Overwhelmed by the weight of 8x10 setup

[chacabuco]

Having recently taken the plunge into 8x10 I feel a little overwhelmed with the weight and size of the gear. I have a Toyo 810M which is not the lightest of cameras to begin with and picked up an older Bogen 3058. Also a Gitzo 1570 head.

Can anyone reccommend a somewhat smaller/lighter tripod that would still be sufficient for the Toyo - which weighs about 16lbs? Maybe I need to sell the Toyo and look into getting a wooden field camera.

On the plus side, carrying and setting up the 4x5 seems so easy now, though the ground glass has become increasingly cramped!

Thanks

[Walter Calahan]

Get yourself a 3-wheeled jogging baby stroller big enough to carry all your gear. Then you push it to the shoot site.

I prefer a wood Ries tripod for my 8x10 gear.

See tripod and camera set up: http://www.walterpcalahan.com/Cheers/Info.html

[ic-racer]

16lb camera and 17lb tripod. That is a lot for a field setup. However, as you scale down the weight you compromise sharpness.

I'm using a 9 lb 8x10 camera and 14 lb Bogen, but with your setup, you will likely have more stability.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Having recently taken the plunge into 8x10 I feel a little overwhelmed with the weight and size of the gear. I have a Toyo 810M which is not the lightest of cameras to begin with and picked up an older Bogen 3058. Also a Gitzo 1570 head.

Can anyone reccommend a somewhat smaller/lighter tripod that would still be sufficient for the Toyo - which weighs about 16lbs? Maybe I need to sell the Toyo and look into getting a wooden field camera.

On the plus side, carrying and setting up the 4x5 seems so easy now, though the ground glass has become increasingly cramped!

Thanks

Wow, My 11x14 weights in at 16lbs. and my tripod at 17lbs. I still carry the camera, holders and lenses on my back and the tripod in my hands. Slow going but not impossible. So get an 11x14 and keep the tripod! Go to the gym more!!!

Jim

[cdholden]

or you could just hire Jim Fitzgerald to carry your gear for you!

[jp]

An aluminum $60 surveyor tripod will save a bunch of weight. Nobody will trip on the legs either if you set it up in a foot-traffic'd area since they are often bright colors or bright finish. Put any head you want on it.

No Pain No Gain; some practice and exercise builds strength and it will get easier to lug each time. Sorta like you don't realize a 1-2 yo child is heavy till you pick up a newborn; you've gotten used to dealing with the weight.

Lenses and film holders add quite a bit of weight too.

[RichardRitter]

Yes I remember the days of lugging around a 14 pound 8 x 10 camera and a 17 pound tripod. Did not go far with the camera and also notice that by the end of the day the images I would produce were not as good as the start of the day.

But that was all to the good now when I go out with the 13 pound 11 x 14 I know what I am getting into.

[Scott Davis]

Gitzo makes (or at least used to make) a nice all-aluminum legset that would go nicely with your 1570 head - I have a 1425 (I think that's the number) 3-section legset that handily holds anything I've got up to my 14x17. I've got the 1520 pan-tilt head (I think that's the number) mounted on it and the whole deal weighs in somewhere around 12 lbs. The 14x17 is a Canham wood field, which by itself comes in around 20-22 lbs. I've got a rolling luggage cart (which I'll soon have to replace - the bungees I use to hold the camera case on are starting to bend the tubes of the cart frame) that I use to haul the camera and three holders in a Tenba air transport case. I tuck the tripod legs under one of the bungees and have a (relatively) compact transport setup which keeps my hands free to carry the lens and light meter bag. I'd look into a lighter weight 8x10 though- I have a Zone VI ultralight 8x10 which weighs in at under 10 lbs, and a Canham woodfield will weigh about the same.

[tgtaylor]

My Gitzo G1348 easily handles my Toyo Robos which, at 12 lbs, is close to the 15 lb weight of the M and the G1348 weighs a tad under 5lbs without the head. As a bonus, you don't need a center column unless you want to use a ladder.

The G1348 was discontinued a few years back and it's replacement, weighing less but claiming to hold more weight, is not as sturdy IMO.

[chacabuco]

Thanks for all the input. Reading the responses and thinking about it, it not so much the weight that bothers me (despite the title of this thread), its just that the whole setup seems so cumbersome/awkward to me.

I think the 3058 is the main culprit as it is so unwieldy . I got used to the simplicity of the leg locks on my smaller 3221 and being able to carry the camera and tripod on my shoulder made the whole process more intuitive.

That said, I'm sure the main thing I need to do is get out and shoot more (thought the gym isn't a bad idea) and get used to the new setup.

Ill look into your specific tripod and transport suggestions too.

Thanks!

[dsphotog]

I shoot 810, 57, & 45, format is determined by distance from the car.
(and filmworthyness)

[Julian Hopf]

What do you use to carry the camera around? I have some nice hiking packs that make walking 10 miles a day with 60lbs feel doable.

[Mark Sawyer]

I'm sure the main thing I need to do is get out and shoot more...

Yep, I'm afraid the best piece of advice is still, "get used to it!"

A couple of helpful hints:

As Julian said, a good backpack is helpful for walking a ways before you set up. I have the big f/64 pack, and wouldn't part with it.

Find a tripod that you can leave the camera on and feel secure about carrying it over your shoulder. One 32-pound piece of equipoment is much easier to carry than two 16-pound pieces of equipment. Unless I'm traveling more than 50-100 yards, I put the camera on the tripod when I leave my truck. And the dark-cloth makes a nice shoulder pad!

[eddie]

wow! i will weigh my tripod when i get home but it has a 3047 head on it and aluminum legs. it si tall enough for me with out raising the center column.

my camera is 9 pounds. i use smaller lenses (i do not hike with my 165mm SA) and i only take 2-3 film holders. for me the extra hassle/weight is from teh filom holders. if i am going far i bring my changing bag. way lighter than the extra holders.

camera attached to tripod over my shoulder. holders in a small pack with my light meter. not too bad at all

[Michael Wynd]

Last year I went with some friends from the APUG forum to temperate rainforest near where I live in South East Australia. As I only have an 8x10 camera now, that's what I took. We were following an old logging road that was mud inches deep and then off into the bush following pink ribbons tied to the trees to the falls we wanted to photograph. You can see from the first photo that what I'm carrying is fairly heavy (somewhere between 30-35 kilos), but I wouldn't trade it for a smaller format. The results I got were well worth the effort of carrying the weight.

http://users.ncable.net.au/~higgins1/_APUG/Trans-Otway%20Waterfall%20Walk/album/index.html


cheers
Mike

[John Kasaian]

I have a "quick and dirty" mode when I have to go any great distance from the car w/o a pack animal or cart.
Folded camera in one hand with the lens on board(lensboard reversed if it won't close up the right way) tripod sans head in the other, a day pack with three film holders, notebook, filter kit and dark cloth(usually a black sweatshirt.)The loupe and light meter hang from my neck. I could also fit a rifle sling on the tripod and put the camera in a messenger bag if I need my hands free but if the light is changing fast I don't even bother with that.
It is still heavy and not for girlie-men, as our Governor would say lol!

[Vaughn]

My Zone VI 8x10 is no light weight. Add several pieces of glass, 5 to 7 holders, meter, darkcloth, the bits and pieces, the weight of the pack itself, a Reis A series and double tilt head, and I am carrying about 60 pounds, plus or minus a few -- more if I carry water and food. Smaller formats are fun, but I usually want the 8x10.

Fortunately I am still healthy enough to haul it around all day -- most places I go would be difficult if not impossible with a cart of some kind. Although those using a cart would find the relatively recent upgrading of some of the trails in the local redwood parks very nice.

I have found that my wood tripod has been able to take abuse that a metal and/or carbon fiber pod could not. In the 15 years I have used it, taking some pretty good falls, using it as a climbing aid (especially over boulder fields), and holding up the 8x10, it has continued to function well. Where the wood gives and springs back to its original shape, metal would have bent and carbon fiber shatter. Nicer to hold and use on very cold days, too.

But if one is not going cross-country and instead is staying on stable footing, then one's pod does not need some of the benefits of a wood pod.

Vaughn

[tgtaylor]

Interesting Vaughn, but I find traversing rough terrain with hiking poles (I now carry two) is far better and safer than using the tripod. A heavy tripod poses a weight distribution problem which a lighter tripod doesn't. If you're heavier on one side it's harder to maintain balance and a sudden slip will tend to pull you down on that side. The better you are able to distribute the weight evenly the safer it is. Using two hiking poles instead of one allows better for stability and also comes in extra handy for dicey stream crossings on a log.

[Vaughn]

I am talking about conditions too rough for hiking poles. For example, letting oneself down a 3+ foot vertical drops with a 45 pound pack on and that sort of thing. I carry the pod extended, so I can plant the pod at the bottom of the drop and put my weight on the head to help lower myself.

Also by not having a pod attached to my pack, I can set all its weight on the ground as I climb up or down a vertical bit of ground -- taking strain off my knees/legs.

I do tend to get an 8x10 where most people don't even go. But I also do long stretches of trails and carrying the pod gets tiring -- I tend to have it over my shoulder, with most of its weight on the top of the pack -- more centered that way. On long hikes that I know I will not be taking photos (hiking back to the car after the light leaves, for example) I will take the head off the pod and put it in the pack.

I did the Half Dome hike (w/o 8x10!) and used a single hiking stick -- what a knee-saver that was on the way back down to the Valley! I want to take my boys down into the Grand Canyon for several days next Spring -- one or two hiking sticks will be used going down. I will probably only have the Rolleiflex -- unless I can talk the boys into carrying some LF stuff for me!

[boris]

i love tripods, so i have a few :)
your bogen is a grat tripod but only if you need the tallness!
if you can live with eye level, i can recomend the gitzo 4330. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=gitzo+4330&N=0&InitialSearch=yesof course the carbon fibre 5541 will be lighter, but also almost double the price. my tripod with a gitzo head weights less than 4 kg, and is stable enough for any 8x10 camera. if you want to reduce weight look for the chamonix 5x7. http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/57.html
boris

[Rick Moore]

I did the Half Dome hike (w/o 8x10!) and used a single hiking stick -- what a knee-saver that was on the way back down to the Valley! I want to take my boys down into the Grand Canyon for several days next Spring -- one or two hiking sticks will be used going down. I will probably only have the Rolleiflex -- unless I can talk the boys into carrying some LF stuff for me!

I did Half Dome from Camp Currie and back when I was eighteen, with a Leica and a couple of lenses, and it damn near killed me. If you ever do it with an 8x10 and a Ries A, please let us know and we'll treat you with a lot more respect.

You could probably rent a mule to carry your 8x10 down to Phantom Ranch.



--
Rick

[Vaughn]

Hey Rick, I did Half Dome when I was 40 years old and had a bum knee. Sixteen years later I say that there is no way I'd get an 8x10 up there by myself. I might consider a 5x7, but the 4x5 would be more realistic and the Rolleiflex more probable!


You could probably rent a mule to carry your 8x10 down to Phantom Ranch.

And they could charge me double to get it back to the top and I would pay it! If I can get the boys to help carry camera equipment, I might take the 4x5 down. I could keep that systems down to around 15-20 pounds, depending on the pod I took. Five pounds per boy should do it! I could still take the Rolleiflex as a second camera! Or I could just take the 5x7 -- it is not all that much heavier..maybe 7 or 8 pounds per boy instead of five! LOL!

I once had my 8x10 packed into the high country by horses. That was sweet.

[Diane Maher]

My Gitzo G1348 easily handles my Toyo Robos which, at 12 lbs, is close to the 15 lb weight of the M and the G1348 weighs a tad under 5lbs without the head. As a bonus, you don't need a center column unless you want to use a ladder.

The G1348 was discontinued a few years back and it's replacement, weighing less but claiming to hold more weight, is not as sturdy IMO.

I have a Gitzo G1348 and at the moment I am waiting for a replacement center column. Mine cracked. I do not care for putting a big camera on top of the tripod without a center column.

[tgtaylor]

I have a Gitzo G1348 and at the moment I am waiting for a replacement center column. Mine cracked. I do not care for putting a big camera on top of the tripod without a center column.

Diane,

Check your pod. It's probably not the G1348 as is doesn't come with a center column. You can, of course, purchase either the quick or a geared center column (the latter is the best) but you will have little use for it as the base plate of the G1348 when fully extended is above the average persons head. However the center plate is quickly removed and a center column is quickly installed with the supplied wrench which makes the tripod a viable and cost effective alternative than a separate 10' tall tripod for those shots where great height would be beneficial.

If the tripod is level, then the more weight would only be beneficial but not needed as the shutter on a LF camera transfers zero vibration in my experience. I have used this tripod with an Arca Swiss Ball Head and P67II camera with an 8lb 400mm lens attached with no problem.

If you do have the G1348 and cracked the center column, then you had an extreme amount of weight off-axis which should have toppled the set-up before cracking the center column. Again, as long as a tripod is level, the more weight on it would only serve to steady it which is the reason some of the center columns have hooks so you can place your backpack on.

Thomas

PS. The Giants are ahead by one!

[tgtaylor]

I am talking about conditions too rough for hiking poles. For example, letting oneself down a 3+ foot vertical drops with a 45 pound pack on and that sort of thing. I carry the pod extended, so I can plant the pod at the bottom of the drop and put my weight on the head to help lower myself.

Also by not having a pod attached to my pack, I can set all its weight on the ground as I climb up or down a vertical bit of ground -- taking strain off my knees/legs.

I do tend to get an 8x10 where most people don't even go. But I also do long stretches of trails and carrying the pod gets tiring -- I tend to have it over my shoulder, with most of its weight on the top of the pack -- more centered that way. On long hikes that I know I will not be taking photos (hiking back to the car after the light leaves, for example) I will take the head off the pod and put it in the pack.

I did the Half Dome hike (w/o 8x10!) and used a single hiking stick -- what a knee-saver that was on the way back down to the Valley! I want to take my boys down into the Grand Canyon for several days next Spring -- one or two hiking sticks will be used going down. I will probably only have the Rolleiflex -- unless I can talk the boys into carrying some LF stuff for me!

Personally, I am of the pre skate board generation so my knees are still OK. For me 3foot drops with full gear is still doable - if unavoidable - although it might be preferable, depending on the situation, to take the pack off and gently drop it down. You can, of course, unpack the tripod from the pack and use it while either putting the poles on the pack or gently dropping them to the ground - whichever is more convenient. I usually do the latter.

I have carried the tripod with the camera attached over my shoulder and the tripod solo in my hand alternating with my shoulder and in both cases quickly becomes uncomfortable. For me its far more comfortable to have it attached to the pack unless the distance is short.

With two boys (read mules) you shouldn't have a care in the world as long as you pay the bills!

Thomas

[Jim Graves]

Well ... for those of you who don't know Vaughn ... he was a wilderness Ranger for many years and goes places most of the rest of us wouldn't even consider hiking ... and he does it with an 8x10 on his back!

[Vaughn]

Thomas, my knees have been badly mistreated, but not from skateboards (though I remember riding one in the days of metal wheels). I played fairly serious basketball for over 25 years. In the summers I built trails, fought fires and all that good type of stuff. After a summer of using pick-axes, cross-cut saws, shovels, and all those kinds of toys, no one could take a rebound away from me. :D I also planted trees in the winters. But those wilderness ranger and tree planting days were twenty years ago!

I have been kicked in the knee by a mule and have had my legs taken out from underneath me on a drive to the basket and fell 4 feet straight down on a knee. I snapped my right ACL in a basketball game and have had a couple other surgeries on my knees. I got out of the woods because it is tough to even think about starting a family being gone for ten days at a time all summer. Then I stopped playing basketball so that my knees could hold up and I could go backpacking with my three boys (we took a two night hike up along Redwood Creek last weekend). Bicycling really helps my knees -- I try to commute to work most days.

So, I respect my knees now -- though my knees may disagree. No jumping with 45 to 60 pounds on my back! And most of the time there is no place to jump to anyway -- just more 3 to 4 foot drops. Hopefully my three boys will step up and be the burros they were meant to be!

Vaughn

PS look what you did, Jim -- got me thinking about the good old days:D !

[John Jarosz]

My 8x10 2D converted to 8x20 weighs 17#, the Gitzo/Majestic head tripod weighs 15#. The 3 lenses weigh 10#. Yes, they're heavy. I work from a pick-up truck.

I believe one has to change his thinking when trying to photograph with all that stuff. It's not like 4x5. You simply can't go where you could with 4x5 and you have to accept that just like you have to accept the fact that you can't photograph action sequences with the ULF stuff. So don't try to do the same things you did with 4x5, even if it works you probably won't enjoy it.
John

[Pete Roody]

Having recently taken the plunge into 8x10 I feel a little overwhelmed with the weight and size of the gear. I have a Toyo 810M which is not the lightest of cameras to begin with and picked up an older Bogen 3058. Also a Gitzo 1570 head.

Can anyone reccommend a somewhat smaller/lighter tripod that would still be sufficient for the Toyo - which weighs about 16lbs? Maybe I need to sell the Toyo and look into getting a wooden field camera.

On the plus side, carrying and setting up the 4x5 seems so easy now, though the ground glass has become increasingly cramped!

Thanks

it looks like you are at the heavy side of the scale for 8x10. you could shave off 4-7 lbs on the camera alone. even a deardorff will save 4 lbs. i guess it depends on your budget. a cf tripod that holds a deardorff will weigh in at 4 lbs. keep your gitzo head. if i have a long hike i usually take less lenses to save weight.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I think if you are shooting LF/ULF you need to find your system whatever the weight and then deal with it. My 8x10 system with all of the goodies is about 35-40lbs. When I go up to the 11x14 and 8x20 the tripods get bigger and heavier ( My hand built Walnut cameras and tripods are as light as I could get them) you just have to deal with it. You have to be in shape and willing to put equipment on your back if you can. My style of shooting requires me to get off of the beaten path for the images I seek. If I have the 8x20 and the image is close to my truck I'm not going to complain at all. Then again, if i have to hike then off I go. It is always the hike back that is a bitch. You know, out of film for the day and you are just hiking back and not stopping to much.

Jim

[John Bowen]

you must remember.....there is NOTHING worth photographing that's located more than 50 feet from the car :-)

I personally shaved a LOT of weight from my 8x10 kit when I went from a Zone VI to a Ritter camera and from a Zone VI standard tripod to a Ries J100-8 with the J double tilt head. Suddenly 8x10 became much more manageable and thus much more fun!

[RichardRitter]

you must remember.....there is NOTHING worth photographing that's located more than 50 feet from the car :-)



That's what everyone wants to believe. The better photos are just out of that range and the best are ever farther away.

The stream I do a lot of my snow and ice work runs along a road so in some places it is easy to get into and others are hard. One winter day I was photographing there and had snowshoes on and went a bit to far. The return trip I took over land going the short route to the car was hard, the extra weight put the load on the snowshoe over there limit and it was fairly fresh snow, it was almost like having no snowshoes on.

When I got back I weighted everything. Things that I could not change the weight on went on one pile while the things I could change the weight on went on a second pile. Tripod, pan head and camera weighted 35 pounds. The size of the tripod and head are based on camera weight. So if the camera became lighter so does the tripod and head. Destroyed one Zone VI cameras in the process of finding a lighter camera. The 8 x 10 camera, tripod and lens if I want to go on the risky side weights 12 pounds now. Yes you will cringe when you read the tripod model I some times use with the 8 x 10 is a Bogen 3001.

Working with the lighter 8 x 10 is a whole lot more fun now and I find I an able to get the camera into areas that I would only take the 4 x 5 into because of the weight problem. Plus 8 x 10 negative are so must easier to print.

[Bill_1856]

Gawd, how Macho you all are! I think that I'm gonna throw up.

[John Bowen]

Bill,

What no snow or mountains in Sarasota??? :-)

Hope you are well,

[Kirk Keyes]

The lightest 8x10 kit I have is my 4x5.

[Daniel_Buck]

here's my solution to help out with the weight of heavy gear :D

http://www.buckshotsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/jeep_05.jpg



you must remember.....there is NOTHING worth photographing that's located more than 50 feet from the car :-)
Idonno, I find there's plenty of nice things to shoot, particularly around back-roads, and especially along 4x4 trails.

[chacabuco]

Thanks for all the input on this thread. After getting a new tripod (Induro AT413), things have gotten alot more manageable. I think the Bogen was just too cumbersome to carry over the shoulder with the camera attached, and switching to a smaller/lighter tripod has made a big difference.

Thanks again

[neil poulsen]

Go for the lighter camera.

As one example, Shen Hao is reasonably priced and only weighs about 10 lbs. You could sell the Toyo and have money left over after purchasing the Shen Hao. With a 10 lbs camera, you don't need the weight in a tripod. With the extra money, you could get a CF tripod (www.reallybidcameras.com) that could easily handle the Shen Hao.

[John Bowen]

Neil,

That's www.reallybigcameras.com