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Hugo Zhang
13-Apr-2010, 09:30
Well, it's been over 10 years since I last used a 45 camera. Now I am going to get my hands on a new toy, a handheld 45 camera, in a few weeks. I have to choose a lens for it and I will use the camera mostly for portrait in natural light. The factory recommeds that my lens choice should be in 120mm-150mm range with f/5.6 for easy focusing and the lens should not be super heavy.

So I would like to have some ideas as I have no experiences in handheld 45 cameras.

Thanks,
Hugo

GPS
13-Apr-2010, 09:36
135/5,6 Apo Sironar S.

Jack Dahlgren
13-Apr-2010, 09:47
If you are using a modern lens I'd go with the 135mm Sironar N as it is smaller, lighter, cheaper and on a handheld camera you don't need the larger image circle given by the Sironar S. If you are going handheld you should endeavor to keep things as light as possible.

Of course there are probably older lenses (tessars) which could be lighter yet.

IanG
13-Apr-2010, 10:08
I use an early 1950's 150mm T f4.5 Tessar (T = coated) on my Crown Graphic and while it's a superb lens at f22 a Sironar or Symmar would give better edge/corner sharpness at f11/f16. The Tessar's no lighter.

Another option (I've used) is the late production f5.6 150mm Xenar this is a much smaller & lighter lens but again it needs f22 for optimum sharpness across the frame and the image circle allows little movements.

So I'd go for a Sironar/Symmar - 135mm or 150mm as suggested above

Ian

Hugo Zhang
13-Apr-2010, 10:13
150mm Heliar will be too heavy for it? As I mentioned earlier, I will shoot mostly portraiture in black and white and would consider some older lenses with interesting characters.

GPS
13-Apr-2010, 10:14
If you are using a modern lens I'd go with the 135mm Sironar N as it is smaller, lighter, cheaper and on a handheld camera you don't need the larger image circle given by the Sironar S. If you are going handheld you should endeavor to keep things as light as possible.

Of course there are probably older lenses (tessars) which could be lighter yet.

The fact that the Sironar S has a larger image circle is exactly the reason I would choose it for - given the larger image circle, the lens will have a better resolution at 5,6 aperture on the edges of 4x5 than the smaller image circle Sironar N.
And the 5.6 aperture is often useful in handheld cameras.

GPS
13-Apr-2010, 10:17
150mm Heliar will be too heavy for it? As I mentioned earlier, I will shoot mostly portraiture in black and white and would consider some older lenses with interesting characters.

Heavy is not an disadvantage for 4x5 hand held cameras (up to a point) because they are often less shaky in hands than lighter cameras.
150mm lens is not as easy to hand hold as the shorter focal lens though...

IanG
13-Apr-2010, 10:18
150mm Heliar will be too heavy for it? As I mentioned earlier, I will shoot mostly portraiture in black and white and would consider some older lenses with interesting characters.

A Tessar would be great for portraits, or an earlier f4.7/f4.5 Xenar.

Ian

David de Gruyl
13-Apr-2010, 10:35
Unlike, apparently, everyone else, I like the Nikkor-W 135/5.6. It looks like a modern lens, though.

How are you focusing?

Hugo Zhang
13-Apr-2010, 10:46
Unlike, apparently, everyone else, I like the Nikkor-W 135/5.6. It looks like a modern lens, though.

How are you focusing?


Something like this.

Frank Petronio
13-Apr-2010, 10:52
Just go with the cheap standard lens. You don't need movements or clinical sharpness -- and you can always upgrade if you are that fussy.

But millions of Speed and Crown Graphic using photojournalists did just fine with a 127-135mm f/4.7 Optar-Ektar-Xenar-Yaserex and you will too. They managed without spending $8000 on a Littman Polaroid 110 conversion too ;-)

What you really want is the older American shutters with the press focus, I think they are faster and that makes it easier to check the GG.

Ron Marshall
13-Apr-2010, 11:01
If you are using a modern lens I'd go with the 135mm Sironar N as it is smaller, lighter, cheaper and on a handheld camera you don't need the larger image circle given by the Sironar S. If you are going handheld you should endeavor to keep things as light as possible.

Of course there are probably older lenses (tessars) which could be lighter yet.

The N is 30 grams lighter than the S, not signifigant. However, as Jack said, price may be signifigantly different!

benrains
13-Apr-2010, 11:24
Something like this.

If you're planning on using the camera's rangefinder as a focusing option, you may want to first find out what range of lenses it can accommodate... or whether it's even adjustable. I'd say base your lens choice on whatever you like using for your larger camera(s).

pau3
13-Apr-2010, 11:49
Hugo, excuse my ignorance but, what camera is that?

Best,
Pau

Hugo Zhang
13-Apr-2010, 11:57
Pau,

It's a handheld 45 for some fast fun shooting. :)

Paul Kierstead
13-Apr-2010, 13:10
pau3, I expect if you google Hugo Zhang you'll figure out where it came from :)

Hugo, do you think mere mortals will be able to purchase these in the future?

Robert Hughes
13-Apr-2010, 14:32
Just go with the cheap standard lens.
After all, you're hand holding, so your image is bound to have a little "give" to it.

What you really want is the older American shutters with the press focus...
My Busch Pressman's rangefinder is properly adjusted - when it says my subject is in focus, it's right. I don't even need to check the ground glass.

Songyun
13-Apr-2010, 19:31
damn, Hugo, I guess something is going to be expensive now on ebay. BTW, I just got a 135mm sironar s. The heliar 150 is not that heavy... I hope that we dont end up in the same bidding war.

Hugo Zhang
13-Apr-2010, 21:23
Songyun,

Check your PM. I am going to think about the lenses. The lenses will not be interchangeable. Maybe I will trade my 210mm Lanthar for a 150mm one, just for this. :)

Thanks everybody!!!

JRFrench
13-Apr-2010, 21:48
I plan on using a 90mm f6.7 old Graflex Raptar I have acquired for a very resonable price, I am going to have the lens/shutter assembly bayonet mount to the front of the camera. I will have a 135mm f5.6 Symmar-S as the alternative lens for portraitish work. Hopefully I will be able to make it easy to change the range finder between lens changes.

I am always surprised that almost every folding camera that I have ever seen sticks with a normal lens, when I do most of my general purpose shooting with a wide angle. Hence making my own :D

Kirk Fry
13-Apr-2010, 23:44
"I will use the camera mostly for portrait in natural light." Seems to me something a bit longer might be in order, say in the 200mm ish range. An old, fast tessar of some sort.
KFry

Hugo Zhang
13-Apr-2010, 23:46
JRFrench,

I think I will get a 135mm f4.7 Raptar as I have used a convertible Raptar for my 8x10 and was so impressed with the lens. It's cheap fun.

There are more pictures of this hand held camera from this link.

http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=727784&pagenumber=2

JRFrench
14-Apr-2010, 01:35
Sounds like a good plan Hugo, a 135 will be very nice for 'environmental portraits'.

Thats a very nice conversion of that camera, some nice milling on the aluminium holder. I am too using a polaroid folding camera as a doner for all the moving parts. I plan on using a Canon EOS lens mount on the front to allow me to bayonet mount all my lenses. Mounts will be 'borrowed' from extension tubes and adapters.

joshdaskew
14-Apr-2010, 04:32
Hi Hugo, Was wondering how much one of these might cost? I have been looking at a razzle but have been put off by the extremely long waiting times. As for the Littman, well fair to say his prices are ridiculous and he is definitely one beer short of a six pack! Cheers Josh

eddie
14-Apr-2010, 04:54
a 3.5 tessar or a 3.5 cooke.

the tessar may be a bit heavy so try the 4.5. i guess if you are going with 4.5 a heliar may be "better"

the cooke has no shutter.

Mick Fagan
14-Apr-2010, 05:51
I have a Razzle equipped with the little Fujinon - W f/6.3 150.

It's a superb lens, it will cover the format very well and with my particular camera, it allows me to accurately focus down to 1 metre for portraits.

I also have another one of these lenses on my Shen Hao.

These lenses are very cheap, very small and very good.

Mick.

Hugo Zhang
14-Apr-2010, 06:03
eddie,

I am not sure I can use barrel lenses on this little camera with a Packard or Galli shutter.

Ralph Miyashiro
14-Apr-2010, 15:01
To me , hand held portraits mean no GG or critical focus, so ultimate sharpness is not number one. Camera shake can still annoy, so long lenses are challenging. Speed is what I'd look for. Probably tessar design, pleasing wide open and inexpensive.
Ralph

David de Gruyl
14-Apr-2010, 15:46
To me , hand held portraits mean no GG or critical focus, so ultimate sharpness is not number one. Camera shake can still annoy, so long lenses are challenging. Speed is what I'd look for.


Speed leads to its own problems: you run out of depth of field in case you focus too quickly.

I prefer to shoot my crown at f/8.

What I would suggest is a grafmatic filmholder. Working ones are fantastic. Sublime, even. Of course, they are a bit temperamental and can stop working...especially if you are fairly violent with them (I am).

Chris Dunham
16-Apr-2010, 20:26
Performance in available light is the key to hand held 4x5. The best I've used so far is the Japan market Yashica-Yashinon 127mm 1:4.7 It is a fast enough lens and performs quite well wide open.

Chris.

Jim Galli
16-Apr-2010, 23:11
I think you passed on the Heliar too quickly. The 150's in the rimset Compur are not heavy at all.

Ari
17-Apr-2010, 00:40
I would suggest, in no particular order:
Fujinon 150/f6.3
Sironar-N 150/f5.6
Rodenstock Ysarex 127/f4.7

Looks like a great camera, Hugo.

Per Madsen
17-Apr-2010, 02:52
The Apo-symmar-L 120 mm 5.6 are very good at 5.6 and even better at 11.

If you like the classic 35 mm on a 35 mm camera, it is just perfect.

It is also small and very light.