Petzval Lenses & Infrared Film

[rguinter]

Greetings:

Has anyone tried using their Petzval lenses with infrared film? I gave it a try over the weekend. Mostly because the wide open ~f3.5 lens needs a lot of light reduction in harsh daylight to function.

Looks like the concept may have some promise although I'll have to hone my focusing technique a bit. This one on Efke IR 820 at 15 sec exposure with a Tiffen 87 filter. (i.e., had to put the filter behind the lens inside the camera because that's where the threads are on the magic lantern mount that fit my set of adapter rings.)

Just wondering if anyone else has tried this technique and what success (if any) has been had.

Cheers. Bob G.

[Brian C. Miller]

I like that! You need to do some more. :)

[dh003i]

Yes, this is very interesting good stuff!

[brianam]

Love the look Bob. Yes, do keep experimenting with it!

reminds me a little of infrared 120 run through a Holga. It takes a little finessing (read: electrical tape) to IR-proof a Holga, but the results are fun.

[panchro-press]

Hear! Hear!

Dave

[rguinter]

I tried again with a Halloween display. Either not enough contrast in the scene or perhaps the Efke Aura was not the right choice.

I'll try regular Efke IR next and it may sharpen the image.

Anyone else tried this yet? Bob G

[al olson]

Great photos, Bob.

As far as focus correction goes, Rudolf Kingslake (Lenses in Photography) suggests a focus correction of about 0.5 % of the focal length. For a 150 mm lens this would amount to .75 mm correction if you can measure the movement that closely.

From your photograph of the cross it appears that you are perhaps focusing too close based on the fact that the background is way out of focus and the cross is slightly out of focus.

My practice is to focus on the nearest part of the subject or some feature just a bit closer and to let depth of field take care of the focus. I don't use much correction if at all. It helps to use the smaller apertures.

[Brian C. Miller]

I don't have a Petzval, but I have used Efke with other lenses.

The "problem" with Efke and Ilford (and Konica) is that at 820nm, the film isn't in the exact range where IR is reflected like car reflectors. Various plants will show up differently. For your Halloween photo, just print that grass, shrub, and deciduous tree as your maximum density, and let the other stuff fall where it may. The lack of contrast isn't technique, it has to do with the IR range. I have a photo with various species of conifers, and each shows a different reflectance.

Are you using a B+W 092, Hoya RM72, or equivalent filter? A Kodak 29 isn't enough for this film.

[rguinter]

Thanks for comments Brian and Al.

Yes I've had a full summer of experience with various IR films which i have shot (more of) this summer than any other films.

Here's the same shot with a 150-mm Super Angulon. Problems with Petzval for infrared is they are used wide open. And I don't have a shutter to use with it.

So I am experimenting.

Al: I actually did compensate the focus a half mm or so closer focus point for infrared in both photos. Perhaps my particular Petzval is not well suited for infrared. For the cross I focused on the IHS inscription. And that is (about) the only perfectly sharp spot in the negative

But I'll keep trying.

Cheers. Bob G.

[rguinter]

P.S. Forgot to mention.

For use with the Petzval lens I'm forced to use my Tiffen 87 filter. Exposures are about 3-6 seconds with the lens with this filter. Something that can be done with a lens cap the old-fashioned way.

With shuttered lenses I typically use my B&W 092 filter for these films.... BG

[Richard Rankin]

Bob,

If you need a packard shutter to use, I have one I could loan you if it will work for you. I don't know the diameter of your lens hood, but I also have a luc shutter, another packard-like shutter, and a Low Kalamazoo Shutter if you want to borrow one.

I'd love for you to learn this IR stuff so I don't have to spend the money, and then I can ask you questions... I used HIE IR film in 35mm but haven't used the stuff you are using. I also have a true IR filter somewhere (89?) thgat I used on my nikon but would have to check if it is wide enough for your lens.

Cheers,
Richard

[rguinter]

P.P.S. the color shot was done with Ektar 100 4x5-inch.

It is truly a great film. I really hope it stays around a while....

[rguinter]

Richard: I'm communicating with a gentleman in Germany who has adapters for fitting various smaller Petzvals to shutters. Currently on holiday but he promised to get back to me shortly when he returns. If that avenue works out I may purchase one from him and try that.

By the way. That is your lens that made those shots. BG

[Marizu]

I made a self portrait last night on Efke IR 820 Aura using an R72 filter using an unknown petzval which is probably about f4.
I posted the image into November Portraits today. I guess that the 0.5% of focus adjustment will be pretty critical at head and shoulder portrait distances but I'm not sure what to adjust.
Do my bellows need get longer or shorter?
Is it best to adjust the front or rear standard after focusing?

I'd never really worried about this too much before as I have previously used IR for buildings and things that are far away at f11 or f16.

[BetterSense]

You will need to make your bellows longer for IR. If you have a camera that allows it, I think that moving the back standard would be preferable to moving the front standard.

Below is from the Kodak HIE datasheet


Lenses do not focus infrared radiation in the same plane as
visible radiation. Because infrared radiation is longer in
wavelength than visible radiation, the focus point is further
from the camera lens. Therefore, the lens must be moved
slightly farther from the film to focus an infrared image. This
focus difference is most critical when using filters to block
all visible radiation from the film.
Most camera lenses have an auxiliary infrared focusing
mark. Consult your camera manual for the appropriate use.
For best definition, make all exposures at the smallest lens
opening that conditions permit. If you must use large
apertures and the lens has no auxiliary infrared focusing
mark, establish a focus setting by trial and error. Try
extending the lens by 0.25 percent of its focal length beyond
the correct focus for visible light.
For example, a 200 mm lens would require a
0.50 mm extension as 200 mm x 0.0025 = 0.50 mm.

[Marizu]

Thank you for your help.

I made some more portraits using the Petzval and Efke IR 820 and an R72 filter. I posted one of them in December portraits.

The images appear softer focus and more diffuse than if I don't use the R72 filter.
I'm liking the silky skin tones that I'm getting but I'd rather lose the black eyes :)