Thinking about an ultralight Series 0 Gitzo tripod, a couple of questions.

[NicolasArg]

Hello board,
I've been doing a lot of multi day mountaing trekking lately, using an Xprob190 tripod to support my Toyo 45A and a 210mm lens. It's not rock solid but I figured out how to use it (mainly half extended and weight stabilized) to get sharp shots even in windy conditions.
After my latest journey I decided to lighten up my whole camping equipment and the tripod I'm using. So I'm buying a new down bag, a new tent, etc.
So now I need an ultralight pod. I've been looking at the Gitzo mountaineer 0 series, mainly the 0530 and 0531 models. They weigh about 700gr. If I add a compact leveling base or a Kirk BH3 head I'm on the one kilo range. The big question is- Anyone has this Gitzo pod? Will it be enough for my camera kit if properly stabilized with a backpack or a bag with stones? I read on the web about folks using it with 1ds Canon cameras but would love to hear from LF shooters.
I also considered the feisol tournament 3342 but I'm really attracted to the more compact Gitzo.
Thanks in advance for any input.

[Bill Burk]

I use a Gitzo G1027 with a Leica small ballhead. It weighs 870gr.

It's so light that I barely notice when I add it to my pack, and I don't get tired carrying it around one-handed.

It's too light. I lost two shots due to vibration in a light steady wind. True I forgot to hang the bag of stones, which would have helped.

So I'd "budget" a little more weight for the tripod. Maybe you can make up the difference somewhere else, for example I saved half a pound by replacing my Pentax analog spotmeter.

There is a good forum site, backpacking light, where you can get more advice how to save weight. Be sure to check it out before you buy the tent and sleeping bag.

[NicolasArg]

Thank you Bill, right the type of first hand experience I was looking for. I'll go for a larger tripod and continue shaving grams from the other equipment.

[Drew Wiley]

Too light. Vibration in wind will be one issue; a bigger problem will be wind picking up
the whole camera and potentially tossing it. The rig will be just too top-heavy in relation to the wimpy legs. Two things I'd avoid : a ball head and an extended center
column. I install my 4X5 directly onto my Gitzo carbon legs using a solid quick release.
But it's a littler bigger Gitzo. An extra pound or so of legs, with a little more diameter, can make a huge difference in practicality, and still be extremely portable. A bought a
much bigger Feisol carbon tripod for my 8X10 and am quite pleased with it. The bigger
platform-style top is superior to the Gitzo system, though I use carbon tripods only
for airline use or long backpacks where trimming weight is essential, and Ries wooden tripods otherwise.
in

[NicolasArg]

Yes, actually I never used the central column on my M190Xprob except for some around house snapshots with the digicam. The extended column feels like a monopod on a set of legs. Here in Patagonia I always shoot with light to strong wind so adding weight is almost mandatory. I googled the small series 0 tripod and saw a photo of it, definitely tiny. That's why I'll go for a larger CF one.
The wooden tripods are really good looking and I used at least 5 of them, although not for photography- telescopes and theodolites.

[John Schneider]

I used (both CF) a Gitzo series 0 (four leg sections) and a series 1 (three leg sections). The series 0 was too wobbly and the bottom leg sections were impossibly thin to have any rigidity, so I sold it. The series 1 is much more usable (I use it with a 4x5 Gowland and a Horseman SW612). For anything bigger I use a series 3 w/o center column.

[Drew Wiley]

Bill - I don't know about some of those "backpacking light" sites when potentially serious weather is in question. I'd be dead a long time ago if I took that kind of advice.
In my youth I did get up into the high country quite a bit minimalist style, but don't
think I'd try that again at my age. Sometimes snow campers in the winter can get away with certain lightweight fabric shelters, just because the cold keeps the snow
from thawing; but later in the season or in summer storms, some of those single-layer
ultralight fabrics are guaranteed misery. Wind can be an even more serious problem.
I've certainly paid my dues and learned the hard way. Nowadays it's a Bibler tent for
me! I've never been to Patagonia, but my nephew has trekked and climbed there a lot,
and apparently the wind is persistent.

[NicolasArg]

Well, actually The BD firstlight is on my top priority list right now. I actually ordered one a couple of months ago to a local dealer but he never got it into the country. It's based on the Bibler frame. Several people I know use it here in Patagonia and it's completely reliable.
But the ultralight folks do have a lot to share. For example, I began to use a simple homemade alcohol stove for short hikes and the weight reduction has been really great, never had a failure. I switched from a huge and heavy polartec sweater to a really compact down jacket as the second layer and it also is great. I stopped carrying a complete cooking setup and just use an ultralight pot for everything, never missed the rest of it.
Camping on snow is a different story of course

[fuegocito]

I agree with others that a 0 series might be too light for any 45 unless you can attach and secure the weight of the entire backpack to it. I have used both the MSR habahaba and Big Agnes seed house feather weight tents and both held up fine in fairly extreme three season weather conditions. MSR pocketrocket is great for weight reducing cooking solution.

[Drew Wiley]

A lot of wt can be saved in the camera kit itself - bubble wrap around lenses, and the
4x5 wrapped in the down jacket, plus a plastic bag of course, so no need of an extra
padded case. Choosing more compact lenses like Fujinon A's, C's or Nikkor M's rather
than traditional plasmats.

[tgtaylor]

The GT 0540 works fine with my Toyo 45CF. Of course the CF weighs in at a little under 4lbs with the normal lens attached and it is usually not necessary to weigh down the center column at all. I've never tried it with the AX. After all, if I'm looking to save weight by carrying the GT0540 instead of the Manfrotto 441 or Gitzo G1348 I surely wouldn't pack a six lb camera.

CF + 150mm lens + GT0540 + G1177M = ~ 6.4lbs!

Thomas

[fuegocito]

yeah, small compact lenses like angulon and geronars wrapped in socks, grafmatic or mido film holders, what is the name of that super compact/small spotmeter?...Personally I would go for one of those non folding SW type field cameras for faster setup and take downs


A lot of wt can be saved in the camera kit itself - bubble wrap around lenses, and the
4x5 wrapped in the down jacket, plus a plastic bag of course, so no need of an extra
padded case. Choosing more compact lenses like Fujinon A's, C's or Nikkor M's rather
than traditional plasmats.

[engl]

I'm in a similar situation, looking for a traveling pod, and have pretty much decided to go with a Feisol. They use much larger diameter tubes for lower sections than Gitzo 1 series which should make a major difference, especially in leg lock stability. They also make that nice 3441T, tall enough to be used comfortably without extending the center column, while still having a one for those times it is needed.

Gitzo use thicker tubes though so I'd expect them to be more rugged.

[Drew Wiley]

My Gitzo was the first carbon fiber "Mountaineer" model on the market and has held up
well under backcountry conditions. I removed the center column and inserted a mounting screw system in order to eliminate the need for a tripod head. It works quite well for either a folder 4X5, monorail, or even my 6x7. The Feisol I recently purchased does indeed have thinner tube walls than the Gitzo, so might not take as much abuse per se, but is better designed in the sense it is more stable in relation to its overall weight. The top section is wider, with the hinge knuckles splayed out to the side rather than below the top. And the center cylinder up on top can be interchanged quite easily, making this tripod ideal for the kind of conversion I have just described. It folds up to a little bigger diameter than a comparable Gitzo. I bought the optional stainless steel spikes, which only add a little extra weight but are invaluable on slippery surfaces. A nice system.

[Juergen Sattler]

Check out the lightest Feisol tripod - it should work for you better than the Gitzo "0" series. I own the Gitzo for hiking and my DSLR - it works OK for that purpose, but I would never put my LF camera on that thing. The Feisol on the other hand should do the trick - a friend of mine owns one and I was quite impressed.

[tgtaylor]

I just looked at the Feisol and for my use and camera the Gitzo is better.

1. The Gitzo w/1177M head is significantly lighter than the Feisol w/head: 2.38 lbs vs 3.11 lbs.

2. Although I don't own the Feisol, it's the opinion of the posters above that the Gitzo's legs are of a thicker construction and the tripod likely to be more durable than the Feisol. This is important because neither of these tripods are "cheap" and, IMO, for that kind of dough it better last a lifetime. Incidentally the purchase price of the Gitzo and head came to the same as that of the Feisol: At the time Gitzo was advertising a rebate of $50 on the purchase of a tripod and $100 if a tripod and ball-head were purchased together. Since I purchased both together, I received a check from the distributor for $100 within 30 days of my purchase. Combined with free shipping from B&H that brought my final cost down to $500.

3. Although the Feisol system is rated for a greater load than the Gitzo's (22/33lbs vs 11/8.92 lbs rsp), that is meaningless considering the weight of my camera with attached lens is a tad under 4 lbs!

4. The Feisol does have a higher max height without using the center column (50.39 inches vs 46.5 inches) but that height difference of 4 inches is really insignificant. If anything 4 inches closer to the ground would improve stability - especially if a slight breeze is blowing which is usually the case. More important is the 2 inch folded length difference (16.93 vs 18.9) favoring the Feisol. But both of these tripods are extremely compact and the additional 2 inches in folded length is insignificant.

5. The diameter of the Gitzo's base plate is 2-5/16" vs 2 inches for the Feisol. I don't use a QR so taking that attachment off the Feisol may increase its diameter as well as lightening its total weight.

In summary, for me the main advantages of the Gitzo is its durability and lighter weight.

Thomas

[Bill Burk]

Hey Drew,
Back when I did minimalist backpacking, I would carry a Star-D in a home-made Gore-Tex case. It makes my left shoulder ache with sympathetic pain just remembering.

In 1981 in Dusy basin, a guy asked me to take a picture of him and his buddy with his camera. He started to show me where to press the shutter release when his buddy said "look... I think he knows how to use it".

I really miss having to find something to climb on so I could look through the viewfinder.

There are people who carry super-ultra-light to extremes. But you only have to take a few of their ideas into your own packing to get your pack down to 35 pounds - even with an LF camera and all the attendant gear.

[jeroldharter]

I have a small Gitzo (not carbon fiber) and it is too light. It is too light for a Pentax 67 let alone a Toyo. 4x5. The Feisol would be a better choice.

[Drew Wiley]

Hi Bill - I've done it all, including spending nights in the high country with no sleeping
bag or tent at all. That's how the Indians did it. I remember one cowboy who would just roll up in his stinky saddle blanket. As kids we'd disappear into the peaks and
canyons for days or even weeks at a time and live off the land. At most, I'd carry a
poncho. Since those days I've actually had tents shattered by ice rime, camped in
hurricane force winds atop summits, deliberately gone into blizzards for the hell of it.
Now that I'm getting old and lazy I've reverted to more of a human mule mode, packing
a few amenities, but rarely 90 lbs anymore - more like 75. Had a climbing buddy in my
early years who liked to eat well ... we'd do maybe 22 miles and 6000 ft of grade, and
he'd have at least two cast iron skillets in the pack, a full size axe, a ham, a slab of
bacon, several cantaloupe, zucchini, etc. Got a kick last year when a couple of young
fellows postholed over the high Muir Trail passes early season with going lightweight.
They were soaked and utterly miserable and had to hike out midway. My hiking buddy
(who had just given up on his ultralight tent and brought a Bibler too - good thing, it
was snowing and sleeting like crazy at 10,000)- well, he made the memorable remark
about the wild look in thier eyes, that they'd ceased being humans and had become
marmots.

[Michael Gordon]

For what it's worth, my Feisol CT-3342 lasted only a little over two years. I've had three epoxy welds fail on three different leg joints (complete failure while in the field; two happened at once!), and one of the leg stops on the head assembly completely ground away. Additionally, many of the plastic collar stops on each leg have broken and caused major stickiness (they've subsequently been replaced). Finally, one of the upper leg tubes has developed a long crack in the CF that was not caused by misuse.

If you use your tripod a lot, you might consider spending more $$ to get better gear (Gitzo). This being said, Kerry Thalmann at Really Big Cameras has provided superb support for my Feisol problems.

[Drew Wiley]

I think these Feisol tripods have been re-engineered, and haven't heard anything negative so far. Something like a 3442 looks appropriate for a lightwt 4x5. I personally
bought a CT3472 for my 8X10 for special travel needs, or as old age insurance when
my big Ries tripod might seem too heavy someday (it's half the wt of the Ries)- but it's overkill for 4x5. But there are other choices besides Gitzo and Feisol, like Induro.

[Professional]

Honestly speaking, i advice you to go with Gitzo series 2 or 3, i use Series 5 and i never look back, it is heavy yes, but if i want something lighter then i use Series 3, it is light enough for me, if i want more lighter then i use Series 2, it is crazy lightweight, because i have also Series 1 traveler tripod i really didn't like it because many times i feel if a bit strong wind is there or if i just push the tripod slightly by mistake then the tripod will fall off, so i just use Series 2 up to 5 and never think about Series 0[don't have] or 1.

[D-tach]

Nicolas,

I just got back from Patagonia (around Bariloche and Esquel) and used a Gitzo GT3541LS combined with a RRS BH55 ballhead for my Chamonix 4x5 and it is a rock solid combination. The tripod and ballhead together weigh 2,57kg so I don't know if that's too heavy for backpacking as I was travelling by car and doing only short hikes :-)

[Eric Brody]

I have used a Gitzo CF 1227 (now discontinued) with an Arca Field 4x5, as well as a D700 and 70-200 and it was iffy with both cameras. The issues are top heaviness and even minor vibration. You are likely much younger and stronger than I (and many of the members of this forum) and can carry more weight. It seems to me, personal opinion, of course, that if you are going to the trouble of taking a 4x5 into the field in Patagonia, you should not skimp on a tripod that will adequately support the camera. It's like putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari, they might hold it up, but won't function well under any kind of a load. Fine tuning is great, but in my opinion, the tripod is such an important part of the photo with a 4x5, that you're putting your effort in the wrong place. Just because a tripod won't collapse, does not mean it won't vibrate and ruin your 4x5 images.
Good luck.
Eric

[NicolasArg]

Thank you gentlemen for all the valuable comments posted above. Finally I decided to shave weight on other equipment and purchased a Gitzo 3541LS tripod, I hope it's travelling to it's new home right now (cross my fingers).
I considered getting a Feisol tournament tripod and sent a mail to reallybigcameras asking a couple of questions. It was answered. Then I sent a second mail confirming the purchase and then a third mail just in case the second one got lost (several days later). 3 weeks later I still have no answer, so noticed that BH was doing rebates on Gitzos and went the systematic route.

[NicolasArg]

Nicolas,

I just got back from Patagonia (around Bariloche and Esquel) and used a Gitzo GT3541LS combined with a RRS BH55 ballhead for my Chamonix 4x5 and it is a rock solid combination. The tripod and ballhead together weigh 2,57kg so I don't know if that's too heavy for backpacking as I was travelling by car and doing only short hikes :-)

I live in Bariloche! It would be great to get together with a fellow LF photographer.
2.57kg is quite managable :)

[D-tach]

I live in Bariloche! It would be great to get together with a fellow LF photographer.
2.57kg is quite managable :)

:-) Well, you live in a beautifull country Nicolas- and very friendly people.
Next year I hope to get back but a bit more south (Torres del Paine etc)

And congrats with the new Gitzo, you won't regret it :-)

Tom

[NicolasArg]

:-) Well, you live in a beautifull country Nicolas- and very friendly people.
Next year I hope to get back but a bit more south (Torres del Paine etc)

And congrats with the new Gitzo, you won't regret it :-)

Tom

Thanks Tom! Can't wait for it to arrive :)