printing bigger than usual

[jp]

My almost 6' long stainless sink is usually a spacious place to process film and paper - as long as I don't do more than 11x14 size.

I just got the stuff to do 16x20 and it didn't fit. I got new Paterson trays that size from Freestyle, along with Foma 311 paper in that size. I had to get creative to make the trays all fit! I ended up having to stagger/overlap the trays to make it fit. It worked just fine. I don't expect to do 16x20 on a regular basis, so now as soon as the clean trays are dry, I can have elbow room again.

http://www.f64.nu/analog/DSC_0076.JPG

It was lots of fun to print stuff that big. I printed 2 4x5's and 1 6x6cm. Both enlargers could go quite a bit higher (beseler cb7 with 135 el nikkor, omega chromega-b with componon-s 80) to allow cropping or even bigger prints. Grain is not noticeable with 4x5 TMY2 at this size, nor on TMX 6x6. Tripod use is noticeable as 16x20 really shows the benefit of a stable camera.

[nolindan]

Sometimes I print 20x24: I put down sheets of plastic on the floor to catch drips and spills and put the trays down on the floor.

Leedal makes 'tray ladders' in 16x20 that try to solve the problem, but I don't know how well they would work for anything larger. Picking a 20x24 print up without tearing or creasing is a bit of a challenge.

[chuck461]

Another way is to use just one tray and pour the chemistry in and out. Here is a link where I got the idea.

http://www.heylloyd.com/technicl/single.htm

Hope this is useful.

Chuck

[rdenney]

I still have an old Cibachrome 16x20 print tube that I used for making black-and-white prints that size when I had my darkroom. That was easy and it used less chemistry by far. I didn't own a roller, but just rolled the tube back and forth in my darkroom sink. But my big issue was washing the print, and for that I bought one 16x20 tray.

My Epson 3800 takes less space, heh.

Rick "allowing for future insanity and therefore not offering the darkroom stuff for sale" Denney

[ic-racer]

One reason I did not install a traditional darkroom sink. This 27x30 tray just hangs over the edge.

[Heroique]

...I had to get creative to make the trays all fit! I ended up having to stagger/overlap the trays to make it fit. It worked just fine.

Say, your large-print strategy looks much like mine! However, my work space is even smaller, so I can stagger only three trays – the developer & fix trays are on the bottom, supporting the stop tray above. (Just like your three trays on the right.) I’ve tried the developer on top, and the fixer on top, but it’s difficult to get used to either – even though it’s nice to see the full print “appear.” And sometimes, this is quite important depending on the type of development I’m doing. When fixing is done, I place the prints in a fourth (empty) tray sitting nearby, and carry it to my kitchen for clearing/washing. The kitchen is around a corner & down the hall. It’s a “two-station” print process that took a little while to get used to. I should say “three-station” because my enlarger is in yet another room!

[Doremus Scudder]

I've had good luck with the tray ladders. However, I don't use the middle step. Developer on top, stop on the bottom with the tray sticking out a bit to catch developer drips, then fix one to the side and a holding tray with running water to the side of that.

After that, I wash and dry. Keepers get toned at a later time (soak, fix 2, toner, hca, wash), so I don't have to keep more than the four trays in the sink at any one time (unless, of course, I have to split-develop, at which time I stick a tray of soft-working developer somewhere). One of the reasons I have this work flow is so that I can get enough larger trays into the sink. I don't need a fix2 and a toner tray for the initial round; 4-5 trays does the job.

I did some large printing without making smaller prints first, but now I almost always have an 11x14 size of everything I think is worth making larger prints, which means I have paper grade, print manipulations, developing schemes, etc. worked out to some extent. Sure, there is some tweaking for the larger size, but generally it follows the smaller print routine.

Hope this helps,

Doremus Scudder

[dsphotog]

The biggest I've printed is 32"x 48".... For proccessing, I used plastic wallpaper troughs from the home improvement store, washed the prints in the bathtub.

[IanMazursky]

I sort of have the same problem, im glad you brought up the topic.
Im planning on contacting my 12x20's on Lodima but i can barely fit 3 11x14 trays on the table with my enlarger.
My darkroom doesn't have a big sink, its just a wash basin for the washing machine.
The stacking idea is appealing, i have some floppy 16x20 trays a friend gave me.
Im wondering how hard is it to move wet prints between the trays on the ladder?

[PViapiano]

One reason I did not install a traditional darkroom sink. This 27x30 tray just hangs over the edge.

Nice tray...where did you get it? Is it flexy or sturdy?

Thx...

[rdenney]

I sort of have the same problem, im glad you brought up the topic.
Im planning on contacting my 12x20's on Lodima but i can barely fit 3 11x14 trays on the table with my enlarger.
My darkroom doesn't have a big sink, its just a wash basin for the washing machine.
The stacking idea is appealing, i have some floppy 16x20 trays a friend gave me.
Im wondering how hard is it to move wet prints between the trays on the ladder?

"Floppy"? That makes no sense.

If you pull images out of the accessible end of stacked trays, turn them so a corner is low and let them drain into the tray. Then slip it in the tray below it. The key to using stacked trays is to put the developer on top, the stop bath below it, and the fixer below that. You don't want even a drop of stop bath or fixer getting into your developer.

Rick "who would be looking for a print developing tube" Denney

[jeroldharter]

I am surprised that more people don't use the single tray method, especially those with limited space. When making prints 16x20 and larger, I suspect that almost all of us have limited sink space. For the larger prints it also minimizes print handling because the print stays put in the single tray. For 16x20 size, all you need are 3000ml beakers like these which cost $10 each:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23702&catid=460

If you need more than 3000 ml of solution then those beakers are pricey and some cheap buckets might be the alternative.

[Brian Ellis]

For 16x20 in a darkroom I used to put two trays horizontally in the sink along with the print washer. The fix tray went on the floor. My Zone VI Studios washer was for 11x14 maximum so I used to drape the 16x20 print over two dividers. Then I'd empty the developer tray in the sink, rinse it, and use it for the Heico bath. It was all a little messy and inconvenient but it worked.

[jeroldharter]

I should have added that single tray has some other advantages for large prints:

only need one tray, maybe two. I use a second tray for a water holding area for test prints. Large trays are expensive and take up a lot of storage space.

you can have as many steps as you like in the processing sequence. All you need is extra beakers.

you can experiment easily with different developers and toners in the same session without needing acres of sink space.

odors are reduced because you don't have so much surface area of solution exposed.

batch processing is a bit easier. I do mostly 11x14's and with some practice I can process a batch of 12 prints simultaneously in the same tray.

[rdenney]

batch processing is a bit easier. I do mostly 11x14's and with some practice I can process a batch of 12 prints simultaneously in the same tray.

But sequential prints and test prints are more difficult. The tray will have to be washed thoroughly before making the next print, because any residue of fixer in the tray will ruin the developer for the next print. I was often already exposing the next test strip while the previous one is still sitting in the fixer.

Of course, the same is true using my old Cibachrome developing tube. But it's easier to wash that out thoroughly than to wash a 16x20 or larger tray, especially if sink space is limited.

Rick "all options are a compromise" Denney

[jeroldharter]

But sequential prints and test prints are more difficult. The tray will have to be washed thoroughly before making the next print, because any residue of fixer in the tray will ruin the developer for the next print. I was often already exposing the next test strip while the previous one is still sitting in the fixer....

Rick "all options are a compromise" Denney

I suppose but it depends on your water source to a degree. I have 3/8 ID vinyl tubing attached to my water supply. Test prints and test strips are fixed briefly and then moved to the adjacent water bath. I dump the tray of fixer back into the beaker, make 2-3 passes around the perimeter of the tray with my water hose (dumping each time), and it's ready to go. In practice this takes very little time. I have never had a problem with residual fixer affecting development. Plus, you are able to rinse the prints briefly before fixer and before HypoClear to minimize the forward transfer of solutions also. I have never had a problem with residual fixer affecting development.

If I had a regular faucet that was in fixed position then it would be awkward.

[rdenney]

If I had a regular faucet that was in fixed position then it would be awkward.

Or if you were doing it on a counter top instead of in a sink.

Everyone has to navigate their own limitations. My own present limitations are part of the reason I scan and print digitally--I just can't make a place in my house for a darkroom and maintain peace in the family. And I never liked darkroom work enough to be willing to be single over it, heh.

Rick "able to spray water across the length of the kitchen while rinsing a teaspoon" Denney

[ic-racer]

Nice tray...where did you get it? Is it flexy or sturdy?

Thx...
Home Depot. If fits under a washing machine. I'm going to put a spigot on it to drain it as it is a little flimsy when lifting when it is filled. Cost a little over $20

[John Powers]

Sometimes I print 20x24: I put down sheets of plastic on the floor to catch drips and spills and put the trays down on the floor.

Leedal makes 'tray ladders' in 16x20 that try to solve the problem, but I don't know how well they would work for anything larger. Picking a 20x24 print up without tearing or creasing is a bit of a challenge.

Taking the OP’s problem with trays for 16x20 prints in a 6’ sink and scaling it up to 20x24 prints in an 8’ sink, I add some imaginary or virtual sink space. I have an 11x13’ foot darkroom with an 8’ stainless sink. When not using the Jobo CPP-2 in the sink I keep it on a RubberMaid cart wheeled out into the rest of the basement. When printing 20x24 I need more space for trays than the sink has. I put the Jobo on the floor and a 20x24 print tray on the cart. The cart is very close to sink height. The sink becomes the top of a T shape. The cart becomes the vertical stem of the T. I process from right to left only because my print washer is on a table to the left of the sink. Paper goes into the developer at far right, then stop, then Fix#1 in the sink, then Fix #2 on the cart, then passing over Fix#1 for the drips and into water wash at the left of the sink, then into the print washer on a stand to the left of the sink. When done printing I bail the Fix#2 tray into a dark jug using the same pitcher I mix fresh fix in. When the tray is light enough (stainless tray) I can lift to pour the rest into the jug. If memory serves the Fix trays usually have close to a gallon of fixer working. After all trays and sink are clean I can go back to my normal size set up in the sink which is either 16x20 prints enlarged from 8x10 negatives or 7x17 contact prints. These trays all fit in the 8’ sink.

I find that using two hands and two wide stainless Kostiner print tongs per stage keep the 20x24 large wet print from twisting, folding, tearing or creasing. At age 70 holding a wet 20x24 print straight out over the trays to drain seems to take a very long time. Back to the gym.

John

[jp]

Many great ideas shared; thanks!