Film exposed in hand inspection

[Frank Doering]

When I flew through O'Hare on June 30, I was greeted by a friendly sign at the security checkpoint saying that I could have my film hand inspected if I wanted. I almost didn't ask, but then I thought, why add more x-ray exposure if I don't have to. I handed two boxes with about 120 sheets of exposed 4x5" color negative film to the security officer, explaining what it was and that the boxes could absolutely not be opened. He nodded, took the boxes, said it wasn't a problem and that he would meet me on the other side. As I stepped through the scanner, I saw him take the lids off both boxes.

I don't know how much light got on the film; it's on the way to the lab and I'll know in a week.

Can anyone advise me what I should do about this? I don't want to spend the rest of my life or sanity trying to fight the TSA, but I don't want to let this go. The film represents four weeks of work abroad, much of it in non-repeatable conditions. I have the name of the officer, and my wife witnessed the affair.

[Ash]

I'd report it as soon as possible, put in a complaint, and if you feel like it contact a solicitor for compensation.

[Nathan Potter]

Nasty situation! My condolences. Don't EVER let your exposed film out of your cold, sweaty hands. Unexposed - well - not so critical.

I have some xray proof ,metal coated, plastic sleeves to protect film from xrays. Anyone here ever make use of these? How would these be handled at airports since they would be opaque to the scanners?

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[jp]

Film is round rolls, everybody knows that! :^)

xray proof covering is going to raise all sorts of red flags I'm sure.

Last time I flew with film, I put several pieces of duct tape on the box (one on each side). THat gave me enough time to get through the body/ticket inspection so that I could shout at them not to open it as they were getting the last piece of tape off. Then it came down to their definition of hand inspection (disassemble the box) versus mine (swab) and we didn't get far, so I had them xray it.

If it's a 3-piece box, and your film was in a bag you'll might be fine; you'll have to process it to see. A black plastic film/paper bag inside a 3-piece kodak box is probably about as foolproof as you are going to get.

[BrianShaw]

Film is round rolls, everybody knows that! :^)


Some of these TSA employees are so young they might not know even that much!

[Daniel Stone]

I'm just hoping that I get some old fart TSA agent when I fly out to Iceland this monday. I'm taking ~350 sheets of 8x10(50 being color to boot), + 200 sheets of 4x5.

I'm not letting it out of sight/hands. Bringing a changing bag though, just in case. One of my arms in, the other of the tsa agent.

[B]having a copy of this in your bag:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1035.shtm

will give you the "RIGHT" to a hand inspection if you're flying with "intending to be push-processed". Also if its sheet film will guarantee you the right to a hand inspection(in the USA).

can't be too careful these days, unfortunately some people don't know that film is larger than a 35mm canister ;).


also: I've found that bringing a junk sheet of film of each format you're flying with to show to the TSA agent, so they know what you're flying with in the box

I've just had them swab the outside of the box when I show them the junk sheet of film(if its brand new and un-opened then show that its factory sealed) and that's usually fine with them.

-Dan

[Bruce Watson]

Can anyone advise me what I should do about this?

Yes. Don't let TSA touch your film. Ever. Get to know UPS and FedEx.

[BetterSense]

Super bum deal man. My sympathies. Last time I flew home, I shipped everything ahead via usps (itself not without risk of course). I was really annoyed when I got home and had to wait 3 days before I got my film to start developing it, but I guess maybe it was worth it.

Was the film in internal, black plastic bags? Those are totally lightproof. But I know when I travel my exposed film goes naked into 3-piece Kodak boxen; I don't bother to double-bag.

[Brian Ellis]

You certainly should get your legal advice from a lawyer familiar with all the facts but FWIW, I doubt that there's much point in suing. Apart from legal doctrines like sovereign immunity, all you'd likely recover is the cost of the film. I certainly sympathize, that would be a horrible thing to happen, but a small part of me is also saying "he did what?"

[tgtaylor]

So far, I haven't had a problem with TSA or any international airport upon demanding hand inspection with the exception of Heathrow which, very friendly and very pleasantly, insists that nothing nasty will happen to the film: "I wouldn't blow you!"

The others will merely inspect the rolls if they are open or apply some type of chemical on the wrappers enclosing the rolls or sheets to determine if there is explosives inside with you watching alongside. For exposed sheets, I would advise you to keep them in the lightproof packing that they come in and tape it shut so that you can't just merely open it quickly. But do be prepared to take off your shoes, etc.

Thomas

[Tim Povlick]

I hope the film works out for you. If the person only opened the 1'st layer of box you may be alright.

I traveled to China and Tibet last year and took a 6x7 and film. I had them hand check the roll film. It wasn't to much a hassle for them or me. I used my backpack for 4x5 to carry the 6x7 and gear. I accidentally left two 4x5 film holders loaded with Tmax-100 in a side pocket. After about 8 passes through various x-ray machines I realized they were there in the backpack. I decided to let the experiment run it's course and let the film be xray'ed and not hand checked for the remainder of the trip. It went through 20 xray machines if it passed through one. Some were for rail travel too, not just for the airliners. One of the sheets from this trip was then shot along with a new piece of film, exposed and developed identically. The differences were indistinguishable to my eye. From now on I will just let film pass through the hand carry machines.

Best Regards,

Tim

[patrickjames]

Just put it through the xray, or better yet, send it to yourself. If you are the paranoid type, you can send it via registered mail. If you go that route and it isn't placed in your hands, someone has a huge legal problem. Registered mail is supposed to be kept under lock and key all through its journey.

[Tim Meisburger]

I used to carry a dark bag and try to get hand inspection, but it just confused everyone. I now normally put my exposed and unexposed film in a lead-lined bag and put it in my carry-on (never put any film in checked baggage! I ruined a whole trip's worth with that mistake). I have always expected that the lead bag would raise eyebrows passing through the scanner, but only once out of about twenty times have I been asked to take out the bag. In that case I let them scan the film boxes. I have used the bag in US, European and Asian airports with no problem. Not sure if they still sell them, but I bought two at a local thrift shop last time I was in the US.

[eddie]

i fly alot all over the world with film.

i get there early. my experience has been they do NOT open anything until you are there to watch....then they ask.

i have had perfect luck so far. now i do not care to do all the explaining and what not so i just let them x ray it. no issues (still hand check my high speed butt they are more used to 35mm and 120).

when i do x ray my sheet film i put in in an inconspicuous pocket. they always go for the main pocket (this will give you time to catch up....but as i said they always wait for me). on important stuff i tape the inner box closed and then the outer boxes closed (3 lid boxes). i write on it "do not open in the light. film inside.)

i have all kinds of bigger lenses with me and no one even bats an eye.....

sorry for your lose.

e

[amac212]

Ugh, my heartfelt sympathies to you!! At the VERY least, I hope you get a free trip out of it - - you should tell them that your trip was solely for shooting this film. That will emphasize and make perfectly clear that losing these images, would be like throwing the money for entire trip down the drain and that if this occurs, you expect to be fairly compensated. Good luck on all fronts!

[goamules]

I got my 30 rolls of 35mm hand inspected at the first airport in the US, heading to France and Ireland. They just swabbed a few rolls, and took any that were still in canisters out (do this at home and it's really fast). But - every other airport I gave up. In one I asked for a hand inspection, and gave the ziplock clear bag of film to the worker. He smiled and set it on the x-ray conveyor belt. It's all ISO 400, and the couple I've developed so far were fine.

Eddie, I thought someone in the many airports would want to inspect my giant, bubble wrapped and taped brass lenses, but no one did. You could put a lot of stuff between the glass in a giant petzval, but they never unwrapped one.

[Drew Wiley]

Last trip they went through absolutely everything but very carefully repacked it. On
the return flight, I just let the film go right through the X-ray (twice) and it developed
perfectly. But that was ASA 50 and 100 film. Wonder if sheets of TM400 will do as well? Never had them actually open live film, however.

[Alan Davenport]

Don't let TSA touch your film. Ever. Get to know UPS and FedEx.

Sounds like knowledge gained through a graduate course at the School of Hard Knocks.

Also perhaps the best advice yet offered.

[rdenney]

At the VERY least, I hope you get a free trip out of it

That might have been a possibility back when security was run by the airlines. But now that it is a federal agency, they have no authority and no mechanism for that sort of compensation, even if they are sympathetic (which they probably will be).

The best you might get is some instructions on how to avoid the problem in the future.

It could be worse. You could be a professional musician with an instrument too large to carry on. Tuba players buy expensive insurance to make repairs when, not if, their one-of-a-kind instruments are damaged. They get damaged even when packed in an Anvil case, and that's after paying god-knows-how-much in excess baggage fees because of the weight and size.

At least we can ship the film to ourselves.

Come to think of it, I think I'm going to take the Pentax 6x7 to Idaho with me in a couple of weeks. I think I'll ship the film to a colleague in advance, and then ship it back to myself from there. No need to risk it.

Rick "unwilling to fly with the Sinar" Denney

[eddie]

Eddie, I thought someone in the many airports would want to inspect my giant, bubble wrapped and taped brass lenses, but no one did. You could put a lot of stuff between the glass in a giant petzval, but they never unwrapped one.

the x ray machine could see through them. i watched at the brussels airport as i walked by. they did a couple of manipulations that turned the screen a few different colors. kind of cool really. now i know you can not fill it with "coffee" from holland....:)

[Greg Blank]

In 1998 I went to New Mexico via plane with the 4x5, I took the unexposed boxed film and it was x-rayed. I loaded the holders, in darkbag, or in the hotel room bath room taping the door frame to ommit stray light.

BW was fine, some of the color negative stuff had wierd color and was denser than normal- I attributed to unfamiliar lighting- I shot slide film also and some was more blue, some was dead on- my guess was it was just the higher elevations- my roll film 35mm slides were good.

I was careful regarding leaving film in the sun. I had all my color film processed at Carl's Darkroom in Albuquerque. I Fedex' my B&W back to me on the East coast.

In 2005 I flew to Monterey, I bought my film This time readyloads locally think I called ahead and reserved the film, then Fedex'd it back. If I had had more time that trip probably would have had it processed in California.

With the amount of labs in the US, you really should have it processed before traveling home IMOP. Many places overseas have good labs and film suppliers you just need investigate. If no labs or stores exist, consider shipping separate from your travel.



Sounds like knowledge gained through a graduate course at the School of Hard Knocks.

Also perhaps the best advice yet offered.

[Frank Doering]

Thanks for the sympathy and the kind advice about what to do next time I fly with film. What I need is advice about how to go after the TSA efficiently and effectively.

Re. developing abroad: Last time I tried that was at a well-reputed lab in Berlin in March. They botched 30 sheets by ludicrously uneven development.

Re. sending film to myself: My 25-year experience sending any number of things across the Atlantic is not encouraging.

Re. implications that I am a fool having asked for hand inspection in the first place: (a) I wouldn't have if it hadn't been offered; (b) my foolishness doesn't excuse the TSA one iota.

[GPS]

Thanks for the sympathy and the kind advice about what to do next time I fly with film. What I need is advice about how to go after the TSA efficiently and effectively.

Re. developing abroad: Last time I tried that was at a well-reputed lab in Berlin in March. They botched 30 sheets by ludicrously uneven development.

Re. sending film to myself: My 25-year experience sending any number of things across the Atlantic is not encouraging.

Re. implications that I am a fool having asked for hand inspection in the first place: (a) I wouldn't have if it hadn't been offered; (b) my foolishness doesn't excuse the TSA one iota.

You seem to have certain impatience about getting your wanted advice. What I find strange and dumb is the fact that you didn't even care to answer the most logical question (bad enough you didn't even care to mention it in your first post) about how the film in your box was packaged (see the post n.8)...

[Daniel Stone]

duct tape the boxes before flying. give the TSA something to "chew" on :D before you can let them open it.

-Dan

[rdenney]

Thanks for the sympathy and the kind advice about what to do next time I fly with film. What I need is advice about how to go after the TSA efficiently and effectively.

Re. developing abroad: Last time I tried that was at a well-reputed lab in Berlin in March. They botched 30 sheets by ludicrously uneven development.

Re. sending film to myself: My 25-year experience sending any number of things across the Atlantic is not encouraging.

Re. implications that I am a fool having asked for hand inspection in the first place: (a) I wouldn't have if it hadn't been offered; (b) my foolishness doesn't excuse the TSA one iota.

The TSA is a government agency. Those who work for the TSA do not know a thing about sheet film, and many no nothing about film at all beyond what the TSA public-affairs office publishes. You can stick to your thesis and go to war, but I would suggest that many waves have crashed on that rocky shore. Or, you can realize that the TSA inspectors know nothing about sheet film and do what it takes to work within their ignorance instead of kicking the dirt about it.

That's why you've gotten the responses you've gotten.

Maybe you believe government is too big and powerful, and you would find lots of people who would agree with that thesis. But that is a philosophical argument to be addressed at a higher level than film damaged by one TSA inspector.

I am a government employee and I know what it takes for a government agency to be responsible and to provide compensation. Do you want to make that your full-time occupation? How much money do you have to spend? There is no constitutional guarantee against what was very likely accidental damage to exposed sheet film. I'm not even sure the government can be held responsible for its torts unless personal injury (versus property damage) was involved. If you sued, that fact might result in a summary judgment against you before the civil trial even started. And I do know that the government has to show gross negligence in order to be held liable for their torts, meaning that they had to have actual or constructive knowledge of a defect that caused the injury. It is reasonable to expect an unsealed box to contain light-sensitive materials, even if you present it for hand inspection? Is it reasonable for a TSA agent to know what it means for something to be light-sensitive? Did you tell the agent, "You MUST NOT open this box, or you will RUIN exposed film"? Was the box clearly sealed? Did you assume that the agent would know this through common sense? You have a tough proposition to prove, it seems to me.

Even labs offer no more guarantee against film-handling mishaps than replacement of the film, and they are trained in this particular issue.

These are challenging times for air travel, and it is likely that there is no really good solution. Like I said, I know musicians who risk their $20,000 instruments, with a very high likelihood of damage and at very high cost for both the excess baggage fee and for the insurance they buy to allow recovery. And they are not traveling for fun and getting a check from an insurance company doesn't solve the main problem caused by the damage. Be glad that you have at least some alternatives, and that there may be ways to avoid the problem in the future.

But if you must carry on the battle, knock yourself out.

Rick "who has done a bit of dirt-kicking of his own at times" Denney

[Frank Doering]

Thanks Rick. Yes, I did explain that the boxes contained exposed sheets of film and could absolutely not be opened.

GPS, the film was between two Kodak cardboard sheets, held together by a rubber band, inside standard three-piece Kodak film boxes. Kodak boxes, unlike Ilford's, don't come with reusable light-proof plastic bags inside.

[GPS]

Thanks Rick. Yes, I did explain that the boxes contained exposed sheets of film and could absolutely not be opened.

GPS, the film was between two Kodak cardboard sheets, held together by a rubber band, inside standard three-piece Kodak film boxes. Kodak boxes, unlike Ilford's, don't come with reusable light-proof plastic bags inside.

Frank, hold your axe of war until you get the film back from the lab. Who knows...:)

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks for the sympathy and the kind advice about what to do next time I fly with film. What I need is advice about how to go after the TSA efficiently and effectively.

Re. developing abroad: Last time I tried that was at a well-reputed lab in Berlin in March. They botched 30 sheets by ludicrously uneven development.

Re. sending film to myself: My 25-year experience sending any number of things across the Atlantic is not encouraging.

Re. implications that I am a fool having asked for hand inspection in the first place: (a) I wouldn't have if it hadn't been offered; (b) my foolishness doesn't excuse the TSA one iota.

If you really want advice about "how to go after the TSA efficiently and effectively," you should be talking to a lawyer, not asking for on-line advice from a bunch of photographers.

[David Luttmann]

Hmmm, you have to ask what the average intelligence level is of these people. Let's see....."DON'T OPEN THE BOX".....so they open the box.

I don't know about you, but if they can't follow a simple instruction like that, I don't feel any safety at all in the hands of those people.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

TSA is the best reason yet for an all-digital workflow for commercial photography pros, and Quickloads for those of us still into LF who must occasionally fly.

[rdenney]

Hmmm, you have to ask what the average intelligence level is of these people. Let's see....."DON'T OPEN THE BOX".....so they open the box.

I don't know about you, but if they can't follow a simple instruction like that, I don't feel any safety at all in the hands of those people.

On the other hand, terrorist walks up to the counter with a bomb in a small cardboard box, and tells the TSA inspector--this is FILM, do not open under any circumstances!

When faced with a reprimand from their superiors that might dog them for years to come for not following the stated policy of opening everything, versus obeying the instructions of a person who will be moving on momentarily, the choice for the employee is not too good.

Accepting it for hand inspection knowing that it would be opened despite what was said is the real sin. But I submit that the employee still didn't get it, thinking there would be 35mm cassettes or film rolls or some such inside the box. Sheet film is entirely outside the conception of most people these days.

Again, the point is to accept such ignorance as being unavoidable reality and work around it.

Rick "wishing the film manufacturers would work with the TSA to come up with a real solution" Denney

[Drew Wiley]

Trusting UPS or Fedex not to lose or trash something is pretty naive too. Placing big
letters of "FRAGILE" or "HANDLE WITH CARE" doesn't seem to mean much to either their big conveyor machines or the kind of short-term staff they sometimes hire.
There's no guarantee in any of this, just common-sense options like, pack the hell out of film, ship quickest method, and make sure it was received at the other end and stored in a secure cool place.

[Daniel Stone]

well guys,

I'm flying in 3hours out of LA to Iceland(with M+P), so I can give you guys a run through on doing a hand check once I've reached my lay-over in Boston.

stay tuned :). Pray they understand what 8x10 film is, let alone my fuji polaroid :D.

-Dan

[Ron Marshall]

The UPS solution:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-travel-briefcase-20100705,0,7410211.story

[Merg Ross]

Can anyone advise me what I should do about this? I don't want to spend the rest of my life or sanity trying to fight the TSA, but I don't want to let this go. The film represents four weeks of work abroad, much of it in non-repeatable conditions. I have the name of the officer, and my wife witnessed the affair.

Let it go. Next time, go through the usual TSA scanning process. From my recent experience, you will be better off doing that than handing your film off.

I understand your concern, and last month had my film hand inspected in London at Eurostar. My concern was that the train station might not have had their machines recently calibrated. However, I followed the film, being assured that it would be swabbed, and it was.

As photographers, we sometimes have a paranoia of how our film is handled; at least I do. But for the journey from San Francisco to Paris and London, with the above exception, I allowed the airport security to perform their duty with their machines, and would do so again. They understand that procedure better than being handed bags and boxes of film. All of my film (ASA 400) has been processed and printed without any evidence of X-ray damage.

I hope you have good results from the lab, please report back.

[Daniel Stone]

hey Guys,

I'm writing this from the lounge area waiting to board my flight to Iceland, having just had my film hand checked for the 2nd time in the last 24hrs. Both times(at LAX in Los Angeles, and here in Boston(Logan Int'l)), I came up to the xray terminal, removed the shoes, other general things, etc... and then proceeded to ask for a hand search. Both times went without a hitch, especially here in Boston. They just used the swab pads, and since all the boxes were factory sealed, they just swabbed the outside of the boxes, and along the edges. All clean! Be aware though(maybe its just for my film), but the FP-100C45 I'm carrying all had traces of nitrates for some reason. Maybe whoever handled my film before me went shooting/blasting, etc.. IDK....


but simply asking for a hand check works perfectly fine. I'm paranoid about watching the people swab/touch the film boxes(mostly since I'm a student, and don't have lots of money to spend on film), so I watch them like a hawk.

but being courteous and asking how they're doing can go a long way as well in terms of getting your way with things :). Even just a courteous "hello, how are you today" can really brighten some TSA employee's otherwise dull and 'ordinary' day at the job-place. It also makes them more willing to want to do hand checks again for people like us.

and I'm flying with a LOT of film:

(3) efke 100 8x10
(2) " ... " 4x5
(4) 160nc 8x10
(2) " ... " 4x5
(10) fp-100c45
(20) arista premium 100(plux-x) 35mm
(15) " " 400(tri-x) 35mm
(4) kodachrome 64

so yes, I'm paranoid about my film being handled properly, and having $1000 worth of film in one's bag(close to one month's pay as a college student) doesn't make me all cuddly towards any TSA agents, but you should be nice to them, they're just doing their job.

-Dan

[Merg Ross]

hey Guys,

I'm writing this from the lounge area waiting to board my flight to Iceland, having just had my film hand checked for the 2nd time in the last 24hrs. Both times(at LAX in Los Angeles, and here in Boston(Logan Int'l)), I came up to the xray terminal, removed the shoes, other general things, etc... and then proceeded to ask for a hand search. Both times went without a hitch, especially here in Boston. They just used the swab pads, and since all the boxes were factory sealed, they just swabbed the outside of the boxes, and along the edges. All clean! Be aware though(maybe its just for my film), but the FP-100C45 I'm carrying all had traces of nitrates for some reason. Maybe whoever handled my film before me went shooting/blasting, etc.. IDK....


but simply asking for a hand check works perfectly fine. I'm paranoid about watching the people swab/touch the film boxes(mostly since I'm a student, and don't have lots of money to spend on film), so I watch them like a hawk.

but being courteous and asking how they're doing can go a long way as well in terms of getting your way with things :). Even just a courteous "hello, how are you today" can really brighten some TSA employee's otherwise dull and 'ordinary' day at the job-place. It also makes them more willing to want to do hand checks again for people like us.

and I'm flying with a LOT of film:

(3) efke 100 8x10
(2) " ... " 4x5
(4) 160nc 8x10
(2) " ... " 4x5
(10) fp-100c45
(20) arista premium 100(plux-x) 35mm
(15) " " 400(tri-x) 35mm
(4) kodachrome 64

so yes, I'm paranoid about my film being handled properly, and having $1000 worth of film in one's bag(close to one month's pay as a college student) doesn't make me all cuddly towards any TSA agents, but you should be nice to them, they're just doing their job.

-Dan

Glad it is going well for you. Say hello to M&P for me, glad to hear that the Ash Cloud did not ruin their workshop.

Hope you get a lot of keepers!

Merg Ross

[Daniel Stone]

Merg,

will do. I'm going as 1 of 2 assistants, meeting them later tonight in Rekjavik. I really hope I get a good bit of keepers, lots to photograph! This will be my 1st 'real' outing with the 8x10 KMV since getting it earlier this year(at Michael's recommendation and constant urging :))

thanks!

-Dan

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Speaking of trace amounts of explosives, my two Meridians have a synthetic covering and bellows called Fabrikoid by DuPont that was actually made from nitrocellulose. It's one of the earliest plastics going back to nearly the turn of the century. (Sorta like non-safety film.)

[rdenney]

Speaking of trace amounts of explosives, my two Meridians have a synthetic covering and bellows called Fabrikoid by DuPont that was actually made from nitrocellulose. It's one of the earliest plastics going back to nearly the turn of the century. (Sorta like non-safety film.)

The lacquer on non-silver-plated brass instruments is also made from nitrocellulose (or it was before some manufacturers went to epoxy), but I've never heard of a brass instrument exciting the sniffer at a security check. They usually do get opened for inspection, of course.

Rick "who would have thought nitrocellulose a little hard and brittle for bellows" Denney

[jp]

I'm thrilled UPS is making a business of transporting luggage. I hope lots of people use that and it become a common courtesy of hotels, etc.. to have luggage come UPS. UPS isn't perfect, but it will make flying with film (and other things) much easier. Having to check luggage (such as for a tripod) is a serious pain, especially as I prefer to fly out of an airport that doesn't do electronic ticketing, so the return luggage was a real pain. I'm accustomed to paying UPS for what they do since pre-internet days, so I'd rather pay them to be convenient than pay an airline for inconvenience. I like to travel light and avoid checked baggage, but if you want large format + work basics + clothes, it's sometimes needed.

[Milton Tierney]

That happen to me once 20 years ago. I had dropped off a weeks worth of color work to a lab for processing. Gave the box of 4x5 to the new lab idiot, I stated to leave, turning around and saw this fool open the box. Now, I use large bright orange sticker with the words, “Exposed Film DO NOT Open”. I use that to tape the box shut. The only thing I got was a new box of film.

[Brian Ellis]

Now, I use large bright orange sticker with the words, “Exposed Film DO NOT Open”. I use that to tape the box shut. . . .


If they don't open the box how can they process the film?

[Rider]

It really stinks, what happened. The guy spaced out, probably. I think the hand-inspection sign is meant only for roll film. A box of sheet film can hold too much stuff for them to allow it through without xray.

[Milton Tierney]

They managed to figure it out all my themselves.

[ac12]

I has one TSA agent open the factory sealed box and foil bag that my 120 film was in. To "verify" that what was in the sealed bag was a roll of film. That it was factory sealed did not make a difference, so do not rely on that as a reason they won't open your film. That incident reminded me why I switched to digital. To avoid all this when I travel by air.

[joshdaskew]

My deepest sympathies, hopefully it is still useable.. I have also been travelling and am not sure if this question has been asked and answered but how many times have people put film through an X-Ray and successfully got their film back as expected? I just came back from Japan and they put my bag through THREE times!! WTF!? Grrrrr, have been wanting to ask the question for a while but havent got around to it... Any experience out there? Am somewhat freaking about mine now.. It is all 160NC colour negative. Thanks Josh

[eddie]

josh,

it will be fine.

now a hand inspection involves swabbing the packages for trace amounts of "bad stuff" so there is no need to open boxes.

it has been a none issue for me. never had a problem. they hand check my film/swab it etc. but hey, i am lucky with these kind of situations, boarder crossing etc etc.

[joshdaskew]

Hi Eddie, Thanks for the reply, just to clarify, mine wasn't hand checked, as I have also run into some idiots at security (this is a worldwide phenomen by the way)!!! Was wondering how many times you can actually take film through airports X-Ray without it affecting your film? I know it bulids up over multiple times even though they assure you it is fine.. I am currently in Shanghai and because the expo is on (or it could be all the time) they have an X-Ray at every subway entrance!!! Have tried hiding it as best as possible but sometimes they are on to it and then it becomes even worse because of course then they want to open it!!

I have always gone with the approach of just putting it through and hoping for the best but was wondering how many times is too much? Or is this a question without a real answer because of too many variables? I know that X-Ray strengths vary from country to country (mainly the difference between first-third worlds). Anyone have any experience with this? Is it more pronounced for negs or trannys or it is all the same?

Ok, thanks so much.. Best Regards Josh

[jp]

I don't think there is any easy math for it. You'd have to know the model info, power settings, where the transmitter of xrays is on the machine (as you know inverse square law applies to the field strength just like on flash distance) You might get 4x as much power on one side of your body compared to the other depending on which pocket your film went in. I would guess for health purposes, the dose of people-scanning xrays in public places would be fairly low.

If you want some emperical information for your situation, do some tests. Put one sheet of film away for safe keeping, put another of the same in a black package that goes with you everywhere for a certain realistic amount of time. Develop them both together and see what the effect was.

[Deniz Merdanogullari]

If you are doing 4x5 or 120, just stuff your pockets of your cargo pants and walk right through the metal detector.

35mm film wont work, but then if you are shooting 35mm, chances are you don't care too much for image quality anyways, get it nuked.

[eddie]

josh,

keep the exposures as low as possible. i think they can handle many many many runs through the machines. please be sure to come back here and let us all know how it ended.

i have had film go through like 20+ x ray machines....just to see. it was on multiple flights to and from SE Asia. i even left the secure area to get a few more runs through the machine....and to kill 8 hours in taipei.

[joshdaskew]

Thanks so much for the responses and yep, will let you know when I see it.. Eddie, I have had the exact same idea but never actually put it into action so it is good to know.. Deniz, what do you mean that 35mm "won't work" when going through the metal detector? Ok, thanks again. Cheers Josh

[Merg Ross]

Deniz, what do you mean that 35mm "won't work" when going through the metal detector? Ok, thanks again. Cheers Josh

Probably the metal canister. I had an experience with 120 film in my pockets going into Mexico a few years ago. The alarm kept going off. Turned out that my film was on the old metal spools, not the current plastic.

[Brian Ellis]

If you are doing 4x5 or 120, just stuff your pockets of your cargo pants and walk right through the metal detector.

35mm film wont work, but then if you are shooting 35mm, chances are you don't care too much for image quality anyways, get it nuked.

Before I stopped worrying about the carry-on xrays that's exactly what I used to do (except I didn't wear cargo pants). You can get about 40 sheets of film in a 25 sheet box if you remove the inner foil, cardboard, etc. Fill two boxes, put one in each of your back pockets and you have about 80 sheets of film free of xrays and inspection. If that isn't enough fill another box or two and put them in your front pockets. That's about 160 sheets which should be enough for most trips.

[eddie]

stuff in your pockets generally does not work any more.

the last overseas flight i took they felt up my pockets.....and me...:)

[BetterSense]

If you rolled your bulk film in plastic 35mm cassettes, you could get it through the metal detector in your pocket if you think it's important. I don't stress about (carry-on) xray damage, but I don't shoot a lot of delta 3200 or anything.

[Kimberly Anderson]

Here's what I just did coming from Salt Lake City to Stockholm:

I put all of my 120 film, 40 rolls, still in the factory wrappers/packaging into big zip-loc bags.

I put my full Tri-X 5x7 box that *HAD* been opened into another big zip-loc bag. On that box I put a printed sign that said: "STOP! Unexposed sheet film! Do not open! Please swab! STOP!"

I also printed out the 'Traveling with film' sheets from the TSA website and included them with the 5x7 box, printed side out so that the TSA personnel knew that I knew what their responsibilities were.

I was pleasant, cheerful and they could see that I was trying to make their job easier. They immediately took the three bags from me, asked if I wanted a hand-check and took them straight back to the swabbing machine. No problems at all.

They were very nice to deal with and I would give them an A+ on the Salt Lake end.

[Rakesh Malik]

Hmmm, you have to ask what the average intelligence level is of these people. Let's see....."DON'T OPEN THE BOX".....so they open the box.

I don't know about you, but if they can't follow a simple instruction like that, I don't feel any safety at all in the hands of those people.

The TSA is about theatrics, not security.

[philip964]

Film in boxes and asking for hand inspection didn't work well even before 911. Certainly wont work since. I use a lead pouch, sure they cant see though it and they bump the exposure to try, but it seems to work. I have never noticed anything unusual using the pouch. Its certainly better than trying to have them not look inside the box and have an entire trip ruined.

[rguinter]

I used to carry a dark bag and try to get hand inspection, but it just confused everyone. I now normally put my exposed and unexposed film in a lead-lined bag and put it in my carry-on (never put any film in checked baggage! I ruined a whole trip's worth with that mistake). I have always expected that the lead bag would raise eyebrows passing through the scanner, but only once out of about twenty times have I been asked to take out the bag. In that case I let them scan the film boxes. I have used the bag in US, European and Asian airports with no problem. Not sure if they still sell them, but I bought two at a local thrift shop last time I was in the US.

My experience has been different. I've travelled perhaps fifty times with a backpack of MF/LF cameras and film. I have been asked to open my backpack every time except one.

So what I always do is put less sensitive films in a separate gray plastic tub with keys combs, cell phones, and other easily identified devices/items. That way the technician does not spend a lot of time with the stuff under the beam x-raying the film to death.

And I ask for hand inspection on certain unopened roll films that I perceive to be more x-ray sensitive.

So far no problems. Bob G.

[rdenney]

My experience has been different. I've travelled perhaps fifty times with a backpack of MF/LF cameras and film. I have been asked to open my backpack every time except one.

So what I always do is put less sensitive films in a separate gray plastic tub with keys combs, cell phones, and other easily identified devices/items. That way the technician does not spend a lot of time with the stuff under the beam x-raying the film to death.

And I ask for hand inspection on certain unopened roll films that I perceive to be more x-ray sensitive.

So far no problems. Bob G.

First off, I don't think the X-ray is on when the technician halts the belt to review images more carefully. There is a red light on the top of the machine that shows when the X-ray is on, as a safety device probably required by OSHA.

Nor do I think they increase the intensity to punch through opaque objects. They do reportedly do that with checked bags, but those are in more fully enclosed machines that are safer for the operators. If they can't see something sufficiently in the regular security line, they inspect it by hand.

I traveled just last week with a backpack full of Pentax 6x7 stuff, and was not required to open the pack either at Dulles, Portland, or Spokane. That surprised me, actually, especially at the smaller airports, which are usually more picky. I got no indication that the pack received any special consideration. I was carrying only Velvia 50 and I didn't worry about exposure.

Rick "adding some data points" Denney

[BrianShaw]

surprised me, actually, especially at the smaller airports, which are usually more picky. I got no indication that the pack received any special consideration.


A couple of years ago my bag, with Hasselblad, got LOTS of special consideration at a small airport -- Redding, CA. The TSA guy looked at the xray machine screen, called over his friend, pointed and whispered, then pulled my bag aside for "special inspection". The guys asked if I had a Mamiya in the bag. When I said it was a Hasselblad they asked if they could visually inspect it since they have never handled a Hasselblad. I actually had a fairly good time giving them a chance to handle the camera. They admitted that their inspection was from a photographic curiousity perspective, not from an airline security perspective. Generally, though, I've found TSA to be quite disinterested in the cameras I send under their Xray machine.

[Frank Doering]

This is what the damage looks like. It's pretty much the same for one box of 34 sheets; the other box is less severe because it was packed more tightly.
http://doeringphoto.com/temp/forumpics/bleed.jpg