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View Full Version : Pull out the darkslide entirely?



cyrus
14-Apr-2011, 08:42
Just wondering: how many of us do NOT pull out the darkslide entirely, and how many do?

Scott Walker
14-Apr-2011, 08:47
Out

Ari
14-Apr-2011, 08:49
Out, out, out!

Noah A
14-Apr-2011, 08:58
I remove it entirely. Leaving it partially inserted would make one more thing to catch the wind or get knocked around while shooting. Plus with my luck I wouldn't pull it out far enough...

dsim
14-Apr-2011, 08:58
Out.

rguinter
14-Apr-2011, 09:05
I remove it entirely. Leaving it partially inserted would make one more thing to catch the wind or get knocked around while shooting. Plus with my luck I wouldn't pull it out far enough...

Ditto here.

With it hanging out it catches the wind like a sail.

And one needs to reverse it after the exposure anyway.

I typically hold it in my teeth so eliminate the need to put it down unless the day is very cold and condensation is an issue or the exposure is very long.

Bob G.

BetterSense
14-Apr-2011, 09:12
I pull it out. I like my graflok back that has the clips on the GG guard to hold it. I try to shade the slot, because if I get light leaks it's usually from the felt film holder light trap.

Vaughn
14-Apr-2011, 09:14
Out.

Except for that one time I did an hour exposure by moon light and forgot to take the darkslide out. Spent a long time looking for that darkslide in the dark before finally checking in the film holder.

Brian C. Miller
14-Apr-2011, 09:20
Out.

Should have made a poll for this one! :)

vinny
14-Apr-2011, 09:23
I know of one guy who doesn't. His reasoning is that of dust.

lenser
14-Apr-2011, 09:28
In the studio, the slide is out.

Outdoors, it is flipped and in just enough to stay. Two reasons: One is to insure that there will be no possible light leak from that end (even if I flip the back away from the sun), and second is BECAUSE of the wind.

If the wind is a gale, forget it, but if it is intermittent or somewhat gusting, the extreme flexibility of the slide is a wind indicator and tells me when the wind has stopped long enough so I can make any exposures longer than 1/125th with more assurance of a steady camera.

cjbroadbent
14-Apr-2011, 09:59
Out, and sitting on the bellows. I always thought the light-trap was put in jeopardy by a flapping dark-slide.
Maybe I've wasted years like Mergendieler with his crumbs.

BetterSense
14-Apr-2011, 10:18
One is to insure that there will be no possible light leak from that end

I have found that leaving the darkslide in partway is MORE likely to cause light leaks than otherwise.

rdenney
14-Apr-2011, 10:41
The only dark slide I don't pull out all the way is the one on the Fujiroid PA-45, which they explicitly instruct should not be fully removed (and they provide appropriate markings).

Rick "who has suffered a range of light leaks but never though a slide trap" Denney

Richard Wasserman
14-Apr-2011, 10:46
I always thought the dark-slide is supposed to be used to shade the lens.

I love multi-purpose tools...

Noah A
14-Apr-2011, 10:51
The only dark slide I don't pull out all the way is the one on the Fujiroid PA-45, which they explicitly instruct should not be fully removed (and they provide appropriate markings).

Rick "who has suffered a range of light leaks but never though a slide trap" Denney

Oops. Guess I should have read the manual as I've been pulling it out entirely. Thanks for the heads-up.

BrianShaw
14-Apr-2011, 10:59
Out

MIke Sherck
14-Apr-2011, 11:23
I always thought the dark-slide is supposed to be used to shade the lens.

I love multi-purpose tools...

You're implying that it isn't? ;)

Mike

Leigh
14-Apr-2011, 11:56
Allllllll the way out. :D

- Leigh

Eric Woodbury
14-Apr-2011, 11:58
Out. It is, after all, the lens shade.

Heroique
14-Apr-2011, 12:03
When I use Quickloads, I keep the “darkslide” partly in.

The first time, I pulled it all the way out.

:(

bsimison
14-Apr-2011, 12:29
I started pulling it all the way out because of quickloads.

While waiting for the wind to stop blowing on a desert shoot, I was poised and ready with the quickload sleeve pulled -- all I needed was the wind to stop and I could release the shutter. I ended up with sharp images, but with terrible light leaks around the edges. The only reason I could figure was that the wind was catching the quickload sleeve and levering the quickload holder away from the camera, allowing small amounts of light to leak in.

So, yeah...the slides come all the way out now.

Ben Syverson
14-Apr-2011, 13:46
Out. Partially in creates the opportunity for a light leak. It also creates a giant lever for wind (or your hand) to shake the camera.

dave_whatever
14-Apr-2011, 13:57
Out.

Its hard to use it to shade the lens when its still in.

Keith S. Walklet
14-Apr-2011, 14:03
Out, but... keep the trap covered with the focusing cloth.

Much like the PA-45, I have to keep the darkslide in its sleeve with my Calumet roll film adapter, otherwise I get light leaks. The darkslide is marked to indicate when it has cleared the image frame.

tgtaylor
14-Apr-2011, 16:09
I always pull the dark slide all the way out. If a shadow is cast on the front lens element while holding the slide off to the side, then I'll hold it in that position to shield the lens when triggering the shutter. Recently I saw a video of Ansel Adams doing the exact same thing with an 8x10.

Thomas

Jack Dahlgren
14-Apr-2011, 16:14
Pull it out - it has to be flipped anyway.

munz6869
14-Apr-2011, 18:08
Pulling it all the way out REMINDS me to flip it around!!!

Marc!

Thebes
14-Apr-2011, 23:19
Out and often employed as a lens shade.

cyrus
15-Apr-2011, 10:50
Yeah I thought so but was surprised to see some people leaving them partly in, supposedly to prevent light leaks

Preston
15-Apr-2011, 10:58
Out and often employed as a lens shade.

Yep. Me too.

--P

johnmsanderson
15-Apr-2011, 14:49
I'm considering attaching dark slide holders to my film holders -- you know, like those lens cap holders. They have a tendency to fly away on windy night leaving me with two options : going to find it in the dark or wasting a sheet of film. Luckily I've be successful with the former option but my future looks bleak.

Brian Ellis
15-Apr-2011, 20:07
Ditto here.

With it hanging out it catches the wind like a sail.

And one needs to reverse it after the exposure anyway.

I typically hold it in my teeth so eliminate the need to put it down unless the day is very cold and condensation is an issue or the exposure is very long.

Bob G.

I have to ask - why do you not just hold it in your hand (the hand you used to pull it out of the holder and that you're presumably going to use to put it back in the holder)?

Heroique
15-Apr-2011, 20:42
...I flip the [camera] back away from the sun...

I rarely remember to do this, probably because it makes so much sense!

Rotating the back away from the sun, when it’s possible, should ease concerns about pulling the slide all the way out.

swmcl
16-Apr-2011, 03:08
I drove many kilometres once to take photos of a seasonal crop. When the photos were developed, the light leaks could only be attributed to the wind vibrating the almost-out darkslide.

So, out it is and forever will be !

Not having the darkslide come out on the upper side or the sunny-er side is also a very good idea

Rgds,

Steve

E. von Hoegh
16-Apr-2011, 08:08
Out, damn slide! (sorry, Will).

rguinter
16-Apr-2011, 08:44
I have to ask - why do you not just hold it in your hand (the hand you used to pull it out of the holder and that you're presumably going to use to put it back in the holder)?

I almost always need two hands... one for the stopwatch and the other for the shutter release or some other task. So I've made it a habit.

And isn't that what teeth are made for... holding things when both hands are busy?

Bob G.

rguinter
16-Apr-2011, 08:48
I rarely remember to do this, probably because it makes so much sense!

Rotating the back away from the sun, when it’s possible, should ease concerns about pulling the slide all the way out.

It's routine for me to leave the darkcloth over the camera back while shooting in the sun. This process mostly eliminates worries about light leaks.

This one was done in direct sun (which would have been) shining directly on the ground glass.

Bob G.

Heroique
16-Apr-2011, 12:10
Bob,

Your technique is beginning to sound incredibly involved ―

Have you ever considered a metronome, in lieu of the stopwatch?

It might free-up your teeth! ;)

Leigh
16-Apr-2011, 13:59
I almost always need two hands... one for the stopwatch and the other for the shutter release or some other task. So I've made it a habit.
The filmholder pouches from f.64 have a pocket to hold the darkslide. :cool:

Easier than growing a third hand. :eek:

- Leigh

rguinter
16-Apr-2011, 15:35
Bob,

Your technique is beginning to sound incredibly involved ―

Have you ever considered a metronome, in lieu of the stopwatch?

It might free-up your teeth! ;)

Not really that involved... to me anyway. Just seems so natural.

Isn't that what the plastic pull-tabs are for on the end of Fidelity Elites?

Bob G.

Scratched Glass
16-Apr-2011, 15:42
I used to leave the slide partially in, but I was getting light leaks. Now that I've switched I have not had any. My speed graphic and technika have clips to hold the darkslide.

rguinter
16-Apr-2011, 15:59
The filmholder pouches from f.64 have a pocket to hold the darkslide. :cool:

Easier than growing a third hand. :eek:

- Leigh

Heroique thinks my technique is a bit involved... and I suppose it is a bit.

But maybe give me the benefit of the doubt for just a moment... can't that be said about the whole LF technique?

Anyway here's my procedure with film holders when I'm setting up for a photo.

I usually shoot several different films and I line their holders up ahead of time on something clean next to the tripod (if that's feasible). And each holder is inside its own labeled ziplock bag.

When I'm ready to shoot I pick up the first bag, open it, and take out the film holder. I then fold the bag and put it in my shirt pocket.

I have to lift the darkcloth and insert the film-holder into the spring-back and this takes two hands. Once inserted I remove the slide and hold it between my teeth at the pull-tab. That leaves both hands free to take care of whatever else is necessary to make the shot.

I don't spit on the film holder while holding it that way but I admit that in the Winter time condensation can be a problem so in those cases I usually put it down on something clean.

It's easy to do and there are no worries about lost slides in the dark, slides blowing away in the wind, or dropping in the dirt or in the water if I'm set up in the middle of a river... which I sometimes do.

May be a bit eccentric but hey... I don't recall ever denying eccentricity.

Bob G.

P.S. Just don't eat any jelly donuts while doing photos...

Eric Biggerstaff
16-Apr-2011, 18:09
Out, then I use the dark cloth to cover the back and the bellows. The darkslide is used as a shade.

Douglas Henderson
18-Apr-2011, 21:11
I pull it out and either use it to block direct light entering the holder slit or use it to shade the lens. And you need to flip it to indicate the film has been exposed. A few double exposures will soon cure you of thinking you will remember clearly everything you've done in the last 30 seconds.

Michael Kadillak
22-Apr-2011, 20:45
Out, then I use the dark cloth to cover the back and the bellows. The darkslide is used as a shade.

I have determined after extensive testing that as long as one is using a modern camera, modern plastic holders with good bellows that with 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 there is no need to use the dark cloth over the back of the camera. It is one more thing that can get catch wind and cause a problem during a long exposure. Properly seated holders result in perfect exposures as the light seals in the camera backs works as intended. John Fieldler has probably shot 10,000 perfect exposures this way not to mention many others that do the same thing. One less thing to worry about.

When you are shooting larger than 8x10 and/or are using wooden holders that may be your only option it is a whole new ball game. The wooden holders do not have the injection molded light trap built into the flap end and in situ are not completely light tight. The easiest way to get around this problem is to use a thin piece of 3M black flap end tape to cover each side of the closed flap to prevent unnecessary light leakage. The wide range of proportions of camera backs and holders in ULF formats makes it a good idea to use the dark cloth over the camera back in these instances. The cost of film is also a strong incentive in these situations.

I remember seeing images of Morley Bauer making photographs with his cameras that looked like he had a dark cloth that could cover a small automobile over the entire camera hanging over the back and right up to the front standard where he had his dark slide protruding out in front. I guess it is one way to never have to concern yourself about leaking bellows.

Merg Ross
22-Apr-2011, 21:18
I remember seeing images of Morley Bauer making photographs with his cameras that looked like he had a dark cloth that could cover a small automobile over the entire camera hanging over the back and right up to the front standard where he had his dark slide protruding out in front. I guess it is one way to never have to concern yourself about leaking bellows.

Morley Baer was a master, and I learned much of my technique from him. He taught the importance of covering the bellows on my 8x10, as well as the holder, during exposure. However, we both had very old wooden cameras with bellows of questionable integrity. Better safe, than sorry, was our motto!

h2oman
23-Apr-2011, 14:22
I tried something new (for me) last weekend - I pulled out BOTH darkslides entirely. It didn't do much to help the already exposed sheet of film that was facing backward. :D

Michael Kadillak
23-Apr-2011, 14:41
Morley Baer was a master, and I learned much of my technique from him. He taught the importance of covering the bellows on my 8x10, as well as the holder, during exposure. However, we both had very old wooden cameras with bellows of questionable integrity. Better safe, than sorry, was our motto!

How truly fortunate you are to have had such marvelous experiences with such masters as Morley at their craft. The closest most of us could come to admiring and learning from such personalities was through second hand recollections or writings.

Merg Ross
23-Apr-2011, 15:35
How truly fortunate you are to have had such marvelous experiences with such masters as Morley at their craft. The closest most of us could come to admiring and learning from such personalities was through second hand recollections or writings.

Hi Michael,

My comment was not intended to refute the good point made in your first paragraph. Sorry if it came off that way.

I do have to laugh when I recall the condition of the equipment used by some of the "masters". Often, as with Morley and Brett, the cameras were beat-up old woodies with suspect bellows. There were many homemade alterations and accessories. Brett made his own tripod head out of aluminum, and used it until he moved on to the Baco heads. His lenshade was made out of a peanut can painted black.

Yes, I was fortunate. No doubt about it.

Oh, I should answer the question: I have always pulled out the darkslide entirely.

Merg

BetterSense
23-Apr-2011, 15:59
I don't drape the dark cloth over the camera because I think light is leaking around the light holder. I do it because I specifically worry about the integrity of the light trap in the film holder itself. I don't trust any film holder to perfectly seal around the darkslide as I pull it out, expose, and re-insert the darkslide with Texas sun blasting the whole time. Maybe if I could afford to buy all new film holders, I would trust the light seals more, but until then I consider the felt light seals to be adequate for studio shooting but not to be trusted in the field. It's another reason I like my Grafmatic.

Maris Rusis
23-Apr-2011, 16:23
I don't drape the dark cloth over the camera because I think light is leaking around the light holder. I do it because I specifically worry about the integrity of the light trap in the film holder itself.

That's my worry too. If I have to set up a camera angle where the sun will be shining straight down the darkslide slot I turn the camera back and attach it upside down. Then I can pull the darkslide down and out and the slot faces the ground; so far no light leaks.

Two23
23-Apr-2011, 18:22
Out, mainly because I'm I'll forget to reverse it. Also sometimes use it as a sun shield.


Kent in SD

Keith S. Walklet
23-Apr-2011, 18:42
That's my worry too. If I have to set up a camera angle where the sun will be shining straight down the darkslide slot I turn the camera back and attach it upside down. Then I can pull the darkslide down and out and the slot faces the ground; so far no light leaks.

I use a similar approach, so long as there is no back tilt. With my Toyo, when I tilt the back, I can't insert a film holder from the bottom, nor can I remove the back to rotate its position.

Dave - Landscapes
26-Apr-2011, 00:49
That's my worry too. If I have to set up a camera angle where the sun will be shining straight down the darkslide slot I turn the camera back and attach it upside down. Then I can pull the darkslide down and out and the slot faces the ground; so far no light leaks.

I'm an "out" guy and like Maris, I've been caught with sun at 90 degrees to camera axis giving me a flare when shooting Horseman 612 RFH. Couldn't work out what happened at first then it struck me - duh. So now I use darkcloth or hat to shield the darkslide slot or revolve the RFH round the other way. Bingo, no more problems!

Regards

Dave