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Scott --
4-Nov-2010, 12:00
Hi, all -

I'm pondering a whole plate project in the immediate future. I've shied away from the format until now due to the film costs, but I have half a box of Arista 8x10 film that would be perfect for cutting down to WP. Having never trimmed film before, though, I've gotta ask - what's involved? How hard is it to do? Whatcha all use to trim it? Tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

Sal Santamaura
4-Nov-2010, 12:25
It pays to visit the home page:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/5x7.html

Scroll down about 80% of the way. While Tuan discussed 5x7, what he wrote is equally applicable to 6-1/2 x 8-1/2 inches.

jeroldharter
4-Nov-2010, 15:11
I have never cut down film. But if I did, I would certainly use an ATN Viper. I am a new convert having been skeptical previously. But now that I have one, I can't imagine managing film in the dark without it.

frotog
7-Nov-2010, 06:40
I like to leave this up to the pros (film material handling and repackaging companies)...much less hassle and perfect, dustless results.

Michael Kadillak
7-Nov-2010, 07:31
Not a problem.

First you need a Rotatrim trimmer. Then you need cotton gloves and a night vision monocle.

Leave the IR off of the monocle and bounce a IR LED light bank off of an adjacent wall to insure no film fogging and go for it. This is how the professionals do it and it.

Richard K.
7-Nov-2010, 07:41
Scott, I use a Rotatrim cutter with the optional(?) alignment edge. I first get a piece of scrap or developed "official" WP film (film that came from a Ilford or Kodak box) to set the alignment for the first cut. Have a 3 nest box open to receive the first cuts. Take the 8x10 (or whatever!) film and place it in position emulsion side up (to prevent scratching of the emulsion as you position the film) by placing against the bottom ledge simultaneously against the alignment bar. When I'm placing the film into postion, I first move the cutting head well away from the bottom and lift the clear plastic retaining strip up to allow the film to position without rubbing against it. Once everything feels snug, slowly make the cut but feel for and exert enough pressure on the film to prevent slippage. Take the wanted piece and place it into the nesting box. Go to the next sheet from the pile you placed in an easily in the dark reachable location and repeat but first move the cutting head away from the bottom. Once you have done this to every sheet in the pile, close the 3 nest box the usual way and turn on the lights. Throw away the cut strips (unless you used B I G film and saved the cuts in another 3 nest box). Get the exemplar piece of WP film and adjust the alignment bar for the next (last) cut. Repeat the previous procedure. That's it! :D
Let me know where I confused you and I will try to explain better...

Richard K.
7-Nov-2010, 07:48
I should have added that by making your 2 cuts away from the notch code, you preserve it! What Michael suggests above is a good idea but it's not really necessary if you are careful.

Alternatively, you can just use scissors in the dark but I've never had a straight cut this way...:rolleyes: :) :eek:

Wayne Crider
7-Nov-2010, 09:54
I use a standard Premier paper cutter. On top in the landscape orientation (for my 3x4 negatives, you might tape it vertically) I taped down a piece of photo paper to the edge of the board to give me a flat smooth surface. You might tape it and cut it off. Then I took a piece of black mat board and held it back from the cutting edge for the width (3") of my film cut. ( I took a piece of film cut to dimension and used that as a template for position of the mat.) Now, into that vertical (top to bottom) mat edge, I made a measurement and a cut out for the length of the film (4"); Just like in landscape orientation. You need a good straight left edge. Perhaps rubber cement that down for a dedicated cutter. This cut out was made a few inches down from the top of the mat (that's against the top rail of the cutter) to give me enough edge above to butt my negative against for cutting the width. I cut emulsion side down and use a wipe to clean the photo paper underneath. Then it's cotton gloves and film holders. Make sure you press down enough to steady the negative so the cutter doesn't pull it. You might use a piece of mat. A sharp cutter is preferred. Practice with your eyes closed with printer paper. It's easy to do.

frotog
10-Nov-2010, 08:55
Not a problem.

First you need a Rotatrim trimmer. Then you need cotton gloves and a night vision monocle.

Leave the IR off of the monocle and bounce a IR LED light bank off of an adjacent wall to insure no film fogging and go for it. This is how the professionals do it and it.

Rotatrim? Not the professionals I use. I'll render 200 to 300 sheets of 8x10 to 5x7 at a time and I'd sooner pay them a couple hundred dollars, be assured that the film comes back to me dust free then "go for it" using the method described above. Call Varo Technical Services in West Chester, Pa... you'll be surprised at how inexpensive this is.

Michael Kadillak
10-Nov-2010, 09:11
The more alternatives the better.

My experience is that if you have a reasonable quantity of sheet film to cut down doing it yourself is not that problematic. I have never had an issue with dust in my darkroom.

Larger quantities would easily justify a third party service. I am pleased that frotog has such an entity to consider. The more that we can do to encourage people to consume sheet film the better as far as I am concerned.

cdholden
12-Nov-2010, 10:42
Scott,
Don't you have a half dozen or so 8x10 cameras laying around? Shoot the 8x10 and crop what you don't want... or would that be too easy?

Chris

banjo
21-Nov-2010, 14:43
Hi all
I use a Martin Yale 7000E 12" Paper Stack Cutter
it has a clamp to hold a stack in place!
I cut 25 sheet of 4x5 film down to 23
I have a jig on to cutter so I can do it all in the dark
I cut the 2 1/4 first then turn a 1/4 turn & then cut 3 1/4
then cut the other half the same way then I code notch then
banjo

Jim Becia
22-Nov-2010, 12:16
Rotatrim? Not the professionals I use. I'll render 200 to 300 sheets of 8x10 to 5x7 at a time and I'd sooner pay them a couple hundred dollars, be assured that the film comes back to me dust free then "go for it" using the method described above. Call Varo Technical Services in West Chester, Pa... you'll be surprised at how inexpensive this is.

I have used this service and they did a pretty nice job. I did have a slight problem when I had them cut down 8x10 film into 5x7. For some reason on the 7 inch side, they were slightly long, so the film didn't rest in the film holder quite right. However, in all my shooting with this film, it has never resulted in a problem so I never said anything. The company was great to deal with and the packaging came back first rate. I would use them again.

Before that, I was cutting my 5x7 film from8x10 by using a Dahle rotatrimmer. Worked fine but was time consuming and every once in a while, I'd cut a sheet that was not quite square. Opted to send a hundred sheets to Varo.

Jim

Bruce Watson
22-Nov-2010, 12:44
Rotatrim? Not the professionals I use. I'll render 200 to 300 sheets of 8x10 to 5x7 at a time and I'd sooner pay them a couple hundred dollars, be assured that the film comes back to me dust free then "go for it" using the method described above. Call Varo Technical Services in West Chester, Pa... you'll be surprised at how inexpensive this is.

Curious, but not enough to call them -- do they also notch the film? If they put the proper notch code in the film they cut, they would definitely be worth the price. But any notch to let you know (or more properly, let the C-41 lab tech know) which side is the emulsion side would be good. So... do they?

banjo
22-Nov-2010, 16:00
the thing nice with my Martin Yale 7000E 12" Stack Paper Cutter & jig
it takes about 8 mints to cut 50 sheets of 23 {2 1/4 x 3 1/4} out of 4x5
it takes me longer to get my darkroom ready to do it then it takes to cut
the 50 sheets
Banjo

Jim Galli
22-Nov-2010, 20:04
Here's (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/10481-bulk-lf-film-cutting-loading-aerial-roll-film.html) a page about how I do it. No matter what you do, extra handling means extra dust, extra pinholes etc.

Rayt
22-Nov-2010, 20:11
Rotatrim? Not the professionals I use. I'll render 200 to 300 sheets of 8x10 to 5x7 at a time and I'd sooner pay them a couple hundred dollars, be assured that the film comes back to me dust free then "go for it" using the method described above. Call Varo Technical Services in West Chester, Pa... you'll be surprised at how inexpensive this is.

I didn't know such services existed. Will they also put the notch onto the second sheet? I wouldn't mind getting a few hundreds sheets of 5x8 TMY. Thanks for the info.

Since I don't have a darkroom the only other alternative is to cut down 8x10 in a changing tent. Is this possible or am I asking for trouble?

frotog
30-Nov-2010, 15:36
Varo does not notch. I was a bit freaked out about this at first but now it does not bother me. It's easy to tell which side is the emulsion side just by the natural curl of the film.

Michael Kadillak
30-Nov-2010, 17:46
There is a whole new industry that supports the Creative Memories industry where people get together and put together albums of photographs and other memorabilia. I have seen specialty edge punches that can be ordered in any configuration (such as film notch patterns) and insure that you are always Emulsion Side Up.

frotog
30-Nov-2010, 19:12
...or you could just use a regular old hole puncher. But seriously, it's so easy to identify the emulsion side by the curl of the film that this is not necessary. The less handling the better, right? As for the person processing... I make sure to download all my film so that the emulsion is facing the same way and specify as much on the box. I use Edgar Praus for all my c41 now since he leaves all the labs in nyc in the dust:D ...he's never had a problem with this.

Varo Technical does have an IR room. There's a small additional fee for this (like $15 or something).

Varo Tech is in West Chester, Pa. Phone...610.399.1223 No affiliation other than that of a very happy customer!

Michael Kadillak
30-Nov-2010, 20:39
Thanks for the excellent advice. I will give them a call.

Cheers!

peter schrager
2-Dec-2010, 06:27
do I hear shades of screw TMY in 5x7 for $160 when you can get 8x10 cut down??
definately on my to do list!!
have a great day
Peter