View Full Version : A sad, sad day for LFers in my country...
Lee Christopher
17-Apr-2010, 03:47
No, it's not that LF cameras will be made illegal or anything as bad as that, but very soon, we will have absolutely no E-6 processing services for LF materials here. It seems that the one and only lab in our country that does LF E-6 will stop offering that service by the middle of next month.
I know there's B&W, but by eliminating color materials (we don't even have C-41 LF services), that takes away so much we could do in LF. The only option seems to be to send LF trans overseas (including X-rays) and hope that things don't get screwed up, besides the greatly increased cost.
DIY E-6 also appears to be out of reach for most of us due to high start-up costs and for the most part, a simple lack of space.
No idea what's going to happen to my nearly 250 sheets of Velvia 100 in my freezer since I can't get them processed easily or affordably anymore.
Sigh.
Lee Christopher
17-Apr-2010, 04:37
Sorry ... Singapore.
What a lucky man you are!! Don't waste a minute, go and buy cheaply the developing machines from the last lab that went belly up and open your own lab for the E-6 processing. You'll be the only one in your country! What a lucky boy!
Paul Kierstead
17-Apr-2010, 07:11
I do 4x5 E-6 using a Jobo CPE-2 plus and a changing tent. I use the Kodak 5l E-6 kit. Very modest space requirements, and not bad start-up costs (used equipment of course); actually, considering the cost of 4x5 E-6 dev around here, it paid itself off quickly.
sanchi heuser
17-Apr-2010, 10:43
Hi Lee,
maybe this is an inspitation:
"Developing 4x5 Films in a Jobo CPE 2"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr3KFa0pLbl
This is part 1, continues with part 2-5.
Rory_5244
17-Apr-2010, 11:57
I develop 8x10 transparencies in my bathroom using a rubbermaid cooler for temperature control and a Jobo 2830 drum. I use Tetenal's 3 bath developer kit and I can develop 40 sheets per kit. Results surpass pro lab work IMO. Oh, and I live in a Third World country. Here's the last slide I developed:
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss20/Snoflo/tractor14.jpg
rguinter
17-Apr-2010, 13:32
I was going to suggest you sell off the E6 film and switch to Ektar 100. The results I've been getting with the Ektar are impressive. But with Rory's comments and beautiful photo above I won't suggest that.
Back in college I souped some 120 Velvia in a closet sized bathroom with no heat control at all, just a large water bath. A fish tank heater or similar would have helped. Everything you really need could fit into a large grocery bag. I don't know how Singapore is for allowing the import of the chemistry though, I used the Tetenal stuff which is simple and "good enough".
Lee Christopher
17-Apr-2010, 20:21
That's some great suggestions guys! THANKS!
Not many folks DIY their own E6 here, so it's sort of a new(ish) area to many of us. Commercial lab work has always been fairly affordable (USD2.50/ EURO1.88 per sheet of 4x5) so there was hardly a need. Now that I look at my first post, I guess it may seem like a whine to many others who may not have faced this before (and in countries where DIY E6 was common). I'm sorry if it sounded that way.
I'll have to find out about restrictions bringing in chemicals though.
Rory, that's some wicked saturation going on there. It looks surreal! If I could ask, how did you get that?
And thanks Sanchi for the link.
Blueberrydesk
17-Apr-2010, 20:28
What a lucky man you are!! Don't waste a minute, go and buy cheaply the developing machines from the last lab that went belly up and open your own lab for the E-6 processing. You'll be the only one in your country! What a lucky boy!
Now that's a good, capitalist idea! :D
That idea is actually based on reality. I know 3 young enthusiasts who did this, even if the lab was not yet the last one. They are still going strong, local newspaper wrote about them several times and they even expanded their service into scanning, digital printing from scans etc.
Rory_5244
18-Apr-2010, 12:26
Haha, that's Kodak E100VS for ya, Lee! :)
Lee Christopher
19-Apr-2010, 13:45
Well, one of us spoke to the lab, and they told us the machine is built into the building (whatever that means). Also, it's supposed to be a dinosaur with no parts and service, which is why, I assume, they're abandoning it considering the very low volume of LF E6 done here. Friend says it's the size of a generator like the huge ones you see at fairs and such, which is probably as big as or larger than some of our bedrooms! :eek:
Anyone wants to come on over to my country and extricate a 4x5 development machine! LOL!
The hardest part about E-6 or any color process is sourcing the chemicals in small quantities. The E-6 5L is fairly easy to get in the States- but I don't know about Singapore. You might have to get the chemicals in huge sizes that only make sense if you run a lab.
Brian Stein
20-Apr-2010, 16:44
The hardest part about E-6 or any color process is sourcing the chemicals in small quantities. The E-6 5L is fairly easy to get in the States- but I don't know about Singapore. You might have to get the chemicals in huge sizes that only make sense if you run a lab.
As mentioned above the tetenal kit is quite inexpensive, will do E6, and not too hard to find. Eg in australia http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=31573 has it for about US$70 per litre (no affiliation). I also see it on ebay........
I do my own E6, 35mm, 120, and 4x5. It's not terribly difficult, and the process is more tolerant than some would have you believe.
CantikFotos
26-Apr-2010, 10:36
Christopher.......have you contacted Kodak's office in Singapore? They have always been the distribution center for SE Asia and you should be able to get chemicals directly from them. Years ago I when I lived in Taiwan, any special orders I made for chemicals paper, film, etc were shipped from SG to TW instead of from the US.
I aim in singapore too. I did my own processing 4 x 5 and 120/135 rolls E3/E4/E6/C41 many years ago, I use tray (own build) 5x7 inch in size and Paterson tank for rolls. Those days we easily can buy 2 litres kit set of chemical from kodak. Now is 5 litre size.
Must diq out my old tray again. haha.
ethics_gradient
27-Apr-2010, 06:18
That's really surprising to me; I know Singapore is a small country, but it seems to have a larger per capita of photography enthusiasts than most.
If you wind up sending film abroad, I can recommend IQ Lab (http://www.iqlab.co.th/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=558837&Ntype=8) in Bangkok. Looking at their price list, it's only SGD$3 a sheet for 4x5 E-6. As it is, here in the States I send my large format color stuff across the country (from Florida to California), which is about twice as far :p
Lee Christopher
9-May-2010, 08:04
Thanks for the heads-up guys!
Right now we're checking all our options.
A fellow LFer has an old JOBO kit, but according to him, it may ned replav\cement parts or repair. Jere's what he said verbatim:
You can take a look. It is old and things are falling apart. You see that there is a big magnet on the top of the control knobs that was detached from a paper drum. I managed to stick the other part next to the motor. The heating element looks slightly misaligned. The motor still works.
Apparently, the heating element works fine upon further checks.
Do we need to buy replacement parts, going by these photos?
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/861326475_7C8Bg-M.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/861387903_grhah-M.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/861387575_uoakL-M.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/861388804_6947W-M.jpg
Thanks once again for all your kind assistance or opinions.
There seems to be nothing wrong with it, other than that you may want to glue that magnet to the drum it dropped from...
Adding a lift would make it more comfortable, but I used them without for many years, and the development was consistent nonetheless.
Sevo
can have a look and do a test check.
Lee Christopher
9-May-2010, 23:24
Thanks Sevo. So you reckon other than gluing the magnet, there's nothing else that needs replacing?
Thanks KK. I'm not sure what you mean. Were you asking me to have a look and check, or were you offering to have a look and check?
CHEERS!
Thanks Sevo. So you reckon other than gluing the magnet, there's nothing else that needs replacing?
It does not look worse than any of mine. In general, they are quite surprisingly tough, given that they feel like flimsy plastics. This one is a "+" model, so there is no risk that you have run into a early series CPE2's with weak motor drivers (but by now most of these will either have been fixed or ended in a landfill). The only other significant flaw mine have developed were worn and leaking lifts - which you won't have, not owning a lift...
Oh, and you should re-glue the two loose ceramic distance pieces with some epoxy - the original glue does not seem to bond to ceramics. At proper distance, you will get better heat distribution and less hysteresis.
Sevo
I got all my E6 chemical from Singapore and the last shipment is just 1 month ago. In fact, my Jobo ATL1500 also got it from there last summer. Hence, I suggest to ask for Kodak about it. (They are not very keen in Hong Kong either as it takes presistent method, ask the right question and ... for 9 months before I got an account from their whole sale dealer; they have no interest in hobbist).
Jobo is around and one of my friend just use a bath of water plus Jobo hand development tank (smaller even than the Paterson). Seem work for her.
shibby4x5
20-May-2010, 19:50
I develop 8x10 transparencies in my bathroom using a rubbermaid cooler for temperature control and a Jobo 2830 drum. I use Tetenal's 3 bath developer kit and I can develop 40 sheets per kit. Results surpass pro lab work IMO. Oh, and I live in a Third World country. Here's the last slide I developed:
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss20/Snoflo/tractor14.jpg
This is a BEAUTIFUL photograph!!
I just started shooting LF color and I just cant get the hang of it. I;ve devoted so much time to BW that color just wont come easy to me. but great job!
losheng
25-Dec-2011, 08:15
Hey, Christopher and the fellow guys from Singapore - I've just found this thread. I thought you might want to know that a couple of us were just too stubborn to give large format E6 up, so we got together to share a set of E6 chemicals from the local Fujihunt guys. Just to put things in perspective, a whole set means:
1. 4x5 litres of concentrated First Developer
2. 6x1 litres of concentrated Reversal Bath
3. 2x5 litres of concentrated Color Developer Part A
4. 2x5 litres of concentrated Color Developer Part B
5. 4x5 litres of concentrated Conditioner
6. 4x5 litres of concentrated Bleach
7. 4x5 litres of concentrated Fixer
8. 12 x 250ml of concentrated Stablizer.
That's a total of more than 100 litres of concentrates. Fully diluted, each set makes up more than half a ton of working solutions! So all you guys that are talking about 1L and 5L kits - you guys are sissies. You should see how we have to deal with our wives' grave faces when these chemicals were brought home!
In fact, the demand was so high that I ended up ordering 2 batches of these. You may want to see the thread on the local Clubsnap forum here (http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/traditional-darkroom/961511-anyone-wants-share-some-e6-chemicals.html).
And guess what? These chemicals are freshly made in Singapore!!
So how do we process our 4x5 slides? Some bought the Jobo set, one has the Paterson Orbital processor, one hand roll the drum on the table, and I bought a Phototherm. I still have some balance chemicals with me, so drop me a note if you want some to get your hands dirty (and itchy - oh boy, the color developer part B stinks and stings - someone should have told us to wear gloves!)
Just so that the regional large format community doesn't have to give up shooting slides, I'm planning to setup a small mail order processing service in due course to serve those who refuse to move on with the times. Or at least rebottle the chemicals into 1 and 5 litre kits to make it easy for people to try E6 at home. It's isn't all that hard - from the data sheet of the C6R chemicals (Fujihunt's equivalent of the E6), most of the steps have a tolerance of a few degree Celsius. So, despair not! In the mean time, if you just have a couple of sheets, I can help you to do the processing.
However, the cost of processing will no longer be as cheap as before. Only the dip-n-dunk industrial grade processors are able to bring the cost of processing down to what it was before. But without the professionals fueling the demand, it's no longer economical running these processors. For most of us that have such low volume, it means using the chemicals one-shot. Chemical cost per run is now therefore a few bucks each time - the most expensive being the bleach. Not to mention that it's pretty labour intensive to do these small batch processing. The most laborious part is preparing all the solutions for the processing - something that takes me 35 minutes!
When I picked up the chemicals from the local distributor, he was so shocked that anyone in Singapore still wants it. He merely exports these chemicals to the neighboring 'developing countries' (his words - really!). He reckons that the whole chrome/E6 will soon go away, a sentiment that was echoed by a distributor I met on the other side of the world in Europe.
So, enjoy this while you can! And who knows? The world may rediscover the joy of 4x5 chromes in due course!
ls
Brian C. Miller
25-Dec-2011, 15:18
Eddie, the update is from today! :) They are still going at it! :D
Losheng, are you going to be scanning in the E6 for printing, or are you going to try the dye transfer or carbon printing?
losheng
26-Dec-2011, 08:02
Losheng, are you going to be scanning in the E6 for printing, or are you going to try the dye transfer or carbon printing?
Actually right now we are just drooling over and reminisicing the good old days of the 4x5 chromes. And congratulating ourselves for the good job at developing the films, and kidding ourselves that chromes will just be the next vinyl.
Next step? Having tried my hands on scanning, I realized that it's a difficult, time consuming job, and totally NOT FUN (I'm sure the same can be said about wet darkrooms by others!)! Personally, I'm hoping to get these chromes printed on Ifochrome. There used to be one or two labs in Singapore that did that. Now? AFAIK, they have all vanished. The whole game of sourcing for chemicals and paper starts all over again! Even if I can find a supplier, I'm not too sure if there are going to be enough people who will be willing to share a shipment with me. But then again, I held the same pessimism when I first posted in the local forum asking if people were willing to share the set of E6 chemicals - so, who knows? :-)
Brian C. Miller
26-Dec-2011, 15:50
Well, Ilfochrome has been discontinued, so you'd better get the slides off to a lab while the material is still available, or else purchase paper and chemicals. I don't know how long they will be available.
losheng
26-Dec-2011, 18:52
Well, Brian, that's sad. Ilfochrome classic is still listed on the website (http://www.ilford.com/en/products/ilfochrome/index.asp) as we speak. It looks like I might never have the chance to do Ifochrome personally. What's the option for high quality chrome output then? I have looked at some discussion threads on the reverse RA-4 process, but the results seem sub-optimal.
Brian C. Miller
26-Dec-2011, 19:28
We just happen to have a thread about that: Ilfochrome discontinued, what do I do now? (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=84701) in the Darkroom section... (I'd put a smiley, but it isn't exactly something to smile about, is it?)
I have been looking at the dye transfer stuff. It's complex and involved, but possible. I haven't done a detailed analysis of what it would take to make it in my bathroom, where I develop and print.
losheng
30-Dec-2011, 07:27
Hey, that's a good info to keep in mind in the mean time.
At this time, I am still trying to fine tune the quality of the E6 processing. Some of the chromes get a bluish tint in the dense areas. It's passable for most cases, but the tell tale sign is there when control strips are used.
I can think of three possible causes:
1. Overactive first developer due to the lack of starter solutions;
2. Overactive reversal; and
3. Unbalanced ph of the color developer.
Any suggestion what could be wrong? Let me first get the processing nailed down, and then I will come back to explore the printing option. :-) And in the mean time, I'll go exploit my friends living overseas to see how we can hog up some Ifochrome stuffs! :-)
Having lived not far from you in Melaka I know people in Singapore tend not to look to the North, but I feel sure there will be labs in KL that will continue. Found this on google : The place in Kuala Lumpur, called "E6 labs" had everything you could want...
Russ
losheng
31-Dec-2011, 09:03
Hey, Russ - on the contrary, my family visits M'sia very often, and in fact, we are making a trip up on the first weekend of 2012! So we think about Malaysia all the time! :-) Until recently, I've heard the local 4x5 chrome shooters sent the films to KL for processing, but I understand that E6 processing for 4x5 is no longer offered. The nearest lab for us right now is in Thailand and Hong Kong.
BTW - after several rounds of experiments, tweaking, and asking question, I think I might have finally got the Fujihunt's C6R chemicals to develop a control strip that closely matches the reference strip - the answer came from Phototherm's support actually - and that's to dilute the reversal bath by an additional 30%.. That totally lifted the blue shadows on some of the Velvia 50 chromes. Just putting a note here hoping that this might be a handy tip for anyone else doing their own E6 processing. :)
Just made a check on B&H - seems that they still have left over P-30 kits and paper. Better grab them before they are all gone!
Drew Bedo
2-Jan-2012, 11:06
While the situation in the USA is not nearly so dire as in Singapore, here in Houston Texas I feel as though I am looking up an a large boulder rolling down hill at me. This is the fourth or fifth largest market in the nation depending on who you ask . . .a citty of millions anyway . . .and we have lost every LF processing lab except A-Z Photolab. They still process LF E-6 and B&W but . . They do no printing from an enlarger. All LF negs and trannies must be scanned before printing—and comes high.
Sounds like there is an open niche for a LF only lab in Singapore.
losheng
13-Jan-2012, 03:06
Sounds like there is an open niche for a LF only lab in Singapore.
It might be true!
I wrote to Ilford to enquire about getting Ilfochrome supplies, and surprise, surprise! I received a reply from their distributor for the region from Taiwan! Well, let's see if he is able to ship me a starter kit to get things rolling :-)
ls
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