Bellows from ecbuyonline2008???

[Scott --]

Hi, all -

Was checking out bellows on eBay for the 4x5 project yesterday and happened across this post: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270682944046&ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:US:1123#ht_3306wt_908. I contacted the seller for dimensions to see if they'd fit my Asanuma, and he replied that he can custom build a bellows to fit. I'm just curious if anyone has used these before, and what they thought of them. $80 seems a good price; I have a PM to the seller out asking about materials.

Thanks,
Scott

[sully75]

I'd be interested in knowing too!

[jack_hui]

I am quite sure that the seller is either from Hong Kong or China, and the source of the bellow is from China for sure.

I have order one for my 8x10 Tachi in few years ago, in red color, very good quality.

http://www.pbase.com/jack_hui/image/87481871.jpg

[Scott Davis]

I emailed him via ebay to inquire. I've got a camera project I'm trying to restore and it would be interesting to see what kind of price he can give me for a new bellows for my 12x15.

[Peter De Smidt]

Jack,

What materials are used?

[jack_hui]

Peter,

I dont really know, as the bellow is more "solid" than the Tachi's old broken bellow.
My best guess is Nylon ....

Jack

[GPS]

Hi, all -

Was checking out bellows on eBay for the 4x5 project yesterday and happened across this post: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270682944046&ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:US:1123#ht_3306wt_908. I contacted the seller for dimensions to see if they'd fit my Asanuma, and he replied that he can custom build a bellows to fit. I'm just curious if anyone has used these before, and what they thought of them. $80 seems a good price; I have a PM to the seller out asking about materials.

Thanks,
Scott

Scott,
if you go to his Ebay site and check on his rating you can find info you need. He sells many types of bellows, even for vintage cameras (such as Zeiss Super Ikonta 6x9) and also for Linhof Technika 3000, 2000, IV,V, Toyo 810 M etc.
You can find users comments about his bellows - from positive ones to less positive ones. One user comments about his Linhof Technika bellows as "somewhat sticky", others seem to be content for the same item. While a picture of his Zeiss Nettar camera bellows shows it's made of leather the buyer says - no, it's vinyl bellows... You find also prices for his diffferent bellows...

[Scott Davis]

Update- he can't/won't make bellows bigger than 8x10.

[Michael Kadillak]

I am always rather surprised at what a cheap bunch we are at times. One would think that the security of knowing that your ever increasing costs of sheet film are complimented with bellows integrity from a reputable maker and that they will have the durability of being in service for a very very long time. Two words - Camera Bellows

Each time I see some bargain it eventually seems to go South. Inexpensive lens board arrived from a seller on the Bay. I opened up the package and dropped it in the garbage as a lesson learned. Cheap piece of plywood that I could nearly bend with my fingers. Cost me more in return shipping and hassle to get my money back. I ordered the real thing from Richard Ritter and it cost me 4x as much but I got a proper lens board that will service me for as long as I shoot.

If you can make a bellows yourself then you have some control over the materials and construction. I would rather make photographs. With sheet film for larger than 8x10 formats at the lofty prices as they are now, why screw around with it. Most of the time you get what you pay for. Pay what it is worth for craftsmanship once and never worry about it again. Just my $0.02.

[jack_hui]

believe it or not, Chamonix use similar material for their bellow.

The source of this seller are from Beijing, check this out:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=6950536660

price in Chinese dollars.

[Michael Kadillak]

believe it or not, Chamonix use similar material for their bellow.

The source of this seller are from Beijing, check this out:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=6950536660

price in Chinese dollars.

Then where do they get their ULF camera bellows if this seller does not make them?

Far to many variables here to draw any meaningful conclusion. If the material separates or some other problem arises what do you do? If it is Camera Bellows they will stand behind their craftsmanship and make it right.

[goamules]

Then where do they get their ULF camera bellows if this seller does not make them?

Far to many variables here to draw any meaningful conclusion. If the material separates or some other problem arises what do you do? If it is Camera Bellows they will stand behind their craftsmanship and make it right.

But you are making conclusions. I know what you are saying, sometimes quality matters. Everyone is different at what they want to spend.

And there can be extenuating circumstances. For example, I have a nice Kodak 8x10 I've restored. I have about $100 in it. It needs bellows. I figure my time restoring it was about $100. If I pay more than $150 for bellows, I have too much in it. Why? Because I could have just scrapped the camera and go buy one that is complete with bellows for less.

Do you know approximately what Camera Bellows charges for 8x10?

[Ramiro Elena]

I was quoted £185.00 for my Eastman View 8x10 exluding VAT, shipping and packing. I'd have to send my damaged bellows with its frames.
I know I'll do it when I have the money but I was too wondering about that seller.

[Michael Kadillak]

But you are making conclusions. I know what you are saying, sometimes quality matters. Everyone is different at what they want to spend.

And there can be extenuating circumstances. For example, I have a nice Kodak 8x10 I've restored. I have about $100 in it. It needs bellows. I figure my time restoring it was about $100. If I pay more than $150 for bellows, I have too much in it. Why? Because I could have just scrapped the camera and go buy one that is complete with bellows for less.

Do you know approximately what Camera Bellows charges for 8x10?

You are assisting me make my point. The question is not what you paid for your restored Kodak camera but what is its market value? You do an excellent job of restoring the camera at such a very reasonable entry cost I contend that the value of the camera goes up when you can state to a potential buyer that an excellent bellows from a reputable manufacturer is complimenting the camera and not some wanna be bellows. If $50 - $100 of financial exposure is a deal killer in this situation then I am beside myself as to why you are playing in this arena? The film costs alone are going to eat your lunch if money is this tight and I am not being critical in any way so please do not take it that way. LF and ULF photography is inherently a very expensive form of expression and for students, people with small families or others with financial responsibilities for which this does not fit in then so be it.

When photographers look at a camera they see value when it is there. Similarly when there is question as to components the price can drop proportionally. I would suspect that Camera bellows charges what the real market value for craftsmanship is because they are the standard in this business.

[jp]

I have this guy making some bellows for me right now for my century. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Jim Ormond
7454 Henbane Street
Etiwanda , CA 91739
909-980-0606

I could have built them myself to save some money, but rarely is the first time I do something I get professional results, even if I am capable. That usually comes with practice and experience. Theoretically, I could have become a good woodworker building my own kitchen cabinets, but my wife is happy I hired it out because they came out really good and it's actually completed.

Thus I decided to hire it done instead of build bellows perhaps twice to get what I wanted. It'll be the most expensive part of the camera project so far except for the lenses. It's a small price compared to all the other equipment and expenses of the hobby.

[mandoman7]

If $50 - $100 of financial exposure is a deal killer in this situation then I am beside myself as to why you are playing in this arena? The film costs alone are going to eat your lunch if money is this tight and I am not being critical in any way so please do not take it that way. LF and ULF photography is inherently a very expensive form of expression and for students, people with small families or others with financial responsibilities for which this does not fit in then so be it.

Does it have to be so either-or, though?

In my observations, it seems that a lot of the photogs who follow the only-the-best philosophy are actually hobbyists. A lot of times, in the real world, one has to undertake a project with finite resources, and the challenge is find to a way to maximum the end results with what you have. Back in the days of commercial studios I remember reading an article where a prominent figure suggested that really good shooters were the ones that had stuff taped to their lights. They might be using a costly sinar, etc., but the suggestion was that there were times when flexibility is what brings home the bacon.

Personally, I've had enough bad experiences with bellows that I would agree that its an area to not mess around. And, I love the feel of the pieces of equipment where I have spent good money for quality, like a nice tripod head. So, I kind of agree, but still feel its possible that this guy is producing a usable product.

[sanchi heuser]

Hi,

didn't camerabellows change into www.custombellows.co.uk
some time ago?

Andi

[goamules]

... If $50 - $100 of financial exposure is a deal killer in this situation then I am beside myself as to why you are playing in this arena? The film costs alone are going to eat your lunch if money is this tight and I am not being critical in any way so please do not take it that way. LF and ULF photography is inherently a very expensive form of expression and for students, people with small families or others with financial responsibilities for which this does not fit in then so be it. ....

Don't be "beside yourself" it's really not your concern. I have noticed there are two types of people on hobby boards. The types that are "do it yourself" and the "buy retail" people. I'm usually the former. I don't buy expensive, new lenses in amazingly repeatable shutters. I shoot antique lenses mostly in no shutters. I don't buy a brand new camera when an old Speed Graphic or 2D will work. I don't buy film much, I make my own wetplate chemicals. So the costs of LF haven't eaten me alive, far, far from it. I use patience, horse trading skills, and innovation to do exactly what I want in LF.

You are right, LF can "eat your lunch..." if you do it the other way.

Now, onto bellows, I agree you want a good set that will last, say 15 years. $200 is not that much for a bellows, and I may go that route. But if someone can make a kit (like the old DIY guy), or an offshore can make a bellows for $79, is competition a bad thing? I think not.

[Michael Kadillak]

Don't be "beside yourself" it's really not your concern. I have noticed there are two types of people on hobby boards. The types that are "do it yourself" and the "buy retail" people. I'm usually the former. I don't buy expensive, new lenses in amazingly repeatable shutters. I shoot antique lenses mostly in no shutters. I don't buy a brand new camera when an old Speed Graphic or 2D will work. I don't buy film much, I make my own wetplate chemicals. So the costs of LF haven't eaten me alive, far, far from it. I use patience, horse trading skills, and innovation to do exactly what I want in LF.

You are right, LF can "eat your lunch..." if you do it the other way.

Now, onto bellows, I agree you want a good set that will last, say 15 years. $200 is not that much for a bellows, and I may go that route. But if someone can make a kit (like the old DIY guy), or an offshore can make a bellows for $79, is competition a bad thing? I think not.

We are not that far apart in our approach to LF photography.

I applaud innovation and congratulate those that have the skills, time and resources to build cameras. tripods, lens boards, bellows, film holders and who mix chemicals in various assimilations to do their photographic thing. But let's be perfectly honest about these situations. There is many times a much more serious investment in tools and skills that allows these individuals to accomplish what they do. Most folks do not have a wood or metal shop (or personal access to one) nor the various secondary tools or experience to even venture down this road. It is these folks that are the norm and that is who I am directing in my comments here.

For these people one must determine where it is worth the risk of implementing a far less expensive plan B or where it is not. Here is where I see it. Barrel lenses are perfectly fine as one does not really need a mechanical shutter to make a fabulous photograph. One can use a lenscap. a hat or use a Packard shutter. Older lenses can be exceptional bargains. Ditto for older film holders that can be worked over to retain their light worthiness. Out of date film or x ray film is regularly employed with great success and photographers can mix just about every chemical they need for themselves.

From my perspective the entire light seal of a large format camera including the bellows and the integrity of the light seal with each standard and the rear ground glass assembly is where one simply should not cut corners because the adverse consequences can be devastating to the photographer. Every one of us that has been at this for any length of time has gone through a light seepage problem on our cameras that has caused frustration and anxiety and is usually remedied with considerable resolve to not ever have this happen to them again. Having been down this road myself when I acquire a camera with even a hint of pin holes I do not *%^&#$ around with repairs because of the inherent risk involved. If the camera is worth owning a brand name bellows is first priority because it is a critical component in the process. Cut corners on a host of other things including those mentioned above but from my view the bellows are the lifeline of the large format camera. Do it one time the proper way and you never have to worry about it again as long as the camera is in service to you. I once heard of a photographer that walked out of his darkroom while developing negatives and took out a pocket knife and hacked the bellows off of his LF camera so they would never again screw him with light leaks.

Cheers!

[Scott --]

Well, just to sum up: Jack is the only one with actual hands-on experience with this product, and is satisfied. Some people were happy, some unhappy with transactions on eBay. That's not new, though none of the complaints seem to have anything to do with the bellows not being light-tight, which seems to be the sticking point in this thread. Seller offers a money back, no questions asked return policy, minus shipping. For a custom-made bellows. In a couple weeks.

Now, my conundrum is whether to go for the less expensive bellows, with a very quick delivery time, or spend more for a bellows that I expect to be similar in quality, with a much longer turn-around... :p

[Michael Kadillak]

Well, just to sum up: Jack is the only one with actual hands-on experience with this product, and is satisfied. Some people were happy, some unhappy with transactions on eBay. That's not new, though none of the complaints seem to have anything to do with the bellows not being light-tight, which seems to be the sticking point in this thread. Seller offers a money back, no questions asked return policy, minus shipping. For a custom-made bellows. In a couple weeks.

Now, my conundrum is whether to go for the less expensive bellows, with a very quick delivery time, or spend more for a bellows that I expect to be similar in quality, with a much longer turn-around... :p

There is one fact that should come into play in this decision process. I have found that people that order large format bellows are people with enormous integrity, honesty and knowledge. If one of these people out of 20 that took the time to provide feedback had a "problem" with this seller I would personally avoid this product so you are not one of the new negative feedbacks they get at a later point in time. Their light integrity is clearly a concern that has been voiced here but that is not the only variable in the bellows game.

As a reference point I know others that sell other photographic products like custom ground glass or other manufactured products that have literally hundreds of satisfied customer transactions and have never even had a hint of any problem as their feedback is glowing with recommendations. This is specifically why they provide historical customer feedback. If you want to ignore the data then it is at your own risk. Personally I would pay more and wait longer for what I know for a fact to be the product that will serve my needs long term. Sending back a product is a totally unpleasant experience that I feel is a complete waste of time. Lastly, your comment about quality being comparable is totally a shot in the dark. You do not have sufficient information to be capable of accurately making that assertion. I have purchased a total of five bellows from Toyo, Turner Bellows, Western Bellows and Camera Bellows and Camera Bellows was head and shoulders better than any of them. That is why KB Canham uses them exclusively for all of the bellows they put on their cameras. They are made to exceptional standards and the craftsmanship is worth every penny.

Good Luck

[Jim Fitzgerald]

As some of you know I'm building a 14x17 camera. I know my limits when it comes to building things. Custom Bellows is building the bellows for my 14x17 for $395.00. It is about 22x22 at the back and tapers to 10x10 at the front and is 36" usable. Many friends and respected camera builders recommended them and that is all I need. They have the absolute best track record and experience, period. This is not a place where I want to try and save a buck.

Jim

[GPS]

There is one fact that should come into play in this decision process. I have found that people that order large format bellows are people with enormous integrity, honesty and knowledge. If one of these people out of 20 that took the time to provide feedback had a "problem" with this seller I would personally avoid this product so you are not one of the new negative feedbacks they get at a later point in time.
...

Good Luck

Well, that is a pretty double edge sword this logic, isn't it? If 19 people "with enormous integrity, honesty and knowledge" are fully satisfied then with the certificate of their satisfaction you can go ahead and buy your bellows there you too...:)

[Michael Kadillak]

Well, that is a pretty double edge sword this logic, isn't it? If 19 people "with enormous integrity, honesty and knowledge" are fully satisfied then with the certificate of their satisfaction you can go ahead and buy your bellows there you too...:)

Not so.

To be a successful company in this business you would likely need to sell a minimum of five bellows a week. That is 20 bellows a month and 240 bellows a year and I could be on the low side of these numbers.

This company should target customer dis-satisfaction lower than 1/2 of 1% to retain customer loyalty for such a customized niche product. You either get your product perfectly dialed in before it leaves the shop precisely to the customers specifications or you find another business that you can in fact reach as close to perfection as humanly possible.

I personally called Camera Bellows a few years back questioning their customer base and general customer satisfaction relative to their business (because no feedback was available) before I ordered my first bellows from them and the kind lady on the phone answering my inquiry told me that in selling over 2,000 bellows, they have never had one displeased customer.

Furthermore in all of the years I have followed this and other photographic forums I have never ever come across or heard of anything said in a negative context of Camera Bellows. I like those numbers and this is the standard that other companies need to meet if they want to make a go in this arena.

It does not surprise me that this new company is using price as their marketing strategy because that is the only thing that have to lure new customers their direction. When price is forced to minimums, it is not uncommon to cut corners elsewhere to carve out a profit. No thanks. I do not like the Money Back strategy. At the ever escalating price of sheet film I do not like surprises.

[GPS]

The Chinese firm obviously doesn't care about your selling philosophy and sells their bellows happily in many types.. And its customers give it good feedback. So much for your theories.

Also, your never ever is very incomplete - if you look harder you'll find on this very forum a post where the poster says he was not satisfied with bellows from Custom Bellows. Incredible as it sounds. So much for your theorizing.

[Michael Kadillak]

Also, your never ever is very incomplete - if you look harder you'll find on this very forum a post where the poster says he was not satisfied with bellows from Custom Bellows. Incredible as it sounds. So much for your theorizing.

I am not familiar with Custom Bellows. The company that we were discussing was Camera Bellows.

If you are going to refute my statement with a factual conclusion of a Camera Bellows customer that was not pleased with their product, please include said post below so that it is clear to everyone that is interested in this statement. I was not aware of this so this way we can all get our facts on the table and deal with them straight up.

[Scott --]

Michael, when Camera Bellows went belly up a few years ago, it was reopened under the moniker "Custom Bellows". Same company, same employees. So you're discussing the same company.

The thread referenced is here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=70383&highlight=%22custom+bellows%22). Glad it was referenced, 'cause it has more positive experiences with the HK supplier.

[Michael Kadillak]

Michael, when Camera Bellows went belly up a few years ago, it was reopened under the moniker "Custom Bellows". Same company, same employees. So you're discussing the same company.

The thread referenced is here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=70383&highlight=%22custom+bellows%22). Glad it was referenced, 'cause it has more positive experiences with the HK supplier.

I stand corrected. I was aware that they opened up under new ownership but was not aware of the name change.

Another person in the Toyo thread posted their problem with a camera bellows product and I was very surprised. Guess it could happen.

[Michael Kadillak]

I stand corrected. I was aware that they opened up under new ownership but was not aware of the name change.

Another person in the Toyo thread posted their problem with a camera bellows product and I was very surprised. Guess it could happen.

One of the things this forum is very good about is conveying dissatisfaction of products and service from its members. Lord knows any number of post have been made relative to this subject so all can be aware of a potential problem.

[Michael Kadillak]

Let us know how it all works out with the alternative bellows down the road. I would be interested in your comments on this subject.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

So, with all of the comments here I will be sure to add a review of my 14x17 bellows when I receive it from Custom Bellows.

Jim

[Michael Kadillak]

Please do Jim.

I will be the first to admit that when I looked at this seller all I saw was a third party in Hong Kong that is nothing more than a third party facilitating these pure knock off product transactions for a myriad of electronic parts and everything inbetween.

Purchasing a replacement bellows for such a quality camera like a Linhof Technika for $76 seems just to good to be true, but that could be just me.

[Scott Davis]

Mike- I think they must make it up on volume, because they only do bellows that fit stock patterns it seems. I contacted them about making a bellows for my 12x15, and they told me they could not do anything that big or that custom. They must have templates for common cameras that they use. If that's the case, I can see how they could do them for a low price - no need to measure or calculate - just follow the pattern and do it by rote. Labor costs would be low because you'd only need semi-skilled labor at best.

[Michael Kadillak]

I would love to hear of the follow up on this post when said bellows are received and used for a reasonable period of time. Specific questions would focus on durability in use and quality of materials for the dollars expended - does the buyer feel that the value received was in line with the dollars expended?

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Michael, I got an e-mail from Custom Bellows today and my 14x17 bellows is on the way from England. I'll let everyone know how they look.

Jim

[Scott --]

Well, truthfully, I only consider the cheap bellows briefly. I ultimately decided to rely again on Sandeha Lynch (http://www.sandehalynch.com/) for the bellows. And I just got word that the original bellows have made it to him (http://wp.me/pWENv-4l). (!!!)

I'm cheap by nature. Po' boys have po' ways. And I'm not completely ag'in cost cutting on bellows. But Sandeha is really good, offers a wide selection of colors, and stands by his product wonderfully. Very likely that all of my bellows business will go through him; I've bought probably a dozen from him so far, between LF and MF folder bellows, and have 8x10 and WP cameras in-process that will need new bellows, too.

I received word through someone on my blog that the HK bellows he'd received were paper-thin and not very robust. This is counter to what others here and elsewhere have said, which leads me to think there are several HK/Chinese suppliers at work here. Knowing which you're dealing with would be troublesome at best. In the long run (and even the short run), I'd rather deal with Sandeha.

[Ramiro Elena]

What's the cost for 8x10 bellows with Sandeha? I've seen some of the work he's done for you and it sure looks nice.

[Sandeha]

Best thing is you contact me directly at sandehalynch AT yahoo DOT com. I have general prices but there's a huge variety of draw, tapers and so on that I can only confirm a price if you give me the details of what you need. I do the older wooden cameras, not modern studio cams; for rail-cams you're honestly better off with a machine-made product.

My materials are thin, but not super-thin, and in a few cases replacement bellows to the original length may not be possible. For example in some folding cameras the new bellows may not compress like the originals. However, my first concern is to ensure that the bellows are 100% lightproof, ie, you can hold a flash gun right up to it and nothing will show through. I pretty much only use my LF in the studio and that means lights.

Colours available for large format are Bright Red, Dark Green, Royal Blue, and Black. Do get in touch if you're interested, but be aware that I do this part-time only.

Incidentally, about seven years ago I built a 4x5 and got my bellows from Camera (now Custom) Bellows.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/Sandeha/large_format/th_IMGP6071a.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/Sandeha/large_format/IMGP6071a.jpg)

I bought their cheaper vinyl version. I found the price expensive, though being a UK customer this included VAT at 17.5%, even on the postage. The bellows were good, no doubt about it, but the material was certainly fragile and a rip in one corner while fitting them to the frames would have been catastrophic.

If there are frames on your cam it's best you send them and let me fit them to the bellows. :)

[Michael Kadillak]

Well, truthfully, I only consider the cheap bellows briefly. I ultimately decided to rely again on Sandeha Lynch (http://www.sandehalynch.com/) for the bellows. And I just got word that the original bellows have made it to him (http://wp.me/pWENv-4l). (!!!)

I'm cheap by nature. Po' boys have po' ways. And I'm not completely ag'in cost cutting on bellows. But Sandeha is really good, offers a wide selection of colors, and stands by his product wonderfully. Very likely that all of my bellows business will go through him; I've bought probably a dozen from him so far, between LF and MF folder bellows, and have 8x10 and WP cameras in-process that will need new bellows, too.

I received word through someone on my blog that the HK bellows he'd received were paper-thin and not very robust. This is counter to what others here and elsewhere have said, which leads me to think there are several HK/Chinese suppliers at work here. Knowing which you're dealing with would be troublesome at best. In the long run (and even the short run), I'd rather deal with Sandeha.

Thanks for sharing the process of your decision and where you found a solution. There is nothing more satisfying than being able to support a craftsmen among us.

Thanks for your contribution Sandeha. When I need a bellows I will surely check with you.

[Ramiro Elena]

I wasn't aware you were part of the community Sandeha. Mine is an Eastman View No.2 8x10 and I do keep the old bellows. I'll contact you with details. Thanks!

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Just a follow up to this post. I have my 36" draw bellows for the 14x17 installed on the camera. The bellows from Custom Bellow is first rate. It is light weight and compresses to about 1 1/2". Very well made, I love it.

[Scott --]

A follow-up from me, too. The bellows from Sandeha arrived today (url=http://wp.me/pWENv-4I). Needed negligible fitting before installing. They're beautiful and fit like a glove.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5172/5468559179_f0a628189e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5468559179/)
Asanuma, bellows installed. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott--/5468559179/) by Scott -- (http://www.flickr.com/people/scott--/), on Flickr

Aside from a little lag in mail service on the US side of things, things went perfectly smooth. I'm working on an 8x10 Seneca now (well, in a couple weeks), and will be using Sandeha again for those bellows as well.

[jp]

I have this guy making some bellows for me right now for my century. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Jim Ormond
7454 Henbane Street
Etiwanda , CA 91739
909-980-0606

I could have built them myself to save some money, but rarely is the first time I do something I get professional results, even if I am capable. That usually comes with practice and experience. Theoretically, I could have become a good woodworker building my own kitchen cabinets, but my wife is happy I hired it out because they came out really good and it's actually completed.

Thus I decided to hire it done instead of build bellows perhaps twice to get what I wanted. It'll be the most expensive part of the camera project so far except for the lenses. It's a small price compared to all the other equipment and expenses of the hobby.

I got the bellows, and they are nice. Much classier looking than the original ones in terms of texture; sorta silky black. They are lighter in weight too, and compress further (for potential shorter focal length) too. The old ones were compressed to about 5" thick, the new ones compress to about 2".
He attached them to the original wooden mounting frames for me.

[Graybeard]

I got the bellows, and they are nice. Much classier looking than the original ones in terms of texture; sorta silky black. They are lighter in weight too, and compress further (for potential shorter focal length) too. The old ones were compressed to about 5" thick, the new ones compress to about 2".
He attached them to the original wooden mounting frames for me.


Jim Ormond at Western Bellows just delivered a relacement bellows for my Ansco 5x7 and I'm quite pleased with it. Jim fitted the new bellows to my original frames and it fit the camera perfectly, a five minute installation.

I second the commments made by jp498. The new bellows is a different material and far more flexible than the ones originally furnished on the Anscos (5x7 and 8x10); it will compress quite a bit more as well.

Jim's turnaround time was two months.

[Shen45]

I have just received a bellows from ecbuyonline2008 and the quality is excellent. His communication was very good and the bellows shipped quickly. I bought one of the Linhof replacement bellows for a DIY project I'm starting. From time of order to arrival here in Australia was just over 2 weeks. I don't have a Linhof but others who have used this person indicate this is a good replacement for the bellows on that camera.

[Frank Petronio]

I got a red one for $89 US for my beater Technika. It seems fine, the attachment was lacking the felt and double-sided tape mentioned in the instructions. The bellows itself is as long as the OEM, nearly as thin and flexible but synthetic. If you have moderate skills and common sense you can get it attached....

[richardhkirkando]

Just ordered the ecbuyonline2008 bellows for my beater Technika too, will add my thoughts once it arrives and I have a chance to try them out. Even if they're crap, I'm sure it's still way better than having to wrap my dark cloth around the 50 year old bellows on my camera every time I use it*.

*which, unfortunately, is something I've actually gotten quite used to - the only camera I've ever had with perfect bellows was a 1929 Graflex. Oh man, these cheapo ebay bellows are going to be a treat.

[Frank Petronio]

Luckily the Technika is very well engineered and has mechanical bellows attachments rather than just a prayer and glue like most cameras....

[Michael Roberts]

I just noticed, ecbuyonline2008 is now offering custom 10x12, 11x14, and 12x16 bellows....


Mike- I think they must make it up on volume, because they only do bellows that fit stock patterns it seems. I contacted them about making a bellows for my 12x15, and they told me they could not do anything that big or that custom. They must have templates for common cameras that they use. If that's the case, I can see how they could do them for a low price - no need to measure or calculate - just follow the pattern and do it by rote. Labor costs would be low because you'd only need semi-skilled labor at best.

[Barry Kirsten]

I recently decided to try ecbuyonline for bellows for a Kardan Super Color JBL. I figured that his apparently good rating and the $90 price tag, made it a reasonably safe bet.

The bellows arrived from Hong Kong in good time and I was immediately impressed by what I saw. I've since glued the bellows into the two end frames and am ready to go. I must say that I'm very impressed. The material seems to be a good quality nylon, fits perfectly for size, and of course is light-tight ;) .

I can see no reason why these bellows should not be long lasting with normal usage. On my experience I'd highly recommend this guy (name's Rudy Wang). 10/10. Hope this is helpful.

Barry.

[vinny]

I asked Ecbuyonline if their bellows are ir proof. He said they don't use that type of fabric. I'm looking to replace my chamonix 45n-2 universal bellows with an ir proof set.

[David Karp]

Some observations that might be interesting.

Over the years, I have purchased three replacement/new bellows from third party bellows makers. The first was a new bellows for an old Improved Seneca Whole Plate camera made by Jim Ormand from Western Bellows. The second was for an old A/B/C ARCA Swiss 5x7 back to reduce to a modern A-S 171 front format frame. This one was made by Rudy of ECBuyonline on eBay. The most recent was a whole plate bellows for a custom Whole Plate back that mounts on my Discovery rear function carrier and also reduces to the 171 front. This one was made by Custom Bellows in England. Also, I have owned view cameras (with their bellows) made by Cambo, Walker, ARCA Swiss, and Graflex.

The best of these bellows was the one made by Jim Ormand, who is now retired. The fabric is light, light tight, flexible, and rigid enough to hold itself up when the camera is fully extended. The folds are precise and it is beautiful in every way. The workmanship was perfect. Based on my observations of the bellows from Rudy, Custom Bellows, and my current cameras, I would have to say that they are all well-made and approximately equal. The Custom Bellows material is not as lightweight or as flexible as the material Ormand used. It may even be heavier than the material Rudy used. I am not sure why they did not use their super lightweight material found on Canham cameras. Nevertheless, it is a good bellows. The folds on Rudy's bellows are at least as nice and precise as those on the Custom Bellows product. His product also compresses perfectly.

This is just as an update, being able to compare what I received from Rudy and Custom Bellows side by side. Based on my experience I would not hesitate to use Rudy again.

I was not sure where to post this. We have several threads on this topic. So, in case anyone wants to jump back and forth, here you go: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?125518-Chinese-made-bellows&highlight=chinese+bellows
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?99935-Bellows-Experience-with-the-replacement-bellows-on-eBay-for-their-8x10-Kodak-2D

[Patrick Gauthier]

I just received new bellows from Rudy (ECBuyonline) for an ebony SV45Ti and they are stunning. The seams for these particular bellows are barely visible and properly placed on the underside of the bellows.

Of particular note, Rudy also makes the bellows frames for ebony cameras (at least the 4x5 models) and they are of strikingly similar material and build compared with the original frames.

In terms of customer service, Rudy and his associate, Jukie, were very responsive to e-mails and typically responded within 12 hours (e.g., our last exchange I got a response in 10 minutes).

[xkaes]

I asked Ecbuyonline if their bellows are ir proof. He said they don't use that type of fabric. I'm looking to replace my chamonix 45n-2 universal bellows with an ir proof set.
The bellows on my TOKOs are dyed pig skin, and I've never had a problem with IR film. This begs the question -- What types of bellows "fabric(s)" would not be IR proof?

[Colin Graham]

I ordered some custom bellows from Rudy. They were made exactly to spec, and they look really good. They really nailed all the dimensions. There's no twist in the bellows, both openings are perfectly square to one another. No wrinkles, bubbles, or glue voids in the fabric, and all the folds are flawless. The seam at the bottom is on a long bias which is barely visible and it doesn't add any extra resistance when compressed. I've made a lot of bellows and they really put all my efforts to shame. Great resource.

[Michael Kadillak]

Esthetics aside, are they light proof and will they be durable enough to stay that way as as a function of time?

Friend got burned in Death Valley by modest light leaks at the inside seams of his bellows going down this road rendering his negatives useless. My point? The durability of the materials is as much a part of the process as the workmanship in assembling them. I would rather have light proof durable bellows that are not picture perfect over pretty colored eye candy bellows that break down in no time. The light weight material used by Camera Bellows for Canham cameras I know for a fact will not break down under the stress of usage and stay pliable and light proof for many years. I will gladly pay double to Camera Bellows any day of the week because IMHO 99% of the time you get what you pay for over the long haul. I find it much like buying insurance against the failure at the most inopportune time with my photography. Much like my friend that got burned, I do not want to come back from a trip having invested time and energy toward a desired outcome and be surprised by strange things happening with my negatives. Learned that lesson years ago.

[Colin Graham]

Mine don't leak, after installing them I spent 15 minutes in a pitch dark room with a 100 watt bulb inside in the bellows. Down the road, who knows. I always test gear for light leaks before an important outing, or simply as a part of routine maintenance.

Does Camera Bellows offer a guarantee that they will never develop pin holes or other leaks?

[Michael Kadillak]

Mine don't leak, after installing them I spent 15 minutes in a pitch dark room with a 100 watt bulb inside in the bellows. Down the road, who knows. I always test gear for light leaks before an important outing, or simply as a part of routine maintenance.

Does Camera Bellows offer a guarantee that they will never develop pin holes or other leaks?

They don't have to because they have a global presence as a corporation and would be toast if their bellows failed anomalously. That said I am confident that if something anomalous happened, they would make it right. My friend was offered an apology by the subject of this post and a replacement when he asked for a refund. He called Camera Bellows who he said he should have called in the first place commenting, "why would I want to take a second chance with what I know failed?"

It takes 15 minutes or longer to acclimate your eyes to darkness properly to ascertain minor light leaks. Who has that much time to spend on activities that one should never need to partake in?

[Jac@stafford.net]

I asked Ecbuyonline if their bellows are ir proof. He said they don't use that type of fabric.

IR transparency concerns me. I had some early disappointments, but that was in the days of Kodak's High Speed Infrared which was super sensitive. Regardless, proceed carefully and please let us know how it works for you.

Being burnt twice, today I use a camera with a sliding steel sleeve instead of a bellows for IR. I only use IR for certain geological apps where penetrating haze is necessary. I'm not interested in its artistic effects.

For example here is a view (http://www.digoliardi.net/alma_good_1.jpg) the human eye cannot see due the persistent atmospheric haze due in part to the Mississippi's river's humidity rising into the atmosphere. Infrared did the job. (I will rephotograph it with a normal lens. I live in the bluffs at infinity. Normally not visible.) The camera was this - a 3" aerial lens in an all alloy body (http://www.digoliardi.net/printex-mod.jpg). I will not use it again for the view posted.

Again, please share your experience.
Good luck,
Jac

[Colin Graham]

They don't have to because they have a global presence as a corporation and would be toast if their bellows failed anomalously. That said I am confident that if something anomalous happened, they would make it right. My friend was offered an apology by the subject of this post and a replacement when he asked for a refund. He called Camera Bellows who he said he should have called in the first place commenting, "why would I want to take a second chance with what I know failed?"

It takes 15 minutes or longer to acclimate your eyes to darkness properly to ascertain minor light leaks. Who has that much time to spend on activities that one should never need to partake in?


15 minutes in the dark is plenty of time, at least for me. I can easily spare 15 minutes a few times a year doing this kind of preventive maintenance. You don't need very much time to catch a leak if the source light is bright enough, the bellows are fully extended, and the room is truly dark.

As for the rest, had I realized that you have 15 posts in this thread I wouldn't have responded. Your antagonism towards this seller is a little odd, and doesn't seem to be based on anything except deductive fallacies. Brand loyalty is fine, and in the case of Camera Bellows it's probably well-deserved, but it is not evidence of the inferiority of another product.

[Michael Kadillak]

15 minutes in the dark is plenty of time, at least for me. I can easily spare 15 minutes a few times a year doing this kind of preventive maintenance. You don't need very much time to catch a leak if the source light is bright enough, the bellows are fully extended, and the room is truly dark.

As for the rest, had I realized that you have 15 posts in this thread I wouldn't have responded. You antagonism against this seller is a little odd, and doesn't seem to be based on anything except deductive fallacies. Brand loyalty is fine, and in the case of Camera Bellows it's probably well-deserved, but it is not evidence of the inferiority of another product.

I am contributing to this post for the benefit of future readers that may want quality control with established bellows materials to at least consider. If this individual produced his bellows with the synthetic material Canham bellows uses in the bellows they put on their camera I would be all over it, but the price would likely be indifferent to Camera Bellows. My point is that the lower price point likely comes for a reason. As is always the case you and everyone else is free to follow your chosen course of action unencumbered. Retrospectively speaking over the years I wish I would have had the benefit of respondents that were willing to share their experiences that do not necessarily agree with the general trend of a post that was presented in a pragmatic straight forward manner. Unfortunately, we are in an era where unless someone just agreements with the post, they are looked down upon. I just see things differently and feel the exchange of divergent opinions wherever and however they manifest themselves are good for all to consider. Again, I am not digging on the maker. I just question the quality of the materials he is employing in his bellows as the reason he has such a low price point which is what my friend found out the hard way. All I want to do is focus on making photographs with as little noise and ancillary distractions as possible.

[Tobias Key]

I bought a set of bellows about five years ago from EC buyonline, and they started to pinhole in the corners after about 3 years use. The holes were very small and I could fix them by painting the corners of the bellows with fabric paint, but they were big enough to ruin negatives if I was shooting in bright conditions. It did take me a while to pin the problem down though because I thought I wouldn't have a problem with 'new' bellows. The bellows still look cosmetically perfect, so chances are you wouldn't think to check them until you had a problem. I use my camera about once a month, so there is a chance the problems could come sooner if you used your camera more regularly.

[xkaes]

I know my bellows, fortunately, blocks IR light, but this discussion has convinced me to check my bellows more often -- especially if I am hiking into any area where I know I will never be again. The check is easy and quick in the darkroom -- along the lines of checking my engine oil. It not only tells me if I have a leak or burning oil, but let's me know how dirty it is.

[Colin Graham]

I bought a set of bellows about five years ago from EC buyonline, and they started to pinhole in the corners after about 3 years use. The holes were very small and I could fix them by painting the corners of the bellows with fabric paint, but they were big enough to ruin negatives if I was shooting in bright conditions. It did take me a while to pin the problem down though because I thought I wouldn't have a problem with 'new' bellows. The bellows still look cosmetically perfect, so chances are you wouldn't think to check them until you had a problem. I use my camera about once a month, so there is a chance the problems could come sooner if you used your camera more regularly.

That's very disappointing to hear, but thanks for the information.

[Michael Kadillak]

That's very disappointing to hear, but thanks for the information.

My friend who shoots weekly experienced his bellows failure in four months similar to Tobias's comment. The failure was at the bellows creases and it was a series of small pinholes consistent with structural degradation at this point across many of the pleats. He was photographing in Death Valley which very likely forced the issue front and center. He showed me some of his negatives disappointed that was clearly something very wrong and my suggestion to check his relatively new bellows was the last thing on his mind.

My Canham 810 woodie is going on 15 years and not even a hint of a pin hole in the bellows and I photograph at least three to five full days just about every month consistently. It is the last thing on my mind and they have never let me down so I do not even bother to check.

[Mark Sawyer]

Throwing in my two cents worth: I bought an 8x10 bellows from ecbuyonline2008 maybe three years ago. They were poor quality, pieced together from small scraps of fabric, with bubbles, wrinkles, and glue residue showing. Later when I mentioned it here on another thread, other members told me that the seller sends out bellows like that occasionally, and you have to complain and send them back to get the higher quality you were promised in the listing. By then I'd waited too long, so I just lost out. Hardly the way to build a good reputation for your business...

[pjd]

I bought an 8x10 2D bellows from the seller in Japan (Tokyo photo), came to regret it. The first bellows I received looked very well made, but was 2 inches shy of full extension. It turned out they didn't have a rear extension rail to test their bellows fully, they said nobody had mentioned it before. I had to send them a photo of their bellows on my camera as proof - after reviewing that photo they apologised and offered refund or replacement - I opted for replacement, though this meant me paying a second lot of shipping, to send the first bellows back.

Waited for them to make a new jig, or whatever it involves - the replacement bellows was certainly long enough, but the biggest folds inside the rear standard looked a bit odd. I kept it and wish I'd just had my money back, it's lost shape quite badly. I contacted them again, they offered a refund if I sent it back - but that way I'd have paid about $70 in shipping and still wouldn't have a bellows.

If you buy from them, make sure they've tested the bellows you are buying fully, at the max extension you want to use. If you are ok with a shorter bellows the first set I received would have been just fine. They have some nice touches, new frames included which are pre-drilled, light weight - but my faith in Japanese technical excellence took a heavy blow with that purchase!!

I wish I'd just bitten the bullet and had a new bellows made by Custom Bellows, I later read somewhere that they have the original designs for most bellows. You get what you pay for, most often.

[Luis-F-S]

I've bought 3 bellows from Custom Bellows up to 11x14 and they've been perfect and fairly priced! I've never seen an advantage of going anywhere else. You get what you pay for!

[Ari]

My own experiences: I've bought several bellows from Rudy (ecbuyonline), including a custom job for a Toyo 810M. These were red, thinner material than normal, and extra long (900mm).
All were a perfect fit, well-made and durable. The Toyo bellows also included the frames, which were supplied by Rudy.
Out of, say, 7-8 bellows from Rudy, only one didn't work (both ends were too small), and it was quickly replaced by the correct size.
So, nothing but good things to say about ecbuyonline.

[tgtaylor]

I bought a used extra long (750mm) bellows from Japan so that I could use the 480 and 610mm lens with the 4x5 Toyo ROBOS but they arrived with a zillion pin holes. I contacted the seller and he promptly refunded the purchase and shipping charges and told me to keep the bellows rather than sending them back so I ended-up having the hardware for new bellows which I bought from Rudy. Rudy didn't charge extra for the long version and the bellows look works perfectly.

Thomas

[xkaes]

So, nothing but good things to say about ecbuyonline.

These comments are all good to hear because Rudy is a financial supporter of my two, small, large format websites. He didn't need to do it, he just thought it would benefit our community of odd-balls!

http://www.subclub.org/toko/

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/ (http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/)

[Michael Kadillak]

I bought a used extra long (750mm) bellows from Japan so that I could use the 480 and 610mm lens with the 4x5 Toyo ROBOS but they arrived with a zillion pin holes. I contacted the seller and he promptly refunded the purchase and shipping charges and told me to keep the bellows rather than sending them back so I ended-up having the hardware for new bellows which I bought from Rudy. Rudy didn't charge extra for the long version and the bellows look works perfectly.

Thomas

I simply marvel at the latitude a certain percentage of large format photographers maintains for a business operator that clearly does not feel a need to do any semblance of quality control over what leaves his shop and charges extra shipping for screw ups as long as the price is low. The earlier comment about "thinner than normal" bellows material was the epitome of my point about just maybe that is not a category that one would want to differentiate ones self with given the Uber sensitivity of 400 speed film. Just saying......

Back to the darkroom.

[xkaes]

I simply marvel at the latitude a certain percentage of large format photographers maintains for a business operator that clearly does not feel a need to do any semblance of quality control over what leaves his shop and charges extra shipping for screw ups as long as the price is low.

This Forum allows you to set up a simple poll -- as I have -- to get a rough estimate of your "certain percentage of large format photographers". Easy to spout off and easy to determine if true. That would give you, and us, a better perspective than "the Uber sensitivity of 400 speed film" -- whatever that means. But that's yet another poll.

Here is his current feedback:

172324

So maybe, on second thought, another poll isn't really needed. Been there, done that.

[Michael Kadillak]

This Forum allows you to set up a simple poll -- as I have -- to get a rough estimate of your "certain percentage of large format photographers". Easy to spout off and easy to determine if true. That would give you, and us, a better perspective than "the Uber sensitivity of 400 speed film" -- whatever that means. But that's yet another poll.

Here is his current feedback:

172324

So maybe, on second thought, another poll isn't really needed. Been there, done that.

Topic has a plethora of factual information on the topic at hand so from my perspective the mission has been accomplished.

[xkaes]

Topic has a plethora of factual information on the topic at hand so from my perspective the mission has been accomplished.

Aye, Aye, Captain!

[Ari]

Michael, maybe you misunderstood my post.
The bellows were a custom job, and part of the customization was my request for thinner material; Rudy obliged and the bellows were well-suited to the camera I had, which had also been customized somewhat.
Knowing his usual product, I felt that having a thinner material for bellows would ensure that the camera still folded easily; the 810M usually carries 650mm bellows, not 900mm.

[David Karp]

I simply marvel at the latitude a certain percentage of large format photographers maintains for a business operator that clearly does not feel a need to do any semblance of quality control over what leaves his shop and charges extra shipping for screw ups as long as the price is low. The earlier comment about "thinner than normal" bellows material was the epitome of my point about just maybe that is not a category that one would want to differentiate ones self with given the Uber sensitivity of 400 speed film. Just saying......

Back to the darkroom.

Michael, I think you misread the quote above your post. Thomas purchased a used bellows from Japan. It was the bellows with pinholes, rather than a bellows from Rudy. The seller refunded the purchase price for the used bellows from Japan. Rudy then made a bellows to attach to the frames that were salvaged from the pinhole ridden used bellows from Japan. Thomas, the purchaser, is satisfied with Rudy's bellows.

[Jay Wolfe]

Michael seems to be dealing with “a random sample of one,” while the rest of the world is dealing with the universe.

[Michael Kadillak]

Michael, I think you misread the quote above your post. Thomas purchased a used bellows from Japan. It was the bellows with pinholes, rather than a bellows from Rudy. The seller refunded the purchase price for the used bellows from Japan. Rudy then made a bellows to attach to the frames that were salvaged from the pinhole ridden used bellows from Japan. Thomas, the purchaser, is satisfied with Rudy's bellows.

No, I read the post precisely as it was expressed. The first line - "The Seller" in reference to the post. Tokyo Photo was a go between. The Seller then attempted to correct the mistake and mucked it up. The contributor stated in retrospect the better course of action would have been the stable Plan B after the shipping costs started to roll up. Not exactly sure how that is a satisfied customer.

The comment above about having to ask for the best workmanship or make sure that the length is sufficient is BS from a service provider in a niche industry. The age old business axiom - "Under Promise and Over Deliver?" still rings true if you want to stay in business.

[rorye]

I have bought 4 sets of bellows from Rudy over 7 years and I'm happy with all of them
.

[OKAROB]

I purchased 2 bellows from Rudy in December. I am very please with the fit and quality of the bellows and material. I ordered one for a 8x10 Kodak Master View and another for a Toyo 810m. Rudy had to have both of them made so it took almost a month for them to be delivered, not a complaint but to just let everyone know how long it takes if they have to be fabricated. The material they use is thicker than both of the original bellow material. For the Toyo I had to purchase screws that were 1mm longer for the front frame M2x4mm. Once I got those screws assembly was much easier. You do have to study how the original bellows were mounted to the frames. The Toyo Bellows were much easier to mount than the Kodak Master View. The Kodak Master View are glued on while the Toyo are just screwed on. I used contact cement on the Kodak Master. View so it must be done right the first time. It might be worth it to see if Rudy will attach the bellows to the frame for a Kodak Master View camera if you are not handy and good at figuring things out. So as of right now I am really pleased at the quality of the bellows from ecbuyonline! Rudy and Jukie were a pleasure to do business with and communications was excellent! I have four other cameras and the only bellows I like better are my leather Fatif ones (those are a work of art!). I must say the price is good and the manufacturing quality was outstanding.

Robert

[David Karp]

I second having Rudy glue the bellows to the frame. I sent my ARCA Swiss front frame and self-made rear frame to him and he did excellent work gluing them together.

[Neal Chaves]

Toyo made two sizes of bellows frames for the 4X5 cameras (and the front of the 810M and 810G). A larger size frame and bellows was introduced with the 45G2, 810G2, the 4X5 Robos and the 810M2. Toyo states that the reason for the change was to allow increased movement capability, which I am sure it does. However, I also find that use of a recessed lensboard with an older bellows on some of the newer cameras, like the Robos, is very inconvenient.

I rebuilt an 810G and ordered a new bellows from Rudy with the new front frame size. Apparently he can only supply Toyo 8X10 bellows with the older, smaller front frame size so that is what I used. On the 810M and G this makes no difference. Rudy's bellows material, as are the Dynatect, is somewhat thicker than the original, inferior Toyo material so the factory frame screws are too short to catch. Rather than trying to scout up longer scews, I simply counter-sink the plastic frame screw holes a bit (aprox. 1 mm) with a drill. There is plenty of material to work with.

[scheinfluger_77]

I have bought 4 sets of bellows from Rudy over 7 years and I'm happy with all of them
.

Im having trouble locating this seller on eBay. I’ve seen him before so i’m familiar with the name, but can’t bring anything up on Advanced search. Any current ideas anyone?

[scheinfluger_77]

Found it!!!

[scheinfluger_77]

General query—I emailed ecbuyonline2008 this weekend about a bellows. Someone with the name of Jukie replied and sent me a link to an eBay listing with a seller name of mytongguy, located in Hong Kong. Email address is ecbuyonline@foxmail.com. Doesn’t look like the same guy, does anyone have current info on ecbuyonline2008?

[Patrick Gauthier]

General query—I emailed ecbuyonline2008 this weekend about a bellows. Someone with the name of Jukie replied and sent me a link to an eBay listing with a seller name of mytongguy, located in Hong Kong. Email address is ecbuyonline@foxmail.com. Doesn’t look like the same guy, does anyone have current info on ecbuyonline2008?

I don't know about mytongguy, but when I ordered my bellows last september from Rudy through ebay (as ecbuyonline2008), I dealt with both Rudy and Jukie via e-mail. They work together. Jukie e-mailed me from ecbuyonline@foxmail.com.

[Ron (Netherlands)]

To revive this thread which already has lots of info on ordering new bellows: I'm looking for someone who can make bellows which have a bit of the old fashioned look. Looking at pictures from ecbuyonline2008 and custombellows, their products do look the same, and what somewhat dissuades me, is that their product have quite a plastic look (guess they use the same kind of fabric).

Does anyone have experience with fire1007 ? - its another Ebay seller - and although he has lots of positive feedback, non of the buyers seems to actually buy bellows but only other kind of photographica. He/she seems to use a different kind of fabric, which tends to have a more classic look.

<edit> just found this thread:https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?157084-14X17-Fire-Studio
where it is stated that its an importer in the US (Blaine/Washington) of China made goods.

[Tobias Key]

To revive this thread which already has lots of info on ordering new bellows: I'm looking for someone who can make bellows which have a bit of the old fashioned look. Looking at pictures from ecbuyonline2008 and custombellows, their products do look the same, and what somewhat dissuades me, is that their product have quite a plastic look (guess they use the same kind of fabric).

Does anyone have experience with fire1007 ? - its another Ebay seller - and although he has lots of positive feedback, non of the buyers seems to actually buy bellows but only other kind of photographica. He/she seems to use a different kind of fabric, which tends to have a more classic look.

<edit> just found this thread:https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?157084-14X17-Fire-Studio
where it is stated that its an importer in the US (Blaine/Washington) of China made goods.

I ordered a set of bellows from Custom Bellows for my Wista DX - they have the look of split leather although I have no idea what they actually are made of. Their website is http://www.custombellows.co.uk/ current email is custombellows@hotmail.com, I talked to a guy called Keith.

[wager123]

Hi get in touch with this guy he made two sets of bellows for me and after 8 yrs they are still like new www.sandehalynch.com/camerawork/bellows.php
Mitch

[Tin Can]

Why not ask Custom Bellows if they have what you want

When I had 3 bellows made for my Deardorff Studio 11X14 I picked the OE USA supplier that made the originals

That was 8 years ago and they went out of business, a Rochester NY Co, not KODAK

I sent them my original bellows and my new DIY frames that match OE

They exactly copied the 1929 fabric type, construction and installation using nails, no glue

I also kept the well worn OE bellows for evidence

Maybe somebody some decade will...

[Ron (Netherlands)]

I talked to a guy called Keith. thanks Tobias, I have contacted him also - he is able to do the job, but looking at their current work it tends to look a bit too plastic to me.


Hi get in touch with this guy he made two sets of bellows for me and after 8 yrs they are still like new www.sandehalynch.com/camerawork/bellows.php
Mitch thank you Mitch, I didn't know that source, so will contact him/her with some questions.


Why not ask Custom Bellows if they have what you want Thanks, As said I've asked them, but they need something to copy, however my camera came without the original bellows. Further, their current product seems a bit shiny from the outside, more plastic like - which may be fine in use, but is not good enough when restoring a vintage camera in my view.

[Tin Can]

Any new bellows will not be NOS or OE

Is restoration of anything 100% correct

doubtful as high end paintings are often ruined by 'experts'

Good luck

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Any new bellows will not be NOS or OE

Is restoration of anything 100% correct

doubtful as high end paintings are often ruined by 'experts'

Good luck

No you're right, not 100% of course, perhaps even far from 100%, but that would not hold back me from looking at others than custombellows.... others might be able to provide a more classic look.
What I will do next is asking the different suppliers, even custombellows, to provide a sample of their fabric, so I can actually can see what I'm paying for - from their photos its hard to tell.

<edit 1> already one supplier has promised to send a sample of the fabric used!
<edit 2> a 2nd supplier has promised to send a sample of the fabric used and a 3rd one denied!
<edit 3> Sandeha told me he doesn't make bellows anymore for LF camera's.

[Michael Kadillak]

I ordered a set of bellows from Custom Bellows for my Wista DX - they have the look of split leather although I have no idea what they actually are made of. Their website is http://www.custombellows.co.uk/ current email is custombellows@hotmail.com, I talked to a guy called Keith.

Second this course of action. At the end of the day this is quite a simplistic set of business variables in play. The cost of bellows is the price of materials and labor. People that make bellows at low prices do their best to find less costly suitable materials and inexpensive labor and when they do so it can work fine. When the lower cost materials do not hold up the skill level of the person making them is immaterial. Camera Bellows is a company that does not skimp on the materials or the labor and the bellows they produce stand tall. That is why a number of camera manufacturers including KB Canham and Linhof I believe use their services. I believe a quality bellow is an investment on par with your camera investment toward your photographic vision. The difference in price is very small and a small price to manage the risk of performance as a function of time. Buying a second set of bellows blows the cost differential savings out fo the window if the bellows fall short of expectations. A risk I am not willing to take. Good Luck

[Ron (Netherlands)]

The difference in price is very small and a small price to manage the risk of performance as a function of time. Buying a second set of bellows blows the cost differential savings out fo the window if the bellows fall short of expectations. A risk I am not willing to take. Good Luck

Reading this I guess you're really missing what is important for me, and this is not the price. I don't rule custombellows out - but I like a broad perspective/mindset - If I have to pay let say about GBP 200 (current custombellowsprice without import VAT) then I'm willing to pay that to a US or Chinese manufacturer as well. Custombellows says she can supply synthetic looking bellows - not everyone is happy with those. If you are happy with those; fine. Further custombellows needs an original to copy ...so thats not going to work for me either.
Thanks anyhow but the search goes on...

[Tin Can]

NOT trying to push you into anything

I want to know what Custom Bellows made these from, they have square corners like mine

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?154478-Rebuilding-a-Deardorff-11x14-Studio-Stand&p=1561458&viewfull=1#post1561458

[Michael Kadillak]

Reading this I guess you're really missing what is important for me, and this is not the price. I don't rule custombellows out - but I like a broad perspective/mindset - If I have to pay let say about GBP 200 (current custombellowsprice without import VAT) then I'm willing to pay that to a US or Chinese manufacturer as well. Custombellows says she can supply synthetic looking bellows - not everyone is happy with those. If you are happy with those; fine. Further custombellows needs an original to copy ...so thats not going to work for me either.
Thanks anyhow but the search goes on...

My experience is they (Camera Bellows) will do everything possible to accommodate your specific needs. The synthetic bellows material is what KB Canham uses on their 5x7 metal camera. I asked Camera Bellows to make me a straight taper bellows for my Linhof TK 45S (I open up two sets of levers on the camera to take the bellow off and put them on) and they work great. My Linhof 8x10 Linhof Karden Triplex they made me two sets of replacement bellows out of a lighter bellows material. They need the end frame for the bellows to attach it to but not the original bellows. Show them a picture of what you are interested in and they can execute on that. I have previously cut the original bellows off of the frames to make the package smaller and lighter. I bet Camera Bellows have made at least eight bellows for me over the years.

[Michael Jones]

Further custombellows needs an original to copy ...so thats not going to work for me either.

Like Michael, that has not been my experience with them. I send the frames and spec the shape, length, and material; they do the rest. I encourage a conversation, telephonically for via email, to see if they can accommodate your needs.

Good luck with your search.

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Like Michael, that has not been my experience with them. I send the frames and spec the shape, length, and material; they do the rest. I encourage a conversation, telephonically for via email, to see if they can accommodate your needs.



They need the end frame for the bellows to attach it to but not the original bellows.

Indeed It may work for you all, but you're referring to typical modern plate camera's (Linhof and the like - that indeed make use of the more synthetical bellows material) with detachable bellows with frames at the front & back - since the vintage camera's don't make use of those frames, I can't send them such templates.

Oh well, I've asked 3 suppliers if they can send samples of their fabric used and if they can make bellows without templates for front and back frames since my camera makes no use of them.
In the meantime, one already promised to send some. I've asked the same question to custombellows.

[maxhart6]

Yeah i bhought some lensboards from ECbuyonline, they were pretty decent!

[r.e.]

I want to purchase a bag bellows for an Arca-Swiss F-line camera with 171mm lens boards. Custom Bellows in the UK will make the bellows, but I have to supply the frames. I suppose that I could hire someone to make copies of the frames on my standard bellows, but there's some machining involved and I suspect that this option would be expensive.

There are a couple of eBay vendors that have been mentioned earlier in this thread, but there doesn't appear to be recent discussion about the quality of their bellows. These vendors are ecbuyonline2008 and mytongguy. It's unclear whether these are different vendors or two accounts for the same vendor. Both accounts advertise Arca-Swiss 171mm bag bellows.

Input on these eBay vendors would be appreciated, as would be any other suggestions. An effort is also being made to determine whether Arca-Swiss, currently on annual vacation, will still supply 171mm bag bellows.

eBay store for ecbuyonlne2008: https://www.ebay.com/str/ecbuyonline2008/Camera-Bellows/_i.html?_storecat=2305208016

eBay store for mytongguy: https://www.ebay.com/str/mytongguy/Bellows/_i.html?_storecat=14819509010

Thanks.

[BrianShaw]

I think, but not certain, that they are two accounts for same business. It seems confusing from their profile (and some emails) about where they are located and from where they ship. I’ve bought from both with the past 6 months and both were shipped from Hebron KY. Flawless transactions and great quality products.

[r.e.]

I think, but not certain, that they are two accounts for same business. It seems confusing from their profile (and some emails) about where they are located and from where they ship. I’ve bought from both with the past 6 months and both were shipped from Hebron KY. Flawless transactions and great quality products.

Thanks, good to know that you've had good experiences with them.

I've asked ecbuyonline2008 about fit. The bag bellows frame in the photos in this eBay listing is quite different in design from an Arca-Swiss bellows frame: NEW Wide Angle Bag Bellows 171x171mm For Arca Swiss 4x5 Large Format Camera (https://www.ebay.com/itm/273021575304?hash=item3f915aa088:g:tygAAOSwSrNaSCYA)

I'll post further when I have a response.

[abruzzi]

I’ve bought a lot of misc things from ecbuyonline2008 because for a very small premium many of their things are shipped from the US, meaning a week to deliver rather than a month. The only bellows I bought from them was for a Master Technika. Installation wasn’t too hard, but the Technika doesn’t have frames, so the bellows are attached directly to the camera. Quality seems good, but I’ve only had them in place for 4 months, so I can’t comment on longevity. For my technikardan, since I had the frames, I shipped them to Custom Bellows, and let them install. Overall the small premium was worth it to not have to futz with installing.

[Tin Can]

Good to know

I have bought other gear from EC

I often get China made stuff from Kentucky very quickly


I think, but not certain, that they are two accounts for same business. It seems confusing from their profile (and some emails) about where they are located and from where they ship. I’ve bought from both with the past 6 months and both were shipped from Hebron KY. Flawless transactions and great quality products.

[r.e.]

If you look at the eBay listings, both ecbuyonlne2008 and mytongguy are selling what they call "eTone" brand products. It turns out that there's a website: eTone Photo (https://www.etonephoto.com)

From the "About" at the bottom of the web page:


Since 2008, we have started from a small workshop and sold photographic equipment online. In 2016, Boya eTone e-Commerce Co.Ltd was established, and"eTone®" trademark was registered in the United States and China in the same year. We are committed to developing and selling large format photography equipment, including customized camera bellows. In 2018, we was authorized the global general agency of Shanghai GP3 B&W film. We welcome all dealers to cooperate with us. Please click "contact us" to contact us.

[r.e.]

Thanks, good to know that you've had good experiences with them.

I've asked ecbuyonline2008 about fit. The bag bellows frame in the photos in this eBay listing is quite different in design from an Arca-Swiss bellows frame: NEW Wide Angle Bag Bellows 171x171mm For Arca Swiss 4x5 Large Format Camera (https://www.ebay.com/itm/273021575304?hash=item3f915aa088:g:tygAAOSwSrNaSCYA)

I'll post further when I have a response.

I've received a response from someone named Cassie who has asked for a photo showing "the bellows interface frame" for a 171 Arca-Swiss camera. As it happens, I have such a photo from from an Arca-Swiss leather bag bellows, which I've sent her. As can be seen from the photo below, the frame is quite different from what ecbuyonline2008 shows in its eBay listing.

I think that this is something to be careful about if one is ordering from these people. Somewhat to my surprise, Cassie also wants to know whether an Arca-Swiss F-Line camera has standards made of the plastic known as Bakelite, which their bellows apparently won't work with. I'll update when I hear back, but the eBay listing photos and Cassie's response to my question are not building confidence.

Given post #107 just above, as well as similarities in the listings, my working assumption is that the ecbuyonline2008 and mytongguy eBay accounts are run by the same people.

219192

[r.e.]

Further to the post just above, I've heard nothing further from ecbuyonline on the difference between Arca-Swiss's bellows frames and the frames that their photos show.

For me, the question is probably now academic. Yesterday, I purchased an Arca-Swiss F-Line bag bellows second-hand from Europe, which should arrive on Friday. If it's in the condition advertised, my problem is solved. However, I wanted to post an update on my dealings with ecbuyonline. I'm quite sure that the bellows frames that it shows in its photos will not work with Arca-Swiss standards.

[BrianShaw]

You probably did the right thing!

[r.e.]

Further to the post just above, I've heard nothing further from ecbuyonline on the difference between Arca-Swiss's bellows frames and the frames that their photos show.

For me, the question is probably now academic. Yesterday, I purchased an Arca-Swiss F-Line bag bellows second-hand from Europe, which should arrive on Friday. If it's in the condition advertised, my problem is solved. However, I wanted to post an update on my dealings with ecbuyonline. I'm quite sure that the bellows frames that it shows in its photos will not work with Arca-Swiss standards.

It's now September 2nd and I still haven't had a response to my question. The bellows that I purchased second-hand arrived yesterday. It's in excellent condition, so I won't be following this up further.

[BrianShaw]

Yay… you got what you needed. Enjoy!

[Neal Chaves]

I rebuilt and resold a number of Toyo 45G and 810G cameras and fitted them with bellows from ecbuyonline. The quality was very good, but the ecbuyonline bellows are considerably thicker than the single layer Toyo bellows. Either longer frame screws are required, or the screw holes in the frame have to be counter-sunk slightly.

Now I install only Dynatect bellows on my personal cameras. They are more expensive, but worth it I feel, and they are easier to install. Dynatect bellows are all synthetic, double layer but are the same or only very slightly thicker than the Toyos and mount right up to the frames.

https://dynatect.com/product/protective-covers/bellows/folded-bellows/

The easy way to have a Dynatect bellows made is to remove your old bellows from the camera or frames and send it to them to duplicate.