What are/were The Great Masters using?

[Michael Nagl]

Dear Colleagues,

I think it would make it easier for everyone who has a hard time deciding which camera to get if they knew what The Great Masters were using. Let´s make a list!
Here are a few names to start with:
Jeff Wall - Linhof Bi-Kardan
Sally Mann - Toyo 810M
Hiroshi Sugimoto - Phillips (but that´s just hearsay)
Kyogi Takahashi - Deardorff
Jock Sturges - Kodak Master View
Richard Misrach - Deardorff

It would also be of great interest to learn about the lenses/focal lenghts they preferred. Please contribute your knowledge!
Thanks
Michael

[Armin Seeholzer]

Richard Avedon Sinar P and Deardorff, so if you would like to take pictures like Avedon just buy this two cameras and you are the man;--))))))
What I recomend buy the camera which fits your hands and your needs best, everything else is just hunting for the magic bullet!

Cheers Armin

[catshaver]

Brett Weston liked the Calumet C1 and the Rollei SL66. Walker Evans liked a Kodak Pocket folder. Edward Weston loved his Century Universal. Imogen Cunningham and Irving Penn liked their Rolleiflexes. These guys could make great shots with a cardboard box and a pinhole, I reckon. It's the vision behind the camera that makes the master.

[MIke Sherck]

I think that we all understand by now that just having the stuff doesn't mean we can photograph like <insert name here>.

But a lot of us are gearheads; photography in general seems to draw this sort. It's fun to think that <famous photographer> made <famous photograph> with <equipment>. It's like telling blond jokes: we don't mean anything by it. So I say, go ahead and have fun.

Edward Weston made any number of wonderful photographs with what looked a lot to me like a Kodak D2, which he used forever, then gave it to one of his sons (Brett?) and bought the Century with the ill-fitting back (recalling from his Daybooks.) St. Ansel seemed to have a different camera for practically every photograph he took; he must have been a gearhead of modern proportions. I think it is interesting that we know more about their cameras than we do their lenses. I wonder if they thought the cameras weren't important so they could be talked about, but the lenses were important, maybe along the lines of not wanting rivals to know, so they didn't talk about them? Dunno, but you'd think that with all the modern emphasis on lenses and de-emphasis on camera brand, we'd know more about their lenses than we seem to.

Mike

[Frank Petronio]

I have a late photo of Ansel using a old-style 4x5 Arca-Swiss, apparently he drank the Kool-Aid first.

His technical books often mention his equipment in the photo captions.

There are photos of Avedon with a Sinar Norma, perhaps he got the P later. I bet he only used the Deardorff occasionally for its effect on the sitter. I also read he liked a 360mm Symmar and Fuji lens of the same length.

[Michael Nagl]

Burtynsky - 4x5 Technika

[Bill_1856]

Dear Colleagues,

I think it would make it easier for everyone who has a hard time deciding which camera to get if they knew what The Great Masters were using.

Michael, mostly I use a 4x5 Crown Graphic with a 162mm Wollensak Raptar lens.

[Richard K.]

Burtynsky - 4x5 Technika

He worked for years with a Phillips 8x10 also...

[William McEwen]

Sturges -- is he still using the Master View? Seems to me he sold it a few years ago.

Stieglitz -- 8x10 Kodak 2D.

[Oren Grad]

By all accounts Nick Nixon is a serial monogamist - he keeps changing his camera. By now he must have used every 8x10 field camera under the sun, plus a few 11x14's to boot.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

By all accounts Nick Nixon is a serial monogamist - he keeps changing his camera. By now he must have used every 8x10 field camera under the sun, plus a few 11x14's to boot.

There was quite a deluge of his cameras for sale a year ago. A few were for sale on this and other forums as well as ebay, all for sale by proxy. What was amazing was the huge variety of brand, weight, and quality; If I didn't know better I would think he was flailing, and looking for the "magic bullet" just like the rest of us...

[Drew Wiley]

Who gives a rat's *** ?? Forget the hero worship nonsense and go take great pictures with your own equipment.

[Oren Grad]

There was quite a deluge of his cameras for sale a year ago. A few were for sale on this and other forums as well as ebay, all for sale by proxy. What was amazing was the huge variety of brand, weight, and quality; If I didn't know better I would think he was flailing, and looking for the "magic bullet" just like the rest of us...

Quite a few years ago he sold a vertical Phillips 8x10 Explorer on eBay. For all I know, it's the only one that exists.

[catshaver]

Who gives a rat's *** ?? Forget the hero worship nonsense and go take great pictures with your own equipment.

Drew!

Come on, be a sport.

[Oren Grad]

And since exotic cameras are fun, I should also mention Kenro Izu's 14x20 Deardorff.

[neil poulsen]

I recall that Ansel Adams reflected on the following in his autobiography. When asked which camera he prefers, he said that he responded, the heaviest one I can carry.

I never met him, but from the reading I've done, he really liked his Sinar P 4x5.

With that, I don't know that it's worth going out and purchasing the heaviest camera that you can carry. The Sinar P fits into that category. I imagine A.A. had an alternative, when he ventured further away from his vehicle. Bear in mind, the heavier the camera, the heavier the tripod.

View cameras pretty much all have the same design. They're an enclosed area with a lens on one end and a ground glass on the other. Pretty simple. But within that simple design, they each have their own desirable characteristics.

Think about the kind of photography that you want to do and select a camera that's suited for that purpose. For example, flat beds are lighter weight and more portable. Do you like longer or shorter focal lengths in your photography? If longer, then you would want a camera that has more bellows draw. If shorter, then you would want a camera with an interchangeable "bag" bellows. Or, you can find a camera that supports both. There are cameras that have ample movements, and others that have limited movements. Some are are well suited for landscape. Others are optimized for architecture. Many designs can do both quite well.

What kind of photography do you want to do?

[Ken Lee]

"..which camera... lenses/focal lenghts... Please contribute your knowledge!"

"Who gives a rat's *** ??"

All questions are welcome. There is no such thing as a bad question. This one, is an especially good question !

Some of us came to Large Format, and to this forum, by asking a similar question.

[Steven Barall]

Steven Barall currently uses a Shen Hao 4X5 but has in the past has used various Sinars and Deardorfs. I hope that helps.

[Brian Ellis]

Morley Baer - Ansco 8x10S

He used that one camera for virtually his entire career, no gear head he.

[Robert Hughes]

...for everyone who has a hard time deciding which camera to get if they knew what The Great Masters were using...

Edward Steichen (photographing Isadora Duncan at the Parthenon) - the waiter's $5 Kodak Brownie.

Can you top that?

[Robert Skeoch]

Where did I put that silver bullet. I'm sure it's around here somewhere.

It's fun to see what the great masters were using, what's disappointing is that even with the old "clunkers" their pictures are better than mine, and I use the finest gear ever built.

-Rob

[Richard K.]

Morley Baer - Ansco 8x10S

He used that one camera for virtually his entire career, no gear head he.

AND its infrastructure was re-enforced with common elastic bands (to hold it closed and to hold the back tightly enough against the holder when exposing. Interesting guy, he. Met hin at the AA WS back in '89. Also attending were Michael Kenna, John Sexton, Ruth Bernhard. We got to see AA's darkroom and met Virginia. Totally groovy experience. And then...ooops...sorrry, I got carried away!! Yes Baer used one camera!

[Brian Ellis]

AND its infrastructure was re-enforced with common elastic bands (to hold it closed and to hold the back tightly enough against the holder when exposing. Interesting guy, he. Met hin at the AA WS back in '89. Also attending were Michael Kenna, John Sexton, Ruth Bernhard. We got to see AA's darkroom and met Virginia. Totally groovy experience. And then...ooops...sorrry, I got carried away!! Yes Baer used one camera!

Yes, I've heard that. Also heard his bellows was loaded with pinholes that he covered with the dark cloth.

That sounds like an incredible workshop you attended. I was sorry that I never had a chance to meet Morley Baer, I admire a lot of his work. He died just a short time after I became seriously involved with photography again. But I've attended a lot of John Sexton's workshops and heard a lot about him from John. John used an assistant in one of his darkroom workshops who had been Morley Baer's assistant. He said that Morley trained him to use an 8x10 camera by having him go through all the motions of making photographs but without any film in the camera. Which isn't all that odd except that he had to do it for hours every day for a solid month before he was allowed to use film.

[Kirk Gittings]

Maybe Merg will chime in here, he knew Morley well. I wonder did he use the same camera for his commercial architectural photography?

[Colin Graham]

Edward Steichen (photographing Isadora Duncan at the Parthenon) - the waiter's $5 Kodak Brownie.

Can you top that?

Durer sketching his mother with a chunk of burnt willow?

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/25/7325-004-DCA09D23.jpg

[Merg Ross]

Maybe Merg will chime in here, he knew Morley well. I wonder did he use the same camera for his commercial architectural photography?

Kirk, this is very interesting, as I was writing about my memories of Morley earlier today. I promised to get back to you, and will.

For the moment, let me say that I first met Morley and Frances at Edward Weston's house when I was eleven. To elaborate would take time, and not be relevant to this thread.

I am pleasantly surprised to see Morley mentioned as one of the greats. He was certainly large in my life and career as a photographer.

To answer your question, yes, Morley took that old beat-up 8x10 on assignment, processed the b&w in Pyro, and made contact prints. I have some 5x7 prints of his that I assume were done with a reducing back on the 8x10. His prints were at the apex of technique.

As an aside, Brett Weston was mentioned earlier in this thread. I can recall nine cameras that he used. To repeat the obvious, his cameras had little to do with his status among the great photographers. However, there is no harm in asking.

[Allen in Montreal]

....... Met hin at the AA WS back in '89. Also attending were Michael Kenna, John Sexton, Ruth Bernhard........... Totally groovy experience.........

That must have been an amazing time!

[RichSBV]

Both Edward Weston and Adams preferred the Century Universal at about the same time and I believe they communicated between them about it. Weston's "ill-fitting back" was most probably the minor problem of one of the pins for vertical orientation being just slightly out of place (since they were shipped assembled and in horizontal config). I have a CU here that still has this 'problem' 70+ years later and I refuse to move the pin as I consider it a collectible flaw. This is also a special camera that does not get used for other reasons... Both Adams and Weston turned in their CU's for Anscos. Not because it was a better camera but because the Ansco could more easily work with the much heavier long lenses. The CU's single short coming is that it doesn't handle long, heavy lenses well.

Berenice Abbott also preferred the Century Universal for it's capabilities, unmatched by any other folding camera of the time. Oddly enough, she also preferred the inexpensive Dagor lenses over better quality ones because she got two for the (lower) price of one!

And in spite of what some say here about the thread, it was Berenice Abbott that originally got me interested in Century Universals and I will always thank her for that!




Edward Weston made any number of wonderful photographs with what looked a lot to me like a Kodak D2, which he used forever, then gave it to one of his sons (Brett?) and bought the Century with the ill-fitting back (recalling from his Daybooks.) St. Ansel seemed to have a different camera for practically every photograph he took; he must have been a gearhead of modern proportions. I think it is interesting that we know more about their cameras than we do their lenses. I wonder if they thought the cameras weren't important so they could be talked about, but the lenses were important, maybe along the lines of not wanting rivals to know, so they didn't talk about them? Dunno, but you'd think that with all the modern emphasis on lenses and de-emphasis on camera brand, we'd know more about their lenses than we seem to.

Mike

[al olson]

I recall that Ansel Adams reflected on the following in his autobiography. When asked which camera he prefers, he said that he responded, the heaviest one I can carry.

I never met him, but from the reading I've done, he really liked his Sinar P 4x5.

With that, I don't know that it's worth going out and purchasing the heaviest camera that you can carry. The Sinar P fits into that category. I imagine A.A. had an alternative, when he ventured further away from his vehicle. Bear in mind, the heavier the camera, the heavier the tripod.

...



About three months ago I discovered Ansel's autobiography in our local library. I checked it out and read it. As I recall it was copyrighted in 1982 and I believe he died in 1984.

In one of the later chapters he makes the statement, and I will have to paraphrase it to the best of my memory, that:

People always associate my work with large format cameras. The reality is that for the past 20 years most of my photos have been made with my Haselblad.

[Duane Polcou]

I am pleasantly surprised to see Morley mentioned as one of the greats. He was certainly large in my life and career as a photographer.

Anyone who wishes to see Morley Baer's simply magnificent B/W's shot with an 8x10 try to find a copy of "The Wilder Shore", published by the Sierra Club. It's long out of print, but worth it if you can find one.

[Merg Ross]

Anyone who wishes to see Morley Baer's simply magnificent B/W's shot with an 8x10 try to find a copy of "The Wilder Shore", published by the Sierra Club. It's long out of print, but worth it if you can find one.

This book, still available from Photography West in Carmel, has some excellent reproductions: Light Years/Photography of Morley Baer

http://www.photographywestgraphics.com/

[Ken Lee]

"Edward Steichen (photographing Isadora Duncan at the Parthenon) - the waiter's $5 Kodak Brownie. Can you top that?"

"Durer sketching his mother with a chunk of burnt willow?"

Perhaps this mural dated 15,000 BCE by the anonymous... Frenchman ? :)

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/cavepainting.jpg

[Michael Roberts]

Michael, mostly I use a 4x5 Crown Graphic with a 162mm Wollensak Raptar lens.

Damn--I've wondered about that for years--thanks Bill!:)

My recollection from reading--Edward Weston used an 8x10 Korona during and after his Mexico period--up to around 1931 or so. So the shells, peppers, etc. were done with that. The nudes of Charis, second trip to Oceano, and Guggenheim and Leaves photos would have been made with the Century Universal. I've read he later acquired an Ansco, but not when. I assume the heavier Ansco would have been beneficial in dealing with windy conditions at Point Lobos.

Ansel used primarily 4x5 and full plate Koronas during the 1920s in Yosemite during a lot of his High Sierra and Sierra Club climbs. He used the CU 8x10 for his early Golden Gate Before the Bridge photo and during the early 30s when shooting and printing for his show at An American Place. He favored heavier cameras like the Ansco later when he started using the car-mounted platforms and shooting from/near his car....It's no wonder both AA and Brett switched to medium format later in their careers as enlarging became popular and they rarely printed larger than 20x24 or so....

[Brian Ellis]

"Edward Steichen (photographing Isadora Duncan at the Parthenon) - the waiter's $5 Kodak Brownie. Can you top that?"

"Durer sketching his mother with a chunk of burnt willow?"

Perhaps this mural dated 15,000 BCE by the anonymous... Frenchman ? :)

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/cavepainting.jpg

What's BCE (besides my initials)?

[Richard Wasserman]

What's BCE (besides my initials)?

"Before Common Era"

Here you go– http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era

[Merg Ross]

Another camera that Edward Weston put to good use was a 4x5 Auto-Graflex fitted with a Meyer Plasmat (f:5.5/10.75"). He used it primarily for portraits and nudes. The Ansco Commercial View was his last 8x10.

[Michael Nagl]

Robert Adams, 4x5" Nagaoka (what is a Nagaoka?)

[William McEwen]

Robert Adams, 4x5" Nagaoka (what is a Nagaoka?)

Adams did use a Nagoaka, but he has used a 35mm Nikon F3 and a 28mm lens for a long while now.

[Frank_E]

Robert Adams, 4x5" Nagaoka (what is a Nagaoka?)

that is a Nagaoka in post 422 of this following thread

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=36782&page=43&highlight=nagaoka

it is a field camera similar to a Tachara but not quite as solid
I shoot with one also

[Bill_1856]

Another camera that Edward Weston put to good use was a 4x5 Auto-Graflex fitted with a Meyer Plasmat (f:5.5/10.75"). He used it primarily for portraits and nudes. The Ansco Commercial View was his last 8x10.

Many of his portraits with the 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 Graflex were sublime, (Tina, Neil, Nahui Olin, etc). But after he shifted to the 4x5 in 1933 they seemed to lose their insight. Probably because he could no longer easily work hand-held.

[Merg Ross]

Many of his portraits with the 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 Graflex were sublime, (Tina, Neil, Nahui Olin, etc). But after he shifted to the 4x5 in 1933 they seemed to lose their insight. Probably because he could no longer easily work hand-held.

The 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 Graflex portraits were indeed superb, although often not very sharp. The lack of sharpness didn't really matter, in fact sometimes worked well (thinking of Galvan, Shooting). Edward used that camera handheld at a 1/10 second. The later 4x5 Auto-Graflex, as you note, was most often used on a tripod.

Edward allowed Brett to use the 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 Graflex in Mexico. When he was twenty, his mother bought him a Korona 8x10.

[Richard K.]

That must have been an amazing time!

It truly was. Akin to a religious experience sitting in Ansel's home and standing in his darkroom. Wish I was old enough to appreciate it better - I was only 42 at the time. Then of course there was that wonderful wiry and wise Ruth Bernhard. What a font of inspiration. Morley Baer regaled us with stories - he was still at the time bitter on occasion when people greeted him in the wild with "Hi Ansel". Michael Kenna was selling prints at a price that would make one say today @#$%## why didn't I buy a couple of dozen?!?! @#$%## why didn't I buy a couple of dozen?!?! Very nice guy also. Sexton misty eyed and choking up when recalling how Ansel changed his life's direction. And meeting sweet Virginia. Oh yes that was a time.

[CarstenW]

Here is a permalink to the Nagaoka (just click on the post number in the top right of each post):

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=443443&postcount=422

[Don Dudenbostel]

Brett Weston liked the Calumet C1 and the Rollei SL66. Walker Evans liked a Kodak Pocket folder. Edward Weston loved his Century Universal. Imogen Cunningham and Irving Penn liked their Rolleiflexes. These guys could make great shots with a cardboard box and a pinhole, I reckon. It's the vision behind the camera that makes the master.

I spoke with Brett in the early 70's and at that time he was using the Calumet as was Cole. Again at that time he used Rollei SL66's but also had done a great deal with an 11x14 but don't know the make. A couple of years ago I did a private workshop on platinum printing with Coles son Kim. Kim was using his unkle Bretts RB67 and calumet 8x10. Kim lives at Edwards home in Wildcat Hill and has Edwards 8x10 and Graflex sitting in the home. I believe Edwards 8x10 was actually an Ansco and the Graflex was the long bellows auto model. I also knew Imoven and yes she shot a Rollei tlr but also shot many of her images with a Korona 5x7.

I forgot to mention that Sexton purchased my brothers Deardorff Special 4x5 but have no idea what he uses today. Morley Baer used an Ansco 8x10 and SWC Hasselblad. Phillip Hyde was useng a Baby Dearforff in the 70's when I met him and Ansel was mainly using Hasselblads as he grew older.

[Jim Galli]

I use a Kodak 8X10 2D.

Thanks for asking.

[Frank Petronio]

Not that I think these Ansel Adams disciples qualify as "Masters" themselves, more likely they are highly skilled practitioners, but Sexton was using a righteous Linhof Master Technika last time I noticed.

[Wayne Lambert]

In the summer of 1970 I took a Univ. of California workshop on the making of a photographic book. AA, Beaumont and Nancy Newhall, and Adrian Wilson were the instructors. We spent a week in Monterey photographing and a week in Santa Cruz putting together a book dummy. Morley stopped in frequently and helped with the photography. At the time I was considering architectural photography as a career, and one day Morley took me to lunch and advised me to give it a try. I still sometimes wonder how it might have turned out. Like all have said, he was a super nice guy--- and a great photographer. I wish his work was better known outside of California. Morley took the group photograph of the workshop participants, the only time I ever saw his legendary camera. As I recall Nancy Newhall was lying down odalisque-style in front of the group. (I no longer have the photograph---a theft some years later).

[Merg Ross]

This topic is interesting although, as we know, equipment has little to do with a photographer's vision, nor his/her success at producing an image on paper. Often, camera or format is used to define the output of a particular photographer. Not always so.

Don, in a previous post, gave a good account of the family Weston. To that, I would add particular to Brett; I can recall eleven cameras that he used, from 35mm to 11x14. I had the opportunity to view his groundglass on several of those featuring large format.

My question is, how do you consider the work of Brett Weston; as a large format photographer, or otherwise.

And, at last, I have the answer to Jim Galli's wonderful work; perhaps there is a silver bullet!

[Bill_1856]

, equipment has little to do with a photographer's vision,


Merg, I'm not sure that's necessarily true. We all know the saying that "...a great photographer could make great pictures with a pinhole box camera..." but I think there's often an intimate relationship between the photographer and his equipment. Our above discussion of Edward Weston and his loss of insight when he went from the 3x4 Graflex to the 4x5 is an excellent example of this.

My question is, how do you consider the work of Brett Weston; as a large format photographer, or otherwise.

His prints of his own work are magnificant, but his vision was quite limited. IMO, the expression that he is quoted as using, "elegant garp," exactly describes most of his work, (I presume that "garp" was not the actual epithat which he used). OTOH I have friends who consider him to be the greatest of the California LF photographers.

[Thebes]

Edward Steichen (photographing Isadora Duncan at the Parthenon) - the waiter's $5 Kodak Brownie.

Can you top that?

I think we have to remember how much $5 bought in that day. People are fond of saying that AA was said to have overpaid for a $5 lens, or Weston sold his prints for "only" $7-$10, etc. Back in the day my, new to me, Eastman No 2 View 7x11 sold for $50 with a case and holder... judging from the adverts I pulled up on google it was one of the hot cameras, heavily by advertised in the photo mags... so a $5 consumer camera seems normally priced about like an entry level P&S digicam today, Weston sold his prints for about what an "average" photographer might ask unframed today, etc, once you figure the corrected value of the dollar. I've taken great photographs with cameras I've paid less than that $5 for, once corrected for inflation. Of course I ain't famous (yet).

[Merg Ross]

Merg, I'm not sure that's necessarily true. We all know the saying that "...a great photographer could make great pictures with a pinhole box camera..." but I think there's often an intimate relationship between the photographer and his equipment. Our above discussion of Edward Weston and his loss of insight when he went from the 3x4 Graflex to the 4x5 is an excellent example of this.

My question is, how do you consider the work of Brett Weston; as a large format photographer, or otherwise.

His prints of his own work are magnificant, but his vision was quite limited. IMO, the expression that he is quoted as using, "elegant garp," exactly describes most of his work, (I presume that "garp" was not the actual epithat which he used). OTOH I have friends who consider him to be the greatest of the California LF photographers.
Bill, upon reflection, I can think of contradictions to my statement.

You make a good point on the relationship of the photographer to his equipment; it can be an intimate one, and is often discernible in the resulting image.

I would not consider the vision of Brett Weston to be limited, having recently viewed a large body of his work spanning 60 years. His expression, "elegant gorp", was reserved for the work done late in his career, characterized often by bold abstractions of rot and decay. He did not use the term in reference to his earlier work.