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Michael Alpert
11-Feb-2010, 12:02
For years I've had some 8x10 Toyo holders that I keep out of the way because of their pungent chemical smell. Other forum members have commented on the problem. Have any of you found a solution (literally, a solvent) that will wash away the odor?

cowanw
11-Feb-2010, 14:28
Sell them to me:rolleyes: and you will never notice the smell again.
Regards
Bill

Sal Santamaura
11-Feb-2010, 16:33
...Have any of you found a solution...?Yes, Lisco/Fidelity. :) Chamonix too.

Michael Alpert
17-Feb-2010, 08:39
It's nice to hear from people who don't have a clue, though they have a sense of humor. But does anyone actually have an answer to my question. I am surely not the only person who has encountered this problem.

Steve Hamley
17-Feb-2010, 08:50
Michael,

letting them air out outside in sunlight helps, but I don't know of anything that completely removes the odor. Also, not all of the Toyo brand holders have at least that strong a smell.

Songyun
17-Feb-2010, 09:37
maybe, wrap it with a box of baking soda? I once bought some film stored in a smoking environment , put them in a plastic bag with baking soda for a few days. now the smell is almost gone.

Sal Santamaura
17-Feb-2010, 09:52
It's nice to hear from people who don't have a clue, though they have a sense of humor. But does anyone actually have an answer to my question. I am surely not the only person who has encountered this problem.No, you're not. And my reply, while the smiley indicates humor, is from someone who does have a clue. Please see this thread

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=8417&highlight=reeking

to understand why, in my opinion, the only solution is using other film holder brands (or older Toyos).

Toyon
17-Feb-2010, 10:01
Airing them out is the only real solution. The aromatic compounds used have something like a vaporization half-life. At this point, mine only smell if you put your nose right up to them. Even so, I like Toyo holders best.

Sal Santamaura
17-Feb-2010, 10:06
Airing them out is the only real solution. The aromatic compounds used have something like a vaporization half-life...Three years into my experiment, the two 4x5 holders haven't exhibited much stench reduction. A generous estimate might be five years for half-life.

Michael Alpert
17-Feb-2010, 14:46
No, you're not. And my reply, while the smiley indicates humor, is from someone who does have a clue. Please see this thread

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=8417&highlight=reeking

to understand why, in my opinion, the only solution is using other film holder brands (or older Toyos).

Sal,

Thank you for the link. Okay, you have more than a clue. But no one on the previous thread or on this thread has suggested a solvent that might take care of the problem. If fact, no one seems to know what the odor is. Photography is challenging enough without absurdities like this one. It is obvious that just hoping that the odor will go away does not help. Once it is warm enough to work outdoors, I may try washing the holders with various solvents to see if I can make some headway without destroying too many brain cells. If something works, I'll post the results.

r.e.
17-Feb-2010, 15:22
In the previous thread, someone suggested that it is out-gassing. If you do a search for that word, and the word plastics, you will find that you are not the first person to experience this. There seem to be a lot of suggestions out there for how to deal with it; whether any of them works is another matter. If it is out-gassing, it isn't obvious how a solvent will help.

One suggestion that comes up is to heat the plastic (put it in the sun, use a hair dryer, etc.), presumably on the theory that this will promote the escape of the gas. Maybe :)

Dirk Rösler
17-Feb-2010, 21:41
Air them first and see. They're the best holders there is (some say), so it's worth it.

JRFrench
17-Feb-2010, 22:26
What about baking them at a lowish (60degC?) temperature to help speed up the out gassing. Might need to find an oven someone doesn't care about too much tho, like a rental property :)

I had some plastic parts I had painted and the paint just wouldn't go off, stayed tacky (standard enamel spray can) so I put them in the oven at around 60deg for about 8 hours and the paint went dry as a bone.

Sal Santamaura
18-Feb-2010, 08:06
What about baking them at a lowish (60degC?) temperature to help speed up the out gassing...One aspect of Toyo holders that's better than the competition is how precisely they maintain film plane location, i.e. T-depth. I suspect placing these plastic items in an oven might put that precision in jeopardy. :)

John Schneider
18-Feb-2010, 08:44
What about baking them at a lowish (60degC?) temperature to help speed up the out gassing. Might need to find an oven someone doesn't care about too much tho, like a rental property :)

That will work in theory, but the temperature control and distribution on a household oven is pretty terrible -- fine for baking a cake but not good enough for heating a thermoplastic to near its softening point. I tried this once and in some areas of the oven the plastic softened and deformed. If you have access to an industrial oven with good temp. control and a fan for even heat distribution this should work.

This involves another piece of industrial equipment, but I'd prefer using a vacuum oven or another setup to pull a decent vacuum at room to slightly elevated (40-50C) temperatures. But be aware that any offgassed material will likely be flammable.

Steve Hamley
18-Feb-2010, 08:46
O.K. folks,

There are two approaches to problem solving; 1) figuring it out (or trying to) and proceeding accordingly, or 2) doing what's easy and seeing if that helps.

I was just loading some 8x10 Toyos, and it seemed to me the odor was more pronounced on the darkslide. So I'm going to get one and unload it, let them air out in different locations, and see if the body of the holder continues to smell or if it is the darkslide, or both. Easy enough.

How about someone else or two trying the same thing and we'll compare results.

Cheers, Steve

PS I'm with Sal about the oven. Better to sell them to me at a discount and buy some new Fidelitys or Liscos.

Robert Hughes
18-Feb-2010, 10:32
Reminds me of my teenage years. I had an Allman Bros record with a warp, and thought I could straighten it out by warming it in the oven a few minutes. Next thing I knew, it looked like a scallop clam shell! And smelled like last night's stew...

Drew Wiley
18-Feb-2010, 12:26
Outgassing would be the case only if the darkslides are vinyl rather than ABS. At one
point the switch was made because vinyl is less brittle (at least as long as the plasticizer are still there!). Never had a problem with this because I keep my holders
well insulated from heat, and probably also because I coat my slides with an antistatic
solution. Static control and vinyl outgassing are unrelated, of course, but there probably some extra ingredient which tend to seal the plastic.

shinjin
11-Mar-2010, 20:41
If it's outgassing you might try putting it in a vacuum, instead of an oven, to accelerate the process. You'd have to come up with some kind of air-tight chamber, but a venturi pump driven by an air compressor would produce a useful amount of vacuum. I have a couple of Toyo holders that don't seem to have the problem, so I can't evaluate if it would be worth the trouble to try to de-stenchify them.