Citrizinic Acid of Alt E6 process: Where has it all gone?

[emo supremo]

I really need some help finding out where to get citrizinic acid. Any suppliers out there?

Where has all gone the E6 chemicals gone? Artcraft Supplies in Altamount NY has supplied my needs (they still carry the dye couplers) but I see citrizinic acid is no longer on offer. Why?

Photog's Formulary doesn't list it (they don't even carry CD3 or 4)
Is there something I should know/be worried about above and beyond my MSDS?

Alternatively, what are you using as a substitute for the traditional seven step reversal development process. Surely everyone doesn't use kits for their 'chromes.

[IanG]

Ask the PF, they have chemistry that's not listed, and should be able to order almost anything as well from their suppliers.

Ian

[emo supremo]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and do a Sherlock Holmes: this chemical cannot disappear off the face of the earth and oxygen salts of citric acid are spelled 'citrAte'? Are my formuli spelled 'citrizinic' acid really 'citrAzinic acid'?
Regretably, my formuli do no have the CAS number etc. that could permit a match.

When I was a young student my lab TA's drilled all this prep/lookup work into us. Boy, you'd better watch out if you hadn't done a full lab write up in your notebook BEFORE measuring chemicals. Apparently this isn't being stressed anymore ergo my dilema.
This is why students are growing up stupid.

[emo supremo]

BTW: my formuli come from the 1980's from an outfit called "Zone V" of Stratford VT.
Anybody know what happened to them? Man, those guys knew more than Gandolf did.

[emo supremo]

Yes Ian, so will Artcraft. But basing your chemistry on asking a supplier to ask a supplier if a supplier has any left in a drum is a bit dicey to depend on.
(Hey, that's the begining of a poem know that i see it typed.)

[Dan Fromm]

Zone V? Could you have meant Zone IV or Zone VI? Yeah. Zone VI, that's what you want.

Re "citrazinic acid", Google returned 15,700 hits on it. When sent to look for "citrizinic acid," it suggested "citrazinic acid." Shame on you, e-s.

[emo supremo]

I am not yet ready to impale myself on my petard.

I am looking at the originals purchased back in the 1980's of their "E-6" formula (nb: not my typing/typos in my spreadsheet but the actual original Zone V's printings) and it is spelled "citrizinic" on multiple instances on multiple pages. My bottle says "citrizinic acid". Never does the spelling 'citrazinic" appear.
So are they the same?

And yes, it is Zone V with a roman numer 'five' of South Straford, Vermont.

Anyone body out there have a MERC handy to look up whether or not they are the same molecule? Same CAS #?

Dan From is right, the google search turns up nothing of import for citrizinic. When I'm n the university library it will be off to the old Bielstein.

[IanG]

Emo, company's like Sigma Aldrich carry a huge range chemicals, and they won't be scraping the bottom of a barrel to supply Citrazinic Acid.

It's typo, I have an E6 formula here that I used to make up that uses 1.2g Citrazinic acid in the colour developer.

Ian

[emo supremo]

Hey, Hey, Success. Artcraft's Michael Jacobsen pulled a rabbit out of his hat and scored some citrizinic for me. http://www.opie.net/orphy/photo/dr/wkft-e6.html types it as "citrazinic" but I'd go to the gallows screaming my innocence Dan: it's citrizinic in Zone V's notes.
Mr. Jacobsen was helpful about what to do about the CD3 vs. CD4 issue. My Zone V formula called for CD4 and I'll try the CD3 if anyone wishes to know how it works out. BTW, this is an important titbit of info bec CD-4's shelf life is short compared to CD-3.
For those without time or patience CD-4 is on the PF. I wish Mike would start carrying it again.

[emo supremo]

One must be cautious Ian, and do not go nuts with Aldritch. Even with a Ed-discount the cost of "ACS" grade or "USP" grade will preclude any savings mixing your own. You would only be left with the benefit of control of the process.
Case in point: cost out ammonium thiosulfate in powder. Expensive. Same amount in 60% solution: much less expensive. Value of the deal: nothing, you have to ship 10 lb of the solution.
They get us either way.

[D. Bryant]

One must be cautious Ian, and do not go nuts with Aldritch. Even with a Ed-discount the cost of "ACS" grade or "USP" grade will preclude any savings mixing your own. You would only be left with the benefit of control of the process.
Case in point: cost out ammonium thiosulfate in powder. Expensive. Same amount in 60% solution: much less expensive. Value of the deal: nothing, you have to ship 10 lb of the solution.
They get us either way.

Never purchase someone else's water if possible. Shipping water is expensive.

Don Bryant