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View Full Version : Arca-Swiss F-Metric 8x10 - some questions



Nelson Sousa
12-Mar-2010, 10:47
Hello!

I followed Frank's advice and started a new thread with these questions (I had already posted them in the thread "Can a rail camera be better to work faster in the field?")

OK, I’m thinking about buying the Arca-Swiss F-Metric 8x10 with the Orbix feature.

So, I was getting information about the system in a catalog and in a French site that seems to be the closest thing to the company official web site (http://www.galerie-photo.com/a-visit-to-arca-swiss.html), but reading Ling Z’s thread “Praises on new Arca Swiss F-Metric 8X10” I’m thinking their info is not updated.

Mainly, concerning bellows properties: looking at that site, the bellows seemed to be very limiting for extreme wide-angle lenses, even using the wide-angle bellows, but Ling Z refers “The new bellows is very soft and flexible. My 65mm lens can focus at infinity without any problem.” Is this confirmed by practice? Are we speaking about the regular bellows or the wide-angle one? The leather or the Synthetic one?
Is now easy to use a lens like the Super-Symmar XL Aspheric 5,6/150mm?

And is it possible to positively use the Super-Angulon XL 5,6/72mm with this outfit? (without changing the back stand for a 5x7 one – film hard to find, and more gear and clumsiness to go around. And I think that having more film available will allow for more displacement of the lens, right? We can crop the void film after.)

Is it possible to use the Apo-Tele-Xenar 12/800mm, or similar Nikkors, with the regular or long bellows?

2: From the same thread “Anyone have any complaints about wobble in the rear 8x10 standard when it is locked down with some tilt applied?” “Rory, I agree there's slight wobble in the rear standard when it's locked down. This is due to the nature how the frame is attached to the F-Metric function carrier.”
As this been a real issue using the camera? Any way of improving it?

3: The choice between telescopic and collapsible bench (rail). In real use, what are the pros and cons of each one? Are they equally strong/rigid and reliable?
What is the “closed” size of the standard (50cm) telescopic one?
Is the collapsible bench in the advertising photo the standard 50cm (It would be something like 25cm when collapsed, with the two function carriers attached to the same portion resulting in a very compact configuration of the whole camera)? (I´m thinking about packing issues)

4: The F-metric outfit has a rear format frame of the F-Classic type. Is there a 8x10 F-metric one? Are there real advantages in changing this specific component from the F-Classic to the F-Metric?

Thanks, Nelson

Eric Leppanen
12-Mar-2010, 12:18
So, I was getting information about the system in a catalog and in a French site that seems to be the closest thing to the company official web site (http://www.galerie-photo.com/a-visit-to-arca-swiss.html), but reading Ling Z’s thread “Praises on new Arca Swiss F-Metric 8X10” I’m thinking their info is not updated.Here is another source of Arca Swiss information:

http://www.precisioncameraworks.com/Pages/arca_core.html

The only difference between the F-Classic and F-Metric is that the F-metric function carriers support geared shift.


Is now easy to use a lens like the Super-Symmar XL Aspheric 5,6/150mm?...Is it possible to use the Apo-Tele-Xenar 12/800mm, or similar Nikkors, with the regular or long bellows?The standard 8x10 bellows supports a SS150XL with full movements. The standard bellows extends to 500cm (actually a bit more), so you will need the extra long bellows if you want to shoot a 800mm (or longer) telephoto, or a 600mm non-telephoto lens such as the Fuji 600C. The extra long bellows will also be needed if you want to shoot close-ups with a 450mm lens.

An alternative, if you plan to buy both 4x5 and 8x10 rear standards and alternate between the two formats, is to purchase an additional 4x5 standard (such as from an Arca Discovery camera) and use this standard to connect the 4x5 bellows to the front of your 8x10 camera (instead of connecting the front of the 8x10 bellows to the front standard, you connect it to the back of the intermediate standard; you then connect the 4x5 bellows from the front of the intermediate standard to the rear of the front standard). This gets a bit mechanically complicated, but is cheaper than purchasing an extra long 8x10 bellows (which is quite expensive).


And is it possible to positively use the Super-Angulon XL 5,6/72mm with this outfit?To my knowledge, the SA72XL does not cover 8x10. I don't know if the 8x10 bellows will compress enough to focus the SA72XL at infinity; even if it does, I am sure you will have considerable vignetting due to the limited lens image circle. A SS110XL can be focused at infinity (and closer) with no problem, although this lens barely covers 8x10 so no movements are possible. Also, IMHO the SS110XL definitely requires a center filter when used on 8x10.

Regarding wobble on the Arca 8x10 standards: there is some, but IMHO it is comparable to other 8x10 field cameras I have used (no worse than an Ebony 8x10, in my opinion). I have not found it to be bothersome. A studio monorail will be more rigid, but also considerably heavier and bulkier.

As for your other questions, I would strongly suggest getting in touch with an Arca dealer to discuss the camera system in depth. There are many possible configurations you can use, each with their pro's and con's, and for such a major investment you should definitely have all the detailed information you need to make a decision. I spoke to my dealer (Rod Klukas of Photomark in Phoenix, AZ) on the telephone for at least a 1/2 hour before settling on the configuration options that I wanted.

Good luck!

jeroldharter
12-Mar-2010, 12:44
I have a 4x5 F-Line Metric with Orbix and the telescoping rail, so I can't comment on the 8x10 specifically.

The telescoping rail is more rigid than the collapsing rail because of the additional interconnecting rail upon which the smaller telescoping pieces slide. The bottom rail comes in different lengths, so I would get the long one. That way, you can use a piece of short rail and a piece of long rail on top for most situations. This allows you to position both the front and rear standards on the short rail (like in the pictures you posted) for transport, and then attach the long piece of rail for focusing in the field. Otherwise, transporting is awkward. The downside of the collapsible rail is that it collapses in half, so if you get a long rail for focusing an 8x10, then 1/2 of long is still too long for transporting (someone will correct me if I am wrong).

The geared movements on my Metric are like silk. The Arcas are almost too nice to use!

I second the recommendation to speak to Rod Klucas at Photomark. Very knowledgeable and helpful.

Robert Hughes
12-Mar-2010, 13:04
Hh-what? How could it be a metric 8x10? You trying to confuse me? :confused:

jeroldharter
12-Mar-2010, 14:18
I looked more closely at your picture and that is a collapsible rail, not a telescoping rail as I mentioned. But the rail shown on the 8x10 camera is pretty short, not nearly long enough for a long lens. So you would need an extension rail. Not sure how rigid that would be with a 600+ lens.

philippe loizeau
13-Mar-2010, 13:50
Hello from France
I use a 8x10 pre M line back frame + a pre M Line front frame (with geared rise and tilt) on both actual metric supports
the all 8x10 camera stand on a 15cm rail, I have a 30 cm extension bracket (042130) with a 30 cm standard rail standing on it + a 25 cm rail extension and a 15cm extension rail (15+15 +30 +25+ 15 between the rail = 100cm)

This way, with the standard bellow, I can use a fujiC 600cm without restriction, a SSXL 110mm with back tilt, a Nikkor SW 150mm with movement
in this way, the camera is very compact
Hope this help
regards
Philippe