Films For Vintage Look

[Two23]

I've been diving into photo history for the past half year, reading up on people like Talbot and Henry Jackson. I've been looking over their photos online, in a few books that I've bought, and have seen a few other actual prints from mid 1800s in museums. I like the look. This year I've been shooting a c.1937 Voigtlander Bessa and now a c.1914 Kodak Special No. 1 (both 6x9) using Ilford HP5. The uncoated lenses (both antistigmats) are giving me a big part of the look I want, but there's another elusive quality that I'm not getting. Reading further I learned that the old wet plates they used weren't sensitive to red light but the newer "pan" film I use is. That's part of it. I've thought about shooting wet plates, but just don't see that as very practical for me. After all, I live in a place that's below freezing (well below, LOL!) much of the year and I'm an outdoor shooter. So, I've begun looking for oddball film of the type that B&H doesn't sell. I intend to use 4x5 sheet film in my Shen Hao, and am searching for a pre-1880 vintage lens for it. (Barrel lens, of course.) I've been finding "ortho" films that sound interesting. They aren't sensitive to red, and have an ISO 3. The other film that might work for me is Efke ISO 25. The low ISO will help to give me exposure times I can count with a stop watch. SO, anyone have any suggestions? How are these films (or others) in use? What's a good film for a guy who is too lazy to get into wet plates?


Kent in SD

[Jim Noel]

Ilford Ortho is faster. any ortho Lith film will approach the look..
You mention the speed of "3" for some ortho films. That is significantly faster than the sensitizers used by Talbot, Jackson and other early workers. The slow speed is what smoothed out flowing water, showed movement in the trees, etc.
If you truly want to get the "look", you will need lenses from the period also.
To get the "Talbot" look you will need to make salt prints, not gelatin silver.

[Chauncey Walden]

Try this: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/12545-Adox-ORT25-Orthochromatic-4x5-25-sheets?cat_id=404

[dwross]

Gelatin dry plates are easier to make than wet plates, but probably not enough so to get you to consider d.i.y. :) so if you use a blue C5 or C4 filter with regular pan film, you will get a close approximation of color-blind (i.e. UV-only sensitive) emulsion. You should try ortho film, too, but I'm guessing its look isn't as retro as you're aiming for.

Great fun to you. The old lenses are a blast to shoot with.
d

[EdWorkman]

Try a blue filter, it will cut the speed and get you close to a "pre ortho" look. If you are using an "ortho film with speed near 3", i assume you are trying 'ortho-litho" that has a basic high contrast emulsion. Filters on a non-lith emulsion should give a better "old" look and less hassle to attain continuous tonality.

[Two23]

Great suggestions. I am familiar with filters and have them, but didn't think of it. Blue filter makes perfect sense. I'll try it out with my HP5 since I already have it.


Kent in SD

[CG]

Try a blue filter ... You beat me to it. That's just what I was thinking.

[Chauncey Walden]

I tried a sharp cutting blue on pan film but it is not the same as using ortho. Please don't confuse ortho and ortho-litho as they are two different animals.

[Two23]

Please don't confuse ortho and ortho-litho as they are two different animals.

Who is selling ortho in 4x5 now? Can you give me a link? I would give it a try if you think it will do what I want.


Kent in SD

[seabird]

Who is selling ortho in 4x5 now? Can you give me a link? I would give it a try if you think it will do what I want.



Freestyle have ortho under their "specialty" B&W film heading: both Adox and Efke brands

See for eg http://www.freestylephoto.biz/c407-Black-and-White-Film-Specialty-Films

Cheers

[rguinter]

I've been using Adox 25 and have come to really appreciate the look.

Don't know if this is the look you are trying to reproduce. But I really like the depth and detail it gives.

Example attached.

Bob G.

[jnantz]

use paper, instead of film.
flash it, or if you can get fogged
old paper, even better.
expose it between asa 6 and 25 ..
and process it in exhausted developer and a water bath.
you can either scan the negatives, or contact print them onto
another sheet of paper ...

portraits are a piece of cake too, as long as your subject isn't too jittery ...

easy + cheap

[nolindan]

Ortho film is sensitive to green and blue. To make pan film behave like Ortho you need a cyan filter. The easiest way to get a cyan filter is Rosco gel.

However, late 1800's photography was pre-ortho and the film was only sensitive to blue. Ortho film won't give the same look -- but you can get close with a deep blue filter. If you look at photos from this era you will notice foliage is very dark - almost black - as green didn't register well on the film.

If you want a tintype or Daguerreotype look you need to shoot through a UV filter. Sometimes in tintype and coloidon portraits the irises of the sitter's eyes will be white - a very spooky look - as the pigment, although appearing blue in visible wavelengths, is very reflective in the UV.

Discussion on colors in wet plate photographs:
http://thesewingacademy.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=579.0

[rguinter]

Ortho film is sensitive to green and blue. To make pan film behave like Ortho you need a cyan filter. The easiest way to get a cyan filter is Rosco gel.

However, late 1800's photography was pre-ortho and the film was only sensitive to blue. Ortho film won't give the same look -- but you can get close with a deep blue filter. If you look at photos from this era you will notice foliage is very dark - almost black - as green didn't register well on the film.

If you want a tintype or Daguerreotype look you need to shoot through a UV filter. Sometimes in tintype and coloidon portraits the irises of the sitter's eyes will be white - a very spooky look - as the pigment, although appearing blue in visible wavelengths, is very reflective in the UV.

Discussion on colors in wet plate photographs:
http://thesewingacademy.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=579.0

Nicholas: I like spooky.

So the use of a UV filter with ortho film sounds interesting.

Do you have any suggestions for a specific filter/film combination?

And maybe an example photo to post that shows the effect?

If so would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

Bob G.

[Lynn Jones]

Everythng was sensitive to Blue, Blue-Violet, and UV through sometime after 1873 when Prof. Hermann W. Vogel invented the orthochromatic emulsion (Vogel was also the first known professor of photography in Berlin in the 1860's). The ortho emulsion was very much higher in speed in blue/UV and so in the early years a yellow filter had to be used so that the efects of green sensitivity could be sensed

Dr. Miethe of Agfa invented a panchromatic emulslion in 1903. It was first effectively used by the Lumiere Brothers to create the Autochrome plates (a true RGB color positive plate)in 1907. The first published photographic color magazine cover was from an Autochrome by National Geographic in 1907.

If you want to have an early look but with modern sharpness and granularity, use a blue 47 or 47B color separation filter on panchromatic or orthochromatic films (a gel will work better than a glass filter, glass will actually remove some of the UV. I personally like to use a CC50Cyan filter with pan films in order to get a good ortho look on pan film without searching about wildly for ortho film.

Lynn

[Brian Bullen]

I too have been trying to achieve that vintage look, so I started experimenting with Arista II ortho litho film with some success. Overall, I like the look and the price can't be beat but cutting each sheet to fit the holder is a slight pain. Another bothersome issue for me is uneven development. More experimenting will hopefully cure that problem.

5x7 AristaII iso5
developed in Pyrocat M
Palladium Print


http://brianbullen.com/bbwebfoto/rrbridge.jpg

[dwross]

Brian,

That's truly lovely. You've really captured the look and feel of the old emulsions. For comparison, Kevin Klein made a similar image with a handmade colorblind emulsion dry plate. http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/DryPlate/Recipes2/DryPlatePart3.htm.

'Two23'/Kent: Kevin's in North Dakota.

d

[Brian Bullen]

Denise,

Thank you for the compliment and thanks for the link to Kevin's photograph. The image truly looks as if it were taken 130 years ago!