Lodima contact printing

[Eamonn Doyle]

Hi..
I've just received a couple of boxes of Lodima paper.
How similar or different is it to my previous contact printing set up.. ?
Im using an enlarger for my lightsource.. and standard multi grade ilford paper and developer.

Will Lodima work with any standard developer ? I know Amidol is suggested. But will other standard devlopers like Ilford multigrade work ?

Should I expect my exposure and development times to change a lot ?

Sorry if this has already been asked before..
Thanks
Eamonn

[RPNugent]

http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/AzoForum/default.asp

Your best source for info on Lodima is Michel Smith's site. You will need a brighter bulb than an enlarger unless you want extremely long exposure times (multiple minutes at least if even possible under an enlarger). Read the AZO info pages on Michael's site for recommended bulbs etc.

[Eamonn Doyle]

Thanks for that Bob !!

[Doremus Scudder]

I also second going to Michael and Paula's site.

If you are contact printing, try using a light bulb suspended over your printing frame. I used 25 and 15w bulbs hooked to my regular timer/footswitch set up. You may need something stronger with Lodima if it's very slow. Getting used to printing with the room fully illuminated takes just a few times. Dodging and burning are a bit trickier, but work the same way as with a collimated source like an enlarger.

Best,

Doremus Scudder

[Michael Kadillak]

When you have a 300W R40 bulb blazing above your head a visor is a great suggestion as is an audible metronome.

[Jan Pedersen]

300W work well with Azo paper but my experience with the Lodima paper is that a 75W bulb will give you close to the same exposure time as a 300W bulb with Azo.

[Brian Ellis]

Assuming Lodima is basically Azo (I've used Azo extensively, never used Lodima) any developer will "work" but different developers will produce different tones. Amidol and Azo produced a warm toned print for me. The developer other than Amidol that I was using during the period when I was also using Azo (can't remember what it was but it wasn't Dektol) produced an obviously cooler tone. Just experiment a little, see what you like.

My enlarger's light source (Aristo 4500VCL) didn't produce a bright enough light to make contact printing feasible when the head was raised high enough to light the paper evenly. I did as Doremus suggested above and suspended a light bulb above the paper. Place the light high enough so that the paper is lit evenly from corner to corner, which you can check with a spot meter. The type of light doesn't matter to the print tone but graded papers in general respond more quickly to bluish light sources if you're looking for speed.

[Jim Noel]

I just remove the lens from the enlarger and turn the VC-CLS head to all blue.
Works great with reasonable printing times.

[Eamonn Doyle]

Thanks very much everyone... I have an office lamp with a 150w bulb so I'm going to try that !!
Eamonn

[Chauncey Walden]

I use a 40W bulb in a metal reflector at 3 feet distance.

[Jim Shanesy]

300W work well with Azo paper but my experience with the Lodima paper is that a 75W bulb will give you close to the same exposure time as a 300W bulb with Azo.

It's that much faster? Is your experience with the test run or the production run?

[Chauncey Walden]

I have Azo, proto Lodima and Lodima. I was using 60W with Azo and had to go to 40W with either Lodima, so, somewhat faster.

[chris_4622]

300W work well with Azo paper but my experience with the Lodima paper is that a 75W bulb will give you close to the same exposure time as a 300W bulb with Azo.

This has been my experience too.

[Jan Pedersen]

Jim, I don't see much difference if any between the test run and the latest production run. I used my last sheets from the test run together with the new paper and the speed was the same.
Lodima is faster than Azo and 75W at 2.5 feet works well for me.

[Robbie Shymanski]

I just started using a supply of Azo and it took me a bit to figure that my enlarger wasn't going to cut it. Exposures took forever. A 100w frosted bulb in a clip reflector connected to an old Time-O-Lite timer. The lamp is about 4 feet about my print frame. For a typical exposure, about 10 to 12 seconds. I think if it is good enough for Weston, it would work for me. 60 seconds in Dektol, per Kodak Dataguide info, and the rest is pure joy.

[Michael Kadillak]

I just started using a supply of Azo and it took me a bit to figure that my enlarger wasn't going to cut it. Exposures took forever. A 100w frosted bulb in a clip reflector connected to an old Time-O-Lite timer. The lamp is about 4 feet about my print frame. For a typical exposure, about 10 to 12 seconds. I think if it is good enough for Weston, it would work for me. 60 seconds in Dektol, per Kodak Dataguide info, and the rest is pure joy.

Dektol can turn Azo some wild colors - at least that is what it did for me. Neutol paper developer is a liquid concentrate that seems to proof correctly in a hurry but it is Amidol that is the key here. If you are going to use the Weston analogy then look at the pictures of him with the black fingernails as it was the Amidol that was responsible for this. In this day and age of understanding chemical risks one needs the safety of nitrile gloves to protect one from dermal absorption of Amidol but that is a small issue to deal with.

[Robbie Shymanski]

My experience using Azo and Dektol have yielded consistent tone results that lean towards a cool black. Everytime. Old paper. Fresh chemistry. 68 degrees. 60 seconds.

[Michael Kadillak]

My experience using Azo and Dektol have yielded consistent tone results that lean towards a cool black. Everytime. Old paper. Fresh chemistry. 68 degrees. 60 seconds.

Glad to hear that you are realizing great results. Must be the old paper.

[Ron McElroy]

I never liked what Dektol did to AZO. Ansco 130 worked better in color, but even still Amidol created a totally different image.

[IanMazursky]

I was wondering if anyone has tried to develop Lodima or Azo in a Jobo ATL using Amidol?
I don't have much room to setup 16x20 trays so i was thinking about trying it in my jobo.
Any thoughts or am i barking up the wrong tree.

[John Bowen]

Ian,

I don't know why a jobo wouldn't work, but we Azo/Amidol users utilize a waterbath to control contrast. I can't imagine how you'd pull a waterbath off using a jobo. Instead of SEEING when the blacks look right (very easy under a Thomas safe light), you'd have to make a guess and adjust from there. My understanding of the waterbath is that the print is kept VERY still in the water allowing the highlights to continue to develop while the developer in the shadows quickly exhausts itself, thus controlling the print's contrast. The Jobo, with it's constant motion would wash the developer off the highlights onto the shadows thus (at least theoretically) loosing the benefits of the waterbath.

Perhaps someone smarter than I has tackled this issue with acceptable results.

[Michael Graves]

Having just ordered my first Lodima paper, I was wondering if Ansco 130 or Zone VI developer work okay with it? Those have been my standards for years.

[chuck461]

Having just ordered my first Lodima paper, I was wondering if Ansco 130 or Zone VI developer work okay with it? Those have been my standards for years.

Hi Michael
Just last night I did some comparison between Ansco (1:2) and Amidol (Formulary Azo developer). To my eye the contrast looks very close. I did need to give the Ansco prints 50 percent more exposure than the Amidol. That could be because my developer is exhausting, though.

The big difference that I saw was in toning. The Ansco prints turned a warm brown while the Amidol prints were more neutral in KRST 1:20.

So, my opinion...Yes, I like the Lodima developed in Ansco 130. Keep a close eye on the toning if you want to keep your prints a neutral tone.

I hope this helps. I'd be curious to know your impressions.

Chuck

[Michael Kadillak]

I was wondering if anyone has tried to develop Lodima or Azo in a Jobo ATL using Amidol?
I don't have much room to setup 16x20 trays so i was thinking about trying it in my jobo.
Any thoughts or am i barking up the wrong tree.

You would give up the option of a water bath to alter your paper grade with Amidol but absent that it would work fine. I use thin "seed" trays for 8x20 that fit my darkroom sink much easier than the large trays. Not sure what format you are using.

[IanMazursky]

You would give up the option of a water bath to alter your paper grade with Amidol but absent that it would work fine. I use thin "seed" trays for 8x20 that fit my darkroom sink much easier than the large trays. Not sure what format you are using.
John and Michael, thanks for the help!

Michael, Im planning on cutting down 20x24 sheets of Lodima to 12x20.
My darkroom table is just big enough to hold an Omega D2 and 3 11x14 trays. My sink is tiny, its a laundry room sink.
Im thinking the jobo might not be the best way to go so ill have to turn my prep table into a processing line.
I recently blacked out the whole basement work area. Not ideal but it may work. Expose in the real darkroom and process outside.

John, you had answered my next question about the thomas safe light and Lodima. I need to buy one if im going to turn the whole basement into a darkroom.

[Jan Pedersen]

Ansco 130 works well with the new Lodima but as Michael said you give up the waterbath. That said, i believe that the Ansco 130 have a slight advantage in the highlights with a little more separation than Amidol (Chinese)
Try it, nice to have both options available.

[William McEwen]

Having just ordered my first Lodima paper, I was wondering if Ansco 130 or Zone VI developer work okay with it? Those have been my standards for years.

BTW, Michael, it looks like Calumet has discontinued all the Zone VI chemicals. So I'll be going back to Dektol.

[Doug Howk]

Have never tried Amidol, so no comparisons. I do like Ansco 130 with the new Lodima. It does give a slightly warmer tone than some prints I've seen dev'ed in amidol. In lieu of a water bath, pre-flashing works great. Also after initial rinse/waterbath, can paint developer on specific areas before fixing.