ND grad filters

[welly]

Hi chaps,

I use the Lee filter system, which I've done for some time, previously with 35mm/DSLR. I thought I'd give it a whirl with my 4x5 and see how I fare with it. To be honest, I found it pretty difficult to line up the graduated line - I was using a 0.6ND hard transition filter and was trying to align it with the horizon on the following shot. Clearly, I didn't get it quite right.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2787/4347654500_044d08b6ca.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/alastairmoore/4347654500/)

Does anyone have any advice, tips or suggestions on how I can work better with grad filters? I found it quite easy with my old DSLR, the grad line was always quite clear. Shame about the VPL on this shot because I was quite pleased with it otherwise!

[Eric James]

Are you stopping down (beyond your shooting aperture) prior to positioning the filter? It might take a while for your eyes to adjust under the dark cloth but the transition should be very apparent - a 2-stop LEE hard should not be a problem. Another trick is to move the filter wildly/excessively up and down - this helps me to see the transition.

I realize that your filter for this shot is ~2cm high and leaning to the right, but the horizon might be brighter than the sky above - Singh Ray addresses this problem with the Daryl Benson line of GNDs.

I have some difficulty judging whether or not I have positioned a filter level when I'm behind the camera. I often have to resort to going stepping around to make this judgement, and then reassess the filters position from beneath the cloth.

[VictoriaPerelet]

I do not know what filter system you are using, but if it's one with several slots you can always align bottom of 2nd darker filter with ND line - this way you'll see definite line on GG. Do not forget to remove 2nd filter before you click:)

Also doing test exposure on instant film never hurts.

[vinny]

do a search here for this topic. it was discussed recently in detail. I won't go into detail here but get some black card stock and small binder clips. Cut the stock to the length and clip to filter. there easy line to work with.

[Stephen Willard]

It has been a long time since I used GND filters. Working with color negative film affords me around 14 stops of light. If you can see it, then I can shoot it without GND filters. I had around ten Lee 4x6 resin GND filters and sold them all with no regret.

That said, what I did was simply slide a 4x6 piece of mat board that is white on one side and black on the other side and had the same thickness as a filter into one of the inner sleeves of the LEE filter holder. The black side should be facing the lens while the white side is facing outward. I then adjusted the bottom of mat board where I wanted the braking line for the GND to be. The upper part of the image is covered by the mat board while the lower part is uncovered where you do not want to hold back light. All of this is very easy to see through the ground glass of your camera.

Once that is done, you can simply slide GND down in front of the 4x6 mat board until it lines up with the bottom of the mat board. The white side of the mat board will allow you to easily see and align the GND to the bottom of the mat board. Now remove the mat board from the holder and you are ready to shoot with the GND properly aligned. With practice it just take a few minutes to get it right every time.

You can mark a small break line on the sides of each GND filter that just barely extends into interior of the filter using a blue Sharpie fine point pen. The break line is a subjective point between where the dark and clear gradations occur and will further aid you in aligning the GND with the bottom of the 4x6 mat board. I also coated the 4x6 mat board with a map water proofing liquid and installed a tiny grommet in the upper corner so I could put a long lanyard through it to hang around my neck allowing me to grab it in an instance.

Hope this helps....

[welly]

do a search here for this topic. it was discussed recently in detail. I won't go into detail here but get some black card stock and small binder clips. Cut the stock to the length and clip to filter. there easy line to work with.

That's a great tip. I'm going to try it out! Cheers!

[Lachlan 717]

do a search here for this topic. it was discussed recently in detail. I won't go into detail here but get some black card stock and small binder clips. Cut the stock to the length and clip to filter. there easy line to work with.

You don't even need to use anything this sophisicated. Just place the card's base on the transition point and fold the top over the top of the filter. No clips needed (and potential scratches avoided...)

But you're right - search the forum for more options.

[dave_whatever]

I must admin even using wide lenses stopped down to f/32, with a polariser, I've never had a problem using Lee Hard Grads, even the 1-stop. Just try moving it up and down a bit so you can see the graduation a bit more clearly.

If you really are stuck, I believe Lee do make even harder transition filters to order.

[bvstaples]

I use a index card stock. It's 100mmx125mm. I roll the card gently to give it a little curve (so it stays in the holder) slide it into the holder and while looking at the GG move it into position. It makes it quite obvious where the line of demarcation is. I then replace the card with the filter, position the "center" of the gradiated transition on the place where the card is. Cost me 2.8 cents (1.4 cents per card, I mangled my first attempt).

Brian

[Greg Miller]

This type of scene isn't the best for using a GND because the reflections of the sky off the water will also be very bright. If you bring down the luminosity of just the sky, then the water reflections will be brighter than the sky, which defies the laws of physics and isn't very natural looking.

But to answer your question, I find that jiggling the filter up and down will make the transition line quite obvious. And you do need to do that with the lens stopped down to the actual aperture you will be shooting at.

[welly]

This type of scene isn't the best for using a GND because the reflections of the sky off the water will also be very bright. If you bring down the luminosity of just the sky, then the water reflections will be brighter than the sky, which defies the laws of physics and isn't very natural looking.


That's a fair point. I should go and look at some more landscape photos of this ilk and see how other people are handling this kind of shot.

[Greg Miller]

This situation calls for film that has an exposure latitude wider than the full dynamic range of the scene. Using color negative film or a less contrasty transparency film (not always possible to have a transparency film with enough dynamic range) is best. Or shoot 2 exposures, one for highlights and one for shadows, and blend in Photoshop if that fits your sensibilities.


But FWIW, I don't see that you filter positioning was at fault here. What I see is a sky along the horizon was much brighter than the low altitude cloud band (which wasn't receiving any direct sunlight). Both the bright sky and the darker cloud band were darkened by 2 stops. So if you think the sky just above the horizon is too bright, then you needed more ND. But that would have darkened the cloud band even more.

If you look at other photos like this, you might also want to notice the horizon line positioning to see if you like the 50/50 sky/land split or not. Some people do, but some find that to be a very static composition. It mostly comes down to personal preference, so it comes down to something that is good to have thought about in advance.

[Atul Mohidekar]

Here is a simple tip: Use a sticky on the ND filter to locate the correct transition position.


// Atul

[anchored]

Just a few comments, mainly on other comments:

a) A very helpful hint about marking transition lines on the edge of grads... will have to put this to use, although I've never really had too much in the way of issues placing my filters. In certain light I've found seeing the grad in the field can be tricky at times... such lines should be an excellent guide for placing filters

b) Not too sure how well I like the idea of using sticky notes on filter surfaces... I've never tried this but would be afraid of marring fragile filter surfaces.

c) I mainly use Lee filters, but did replace their hard grads with HiTechs... the transition on the HiTechs are a bit softer than Lee's, and doesn't show delineation quite as harsh. But then again, I still have more of a tendency to lean towards soft grads, even when shooting a scene such as that posted.

[robertmgray]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=57522&highlight=grad

People contributed their methods in this thread as well.

[h2oman]

But FWIW, I don't see that you filter positioning was at fault here. What I see is a sky along the horizon was much brighter than the low altitude cloud band (which wasn't receiving any direct sunlight). Both the bright sky and the darker cloud band were darkened by 2 stops. So if you think the sky just above the horizon is too bright, then you needed more ND. But that would have darkened the cloud band even more.



If you agree that this was the problem, I believe Singh-Ray makes something they call a reverse grad or something. It is graduated from clear to fairly dark, they graduates back to lighter toward the top. I've seen some digital shots using them that were obvious candidates because of that really bright horizon line.

[Greg Miller]

If you agree that this was the problem, I believe Singh-Ray makes something they call a reverse grad or something. It is graduated from clear to fairly dark, they graduates back to lighter toward the top. I've seen some digital shots using them that were obvious candidates because of that really bright horizon line.

This is true. But I still think that a GND is not the right approach to this type of scene because of the reflection in the water below the horizon line. The highlights and the shadows are not distrubited within the scene in a way that a GND can effectively be used.

[vinny]

You don't even need to use anything this sophisicated. Just place the card's base on the transition point and fold the top over the top of the filter. No clips needed (and potential scratches avoided...)

But you're right - search the forum for more options.

tried that but where I shoot there's a thing called wind. No scratches with a padded clip. No guesswork.