ADOX CMS20 5x4 sheet film

[Adrian Roy]

This my first post, so I'd like to introduce myself.

I'm an English photographer based in Vienna Austria and I'm looking into shooting LF again.

My primary interest is studio based portraiture and am currently researching what the most suitable camera/film combination for this purpose should be.

I have noticed that Adox is now supplying CMS 20 in 5x4 sheets (4x5 in Germany) http://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/filme/planfilme/4x5-inch/adox-cms-20-planfilm-102x127-cm-10-blatt-4x5.html

Originally I was considering shooting 10x8 as the studio I shoot in has one that I'm able to use, although it would be somewhat simpler and more cost effective to shoot 5x4.

I would like to enlarge the final prints to at least 1 metre in width and would appreciate any feedback regarding using the CMS 20 for portraits.

Best regards

Adrian

[asph]

I can't say anything about CMS20, it uses a special developer that is rather expensive, and I'm also a bit sceptical about that advertised 300 lp/mm.. what lens resolves that much?

However I have been using Adox Pan 25 for a bit now. Mainly for architecture, but I have done some portraits aswell. It is extremly fine grained and has a really nice tonality to me. Also it is pretty cheap at 16€/25 sheets. I rate it at ISO 12 and currently develop it in Rodinal 1:50. I'm very happy so far!

[Ben Syverson]

Some Leica and Zeiss lenses can resolve numbers in that range, as crazy as it sounds. However, there is no LF lens that can reach anywhere near that number, due to diffraction.

In LF, the only advantage of CMS 20 over something like TMAX 100 would probably be finer grain. I don't think you'll see any advantage in sharpness.

[A49]

I used the (Adox) Ortho 25 film that should be the same as Rollei Ortho 25. I developed in Rodinal 1+75 and 1+100 for about 10 to 13 minutes. The results can be enlarged 10 times linear without detecting any grain. For 4x5 inch 10 times enlarging would be over 1 m width (1,27m). The sharpness / resolution I get with a Symmar-S 210 mm at f/22 is with the Ortho in Rodinal is as good as to enlarge it 10 times in very high quality for my eyes and about 7 times in ultra-sharp quality. I get with the Symmar at f/22 about 40 linepairs per millimeter of a relatively low contrast target (3 to 4 stops) on the Ortho 25.

With the Adox CMS20 it should all be nearly the same or even slightly better when not considering the price (Ortho 25 is much cheaper I believe and I don´t know if you can develop CMS20 in cheap Rodinal.). Maybe the grain would allow even larger prints with the CMS20 but the resolution will still be limited by the high apertures that you use normally in LF (f/22 and higher) . Due to diffraction you won´t be able to record more than about 65 lppm on any film at f/22. At f/11 which is maybe more suited for your portraits to have enough light, you could theoretically have 130 lppm, but the very, very best LF lenses seem to master about 75 lppm at this aperture or aperture f/16. So resolution cannot be increased too much with any film. I think the differences in resolution betwen CMS 20 and Tmax 400 would not be great in LF. (But the grain will make a very big difference.) In portraits resolution is surely not the most important thing.

The speed I get from the Ortho in Rodinal for pictoral scenes is very low (6 ASA). Could be that you can reach higher speeds with special developers like Rollei Low Contrast. The CMS20 in the special developer should have higher speed (1 to 2 stops). If you have enough light then it makes no big difference.

Best,
Andreas

[A49]

I forget to mention some really important difference between the Ortho and the CMS. The Ortho because of it´s ortho characteristic will render skin tones of "white" skin darker than CMS which is declared as ortho-panchromatic. Conventional Pan (panchromatic) films will show (slighly) brighter skin tones than the CMS or the Ortho.

To shorten my thoughts that I wrote above. If you have enough light for the relatively low speed CMS and even lower Ortho, a fine and well adjusted camera / lens system and a fine enlarger that you are able to handle very carefully and skillfully then you can reach the goal of flawless sharp and free of grain (if desired at all) 1,20 m prints from 4x5 inch with both of the films. But any small problem in handling the chain of quality will reduce your negative / print quality below that. So with 8x10 inch you would have much more latitude for small mistakes and for choosing the film (speed) but surely at higher costs.


Andreas

[Adrian Roy]

Thanks for all the replies, it's most appreciated.

It seems strange that the CMS 20 was made available in sheet film, but not in roll film?

Regarding providing enough light, that shouldn't be a problem, as I can put up to 3k through each head in the studio. So the speed of the film is not an issue or what aperture needs to be used.

I think as the studio already has a 10x8 with a 300mm Sinaron N lens I can use, then I'm going to order some extra film holders next week and give it a go.

If I find that I need a longer objective, then the rental house on the next corner has an ok selection of lenses for 25 euro a day.

I shot some MF BW film last week to see what I liked. FP4, T-max 100, Efke 100, Tri-X 400 & Plus X 125.

I found the Kodak Plus X to be the most interesting. As this is not available in sheet film, what would be a good alternative to this in 10x8 (doesn't have to be the same speed).

Best regards

Adrian.

[Tobias Key]

I'd check what's readily and consistently available in 10x8 in locally and choose accordingly. In Europe Ilford seem most committed to LF black and white film so I guess the choice would be FP4+ or HP5+

[Adrian Roy]

I've checked what is available locally and a few shops stock a little 5x4. Most don't hold any 10x8, it has to be ordered.

I can do that myself from either the UK or Germany and get a much better price (including cost of postage).

Adrian.

[renes]

CMS 20 in 120 roll should be on sale this year too. I got this information from Fotoimpex two month ago.

[Adrian Roy]

I spoke with Fotoimpex before posting here. The lady I spoke with said that she didn't know if it was to be made available in roll film. Hence my question.

I've decided to order a box of 10x8 Fp4 and then see how I get on with that.

Adrian.

[A49]

I've decided to order a box of 10x8 Fp4 and then see how I get on with that.

So you shoot with CMS20 at 4x5 inch and FP4+ at 8x10 inch? If yes, please post your comparison of the results. I would be interested how you did like CMS anyway.

Best of luck for your shoting!
Andreas

[mcfactor]

I shoot Adox Pan 25 in 8x10 and it is fantastic, I havent found a sharper or finer-grained film. I would look into that.

[Adrian Roy]

Hi Andreas, I am only going to be shooting 10x8 at the moment. Although I would consider trying CMS 20 in Roll film when it becomes available.

Mcfactor once I've finished the box of FP4, then I will give the ADOX Pan 25 a try, thanks for the input.

Adrian.

[Athiril]

Some Leica and Zeiss lenses can resolve numbers in that range, as crazy as it sounds. However, there is no LF lens that can reach anywhere near that number, due to diffraction.

In LF, the only advantage of CMS 20 over something like TMAX 100 would probably be finer grain. I don't think you'll see any advantage in sharpness.


One day that may change, we have lenses that are not diffraction limited, so stopping them down simply lowers abberrations and improves resolution, these have been demonstrated a few years back to resolve well beyond the diffraction limit... none are available outside physics research atm however (google search negative refractive index). :)

Though it'll be more useful for compacts and mobile phones imho.