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sanking
17-Aug-2010, 10:21
Was the Nikkor M made in focal lengths over 450mm. I don't recall ever seeing one for sale but it seems odd that they did not offer a lens to compete with the 600mm Fuji C. Perhaps there were Nikkor prototypes or lenses with other name with a similar Tessar type construction?

Sandy

Drew Wiley
17-Aug-2010, 10:57
Would have been pretty damn heavy by comparison, so I don't see how it would compete with the "compact" philosophy of the Fujinon. The closest thing I'm aware
of in this kind of focal lenth is the Fujinon L series of modern tessars.

sanking
17-Aug-2010, 12:22
Would have been pretty damn heavy by comparison, so I don't see how it would compete with the "compact" philosophy of the Fujinon. The closest thing I'm aware
of in this kind of focal lenth is the Fujinon L series of modern tessars.

Not sure ite would have been that heavy. The 600mm Apo-Nikkor is f/9 and is not all that heavy compared to a Fujinon C.

Would you have the specs for the Fujinon L series?

Sandy

Steve Goldstein
17-Aug-2010, 12:58
http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/index.htm

There's pretty complete info here. It doesn't list my 450mm Fujinon-C with 49mm filter threads. I have an old Fuji catalog at home and can send you photocopies, PM me your mailing address.

Dan Fromm
17-Aug-2010, 13:30
Sandy, according to the two Nikon LF catalogs I have on hand (copyrighted 1982 and 2002-2004) the longest Nikkor-M was the 450. Present in both catalogs.

Drew, I've assembled data on Apo-Nikkors from several catalogs. It seems that the tessar-type 600/9 Apo-Nikkor weighs 775g, the dialyte type 610/9 Apo-Nikkor weighs 1,450g. Both in barrel. My 610 conforms to the catalog. Perhaps you were thinking of the 610.

Cheers,

Dan

Drew Wiley
17-Aug-2010, 14:35
Dan - Apo-Nikkors are Nikkor M are a completely different thing. For one thing, you'd
have to add the wt of the shutter, for another, they were made for a whole different
purpose. I have plenty of Apo-Nikkors, and while they're great lenses in the lab they certainly wouldn't be classified as compact. My 720 is a monster and I haven't even bought a shutter for it yet. Can't imagine it as a realistic substitute in the field for my Fuji 600C. Fuji L's are common up to 420mm, but were all single-coated. Nikkor
M's are MC, so a little better with high-flare lighting. Fuji C's are obviously MC and really superb except for extreme closeup work, but throw such an enormous image
circle that you need to shade them well for 4x5 film. Never an issue for me since I use
them mainly on 8x10. Sometimes portrait photographers prefer the L series due to the
lower contrast and multi-bladed shutters. Don't know if Docter Optics made an MC
Tessar in these longer lengths - maybe, but they'd be rare anyway. And I don't know
the range of the previous Nikkor Q series of Tessars, which would have been
single-coated.

Dan Fromm
17-Aug-2010, 16:24
Drew, there are two types of Apo-Nikkors, tessar type and dialyte type. Up to and including 600 and 610 mm they're all f/9 and in this range at the same focal length (+/- a little) the tessar types are all considerably smaller and lighter. Above 600 mm things get a little complicated because at the same focal length they don't all have the same maximum aperture. The exception and surprise is 1800 mm, there the f/14 tessar weighs nearly 1/3 more than the f/14 dialyte.

I appreciate that shutters aren't weightless.

You raise a point that I thought had been settled. Are 200/9, 300/9, and 450/9 Nikkor-Q taking lenses the same as 210/9, 300/9 and 450/9 tessar type Apo-Nikkors? I thought they're equivalent, but of course could be mistaken.

On this point, Nikon's 1982 LF lenses catalog says that the 300 and 450 "are designed around the renowned Apo-Nikkor lenses and meed the same stringent specifications required for the most demanding reproduction and photo engraving work. Chromatic aberrations are highly corrected across the entire usable spectrum for superior performance. The Nikkor-M series, unlike photomechanical lenses which are corrected for 1:1, are corrected for infinity." So there's your kicker, except that the Apo-Nikkor catalog says that the tessar types "can also be used as ... in connection with general purpose cameras like view-cameras and studio-cameras." I think Nikon was trying to have it both ways.

I also have some (not plenty, alas) Apo-Nikkors, all dialyte types. You're right, they're not compact but they are lighter than, e.g., the equivalent Apo Saphir. They, like my Apo Saphirs, are all excellent at distance. Sort of like Apo Ronars ... Why am I not surprised?

Cheers,

Dan

Drew Wiley
17-Aug-2010, 16:51
DAN - the Apo-Nikkors were obviously made for graphics work, so allegedly had an
optimum performance only within certain magnifications ratios. Fujinon C's and Nikkor
M's are optimized for infinity, however. But in real world use, I've bent the rules with
the Apo-Nikkors with excellent results. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to
putting any of them into a shutter for general shooting, particularly since I have them
committed to lab use. Infinity use of these lenses is therefore something I'd have to
take the word of someone else for; and I do know a few individuals using them as
long-focus lenses for general photog with superb results. I have a pretty good set of
Fuji A's and C's, so don't have a big motivation at the moment to pay for shutters for
the Apo-Nikkors. But given the reasonable prices for these at the moment, someone
is likely to be tempted to try them. But frankly, I don't like anything in a no.3 shutter
for 4x5 due to the effects of vibration. The 8x10 dampens this much better, at least
where a high degree of enlargement is involved. The Fuji C's are remarkable lenses,
and in my opinion nearly as good as the Fuji A's. Superb coatings, so I really don't
know if the reduction of the number of air/glass elements for a multi-coated Tessar
is going to make much difference. I've had multicoated dagors and they had just tooo
much contrast for typical color tranny work.

sanking
17-Aug-2010, 17:02
DAN - the Apo-Nikkors were obviously made for graphics work, so allegedly had an
optimum performance only within certain magnifications ratios. Fujinon C's and Nikkor
M's are optimized for infinity, however.


Drew,

I had a 600mm f/9 Apo-Nikkor that was in an Ilex #5 shutter. It was anything but heavy. Heavier than the Fujinon 600 C of course, but relatively speaking it was a fairly light and compact lens.

Sandy

Drew Wiley
17-Aug-2010, 17:11
Sandy, I guess if you're comparing it to a conventional plasmat it would be light, but
those Fuji C's are really a treat. Hauling a 75 lb pack with the 8x10 up an 11000 ft pk
last Wed was fun, but certainly takes longer to do now that I'm over 60! Getting
more and more weight conscious, since the clock simply isn't going to run backwards.
And these smaller Fuji lenses are more appropriate for 4x5 also, which is obviously part
of my strategy for aging.