

For those unfamiliar with the expo/dev software, please see how it works on a palm pilot on our instructional videos on youtube.com. To find the videos please do a search with the word "viewcamerastore". The information would be helpful for our programer, as we have had requests for the expo/dev software on an iphone and other more modern devices.

Thanks

Fred Newman

jeroldharter

25-Apr-2011, 22:21

Submitted.

Right now, I use a simplified version BTZS. I used WinPlotter to come up with data for SBR 5,6,7,8,9 and then round off field data to those options. I made up a table to account for film speed differences and use incident exposure values to come up with the proper exposure information and development times. It works well.

I hope you update the WinPlotter software. Ideally, it would be compatible with both Windows and Mac. The ExpoDev would need to be compatible with a range of devices, but certainly iWhatevers.

frednewman

25-Apr-2011, 22:31

Hi Sandy

Sorry you're tired of the plotter program for pc. Phil Davis ran the plotter program with an emulator program on his mac. He seemed happy to have a more modern version of the plotter than the original. The plotter for pc is a much better program than the original. I've been running it on my imac with an emulator.

We're lucky that we found a programer who is going to try to do an expo/dev program for a modern device like the iphone. That's why our programmer is looking to see what information we can get from the survey.

Fred Newman

Ross Chambers

26-Apr-2011, 01:35

Completely lost interest when Mac compatibility was ignored. No I'm not going to pay out for an iPhone either, I'm interested in analogue photography, not fooling about with endlessly updated software.

david.jade

3-May-2011, 17:18

Fred,

How difficult could it be to port to MAC?

Sandy

Since this is a request that I've seen a few times over the years, I'll provide an answer: how hard would it be to port WinPlotter to the MAC.

The WinPlotter program is written in C++ using the Microsoft MFC framework. WinPlotter was a complete, clean-room development effort as Phil had lost the source to the original Plotter for Mac (which was written in a dialect of BASIC if I remember right from our conversations). WinPlotter was originally started in 1997 or 1998 by another programmer and abandoned for a few years already when I took it over around 2000. It had several nasty and very subtle calculation bugs and many missing features to add. This process to get WinPlotter to where it is today took many, many hours (i.e. hundreds of development hours) and I am no slacker when it comes to coding after having had a very long career in professional software development at Microsoft.

The MFC framework is a complete framework that not only encompasses UI layers but also data structures right down the to file format used when saving and loading files. This framework is completely incompatible with OSX and OSX's development tools. This means that the WinPlotter file formats cannot even be loaded without reverse engineering their internal formats. Beyond even that though, porting WinPlotter to OSX would be a complete ground-up re-write. There is simply nothing of any consequence to port. Even the internal calculations are steeped in MFC data structure. To make matters worst, the code I inherited is completely undocumented for the most part.

A few times I have been asked this question of porting and my feeling has always been, if someone wants to create a version of Plotter for the Mac it would be best to start with Phil's book. Everything one would need is in there. This is what the original programmer of WinPlotter had to do, although we had Phil as a resource to ask questions.

At the time WinPlotter was hatched, OSX wasn't the market it is today (and even that is tiny compared to Windows today - sorry, I know that the Mac is loved by many artists). Actually OSX wasn't even a market yet back then - Phil used OS 8 or 9 I recall (PowerPC days with a Windows emulator!). Couple that with the decline in analog/film LF users and the hundreds of development hours necessary to complete such a project and well, I'm sorry to say - it will only ever be done as a labor of love by someone who really wants to do it for the Mac. There probably are not enough customers in the world to even cover the cost of the tools necessary to write a new version of Plotter for any platform.

This was how WinPlotter came to be, I'm a Windows user (and programmer) and I wanted to have it for myself so I offered my time. It was a privilege working with Phil to bring WinPlotter to market along with creating updated versions of ExpoDev for Palm (and the short-lived PocketPC version). I know he was very happy to have a modern version of Plotter, running on Windows, despite being strictly a Mac user.

David Jade

md99

3-May-2011, 17:36

David-
Plotter is one of my all-time favorite programs. Used it extensively. Thanks very much for a great bit of software.
Mike

jeroldharter

3-May-2011, 17:40

David-
Plotter is one of my all-time favorite programs. Used it extensively. Thanks very much for a great bit of software.
Mike

Ditto.

JohnN

4-May-2011, 03:03

Great program, David. It has helped me tremendously, even though I am a Mac man. Thank God for Boot Camp is all I can say.

I'm excited about the possibility of having it on my iPhone and iPad.

sanking

4-May-2011, 07:45

I also believe Winplotter is a great program and have used it for years, first on a MAC using a Windows 98 emulator, and for many years on a PC laptop which I purchased just to run Winplotter. However, I am a primarily a MAC user and looks like I just need to find a good Window XP emulator or virtual program that will allow me to run Winplotter on my iMAC.

Sandy

J.B. Harlin

4-May-2011, 07:54

sanking

4-May-2011, 16:36

CrossOver works well with WinPlotter for me. . . free 30 day demo lets you try before you buy. . .

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover

J.B.

I had been thinking about trying CrossOver and your message motivated me to go ahead and try the demo. It seems to work almost seamlessly on my iMAC with OS 10.6.6. Have you found it to be stable with the MAC OS system you run?

Sandy

KenM

5-May-2011, 11:19

BarryS

5-May-2011, 12:28

I'll be happy to fill out the survey. I might be interested in buying updated, improved versions on modern platforms, but have no interest in paying for abandonware.

sanking

5-May-2011, 16:51

VMWare Fusion, and Parallels are other options for Windows emulation under Mac OS X. The nice thing about Fusion (not sure about Parallels) is that you can run a number of different OS's, not just Windows. CrossOver seems to be restricted to just Windows.

Personally, I use Fusion. It's been flawless.

CrossOver and Winplotter installed easily on my iMAC but for some reason I could not get it to work on a Macbook Pro, so I tried Fusioin 3.1. Since I have a serial number copy of Windows XP I installed that as my Virtual Machine with Fusion, using the seamless option. It worked perfectly and offers easy transfer back and forth between platforms.

Sandy

J.B. Harlin

8-May-2011, 15:38

J.B.

I had been thinking about trying CrossOver and your message motivated me to go ahead and try the demo. It seems to work almost seamlessly on my iMAC with OS 10.6.6. Have you found it to be stable with the MAC OS system you run?

Sandy

Hi Sandy,

Sorry for not getting back sooner, been out of town. CrossOver has worked seamlessly with my MacMini and OS x 10.6.7. I have no complaints so far.

JB

frednewman

9-May-2011, 10:22

I remembered visiting Phil Davis shortly after the Plotter for PC came out and Phil was running his MAC G-4 with an emulator program and he really liked the new plotter program. The programmer who did the pc version had added a lot of new features. I've showed some of them on the youtube.com video on the PLotter program. To find the videos you just have to do a search on the word "viewcamerastore"

Fred Newman

Greg Blank

9-May-2011, 12:15

Hey Fred;

We talked about all this stuff early last year via Omega, good to know you are still pushing it forward. I have used the oldest version of the plotter program on my Performa 6400 for years. I was so smitten with the program that I kept the computer, and bought a second hand applewriter printer to spit the plots out. The only bad thing is when OS v7.5.3 crashes. Using it under OSX or Unix would be great .....but I understand the constraints. I hope to see a port to the Iphone from the newer version. Just to let you know I will be buying that upgrade for sure :) , hopefully you will be able to do it at the price range you and I spoke of.

I remembered visiting Phil Davis shortly after the Plotter for PC came out and Phil was running his MAC G-4 with an emulator program and he really liked the new plotter program. The programmer who did the pc version had added a lot of new features. I've showed some of them on the youtube.com video on the PLotter program. To find the videos you just have to do a search on the word "viewcamerastore"

Fred Newman

david.jade

10-Jan-2012, 19:07

For those of you interested in ExpoDev for iOS (iPhone and iPod Touch devices), the new version has entered Beta testing. Details can be found here over in the BTZS.org discussion forum for ExpoDev for iOS

http://btzs.org/Forums/forum/Default.asp?forumid=8

I'm also doing a series of articles on ExpoDev for iOS features on my blog (with screen shots of the new version)

http://blog.mutable.net

David Jade

Roger Thoms

10-Jan-2012, 19:18

David, this is encouraging, keep us posted, will definitely buy it when available.

Roger