C-41, 8x10", low output: Equipment recommendations please!

[Michael Nagl]

Dear Colleagues,

I guess I will have to develop my film myself. That´s about one or two hundred 8x10" color negatives per year. Can you please recommend me the right type of equipment and chemistry for the job? I want high quality - none of the strange cloudy variations in density (like artificial clouds) the negs from the labs I´ve tried were suffering from, and archival stability is a must. Still, as always, the less I´ll have to spent the better.

Thank you!
Michael

[JRFrench]

I believe archival stability is a bit moot with c-41 films, as the dyes aren't all that stable.

Anyhoo, your best bet is probably going to be a Jobo setup with the appropriate drums, and their temperature controlled water bath setup, someone will be able to provide product numbers Im sure.

If you don't want to spend the several hundred to set that up there are other options, such as the BTZS Tubes, or using similar tubes like mailer tubes or welder lead tubes according to others on here.

As for chemistry I use the Tetenal C-41 5L kit which seems good (easy to mix up 500mls amounts), although it has a combined Bleach/Fix which isn't considered ideal (I believe it goes off quicker than a seperate Bleach and Fixer.) Two of those kits would probably do you well, and would allow you to mix fresh chemistry every couple of weeks to keep your results consistent.

Each litre of chems is specced to develop 12 rolls of 135 and stay within spec. This is like 48 sheets of 4x5, or 12 sheets of 8x10. In many peoples experience they will do more than this, although it may require lengthening development and blix times.

If you can get them the Kodak Flexicolour chemicals can be a cheaper option I believe.

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

8x10" color negative (C-41) in a JOBO is a kind of Russian roulette. The first developer takes 3min 15 sec so it is very difficult to develop evenly. I tried to lower the temperature and use presoak but sill lost to many of the expensive sheets.
There are reliable labs like PIXELGRAIN in Berlin and HSL in Dussledorf and probably somein Vienna that process C-41 sheets and thus save you expensive 8x10 sheets. The processing cost close to 6 Euro but the unevenly developed and useless sheet
costs the same.

[Michael Nagl]

Well Gudmundur, if it was only the sheets - but I had quite a few pictures ruined by those Vienna labs; if any of you should ever happen to be in Vienna: BEWARE! PixelGrain was better, while not perfect. Guess I´ll try that Düsseldorf lab, Düsseldorf sounds good (Gursky&Co must have a decent lab).
Thanks!

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

That is the lab Grieger recommends for film processing, since they stopped..

http://www.hsldigital.de/

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

Olaf Otto Becker is a German photographer that uses an 8x10 color neg and photographs landscapes with a lot of critical sky. Ask him for a recommendation on a lab. An then tell us.

info@olafottobecker.de

[Larry Gebhardt]

I would go with a Jobo and the Expert drums. An ATL would be best for absolute repeatability, but the CPA and CPP will work just fine.

[Larry Gebhardt]

Kodak chemistry works very well, though I have started using Trebla bleach as getting the Kodak bleach is difficult. In Europe I think Fuji Hunt chemistry is common, and is identical to Kodak.

[Greg Blank]

I second Larry's statement about the Jobo ATL. They basically time all the steps exactly. I have used the "Jobo" powdered press kit which is not Tetenal but does produce good results when using an ATL and Jobo Expert drums, C41or E6 in these machines should be considered one shot . You may find a decent priced ATL on Ebay
Jobo has stopped producing them so used is the only option.


Dear Colleagues,

I guess I will have to develop my film myself. That´s about one or two hundred 8x10" color negatives per year. Can you please recommend me the right type of equipment and chemistry for the job? I want high quality - none of the strange cloudy variations in density (like artificial clouds) the negs from the labs I´ve tried were suffering from, and archival stability is a must. Still, as always, the less I´ll have to spent the better.

Thank you!
Michael

[Michael Nagl]

I hardly have the space for an ATL - and not the right kind of hot water supply.
I sent Mr. Becker an e-mail asking him for his advice, thank you for the idea Gudmundur.

[Michael Nagl]

Here´s what Mr. Becker told me in his prompt and friendly response: He says he knows the problem all too well, and so far he has not found any lab that was able to solve it. "Bribing them won´t help either, they just can´t do any better." But - and that´s what I´ve experienced, too - as the problem grows with the density of the negative, you must refrain from the bad habit of overexposing. - By the way, those pictures on his website http://www.olafottobecker.de/ are worth looking at!

[domaz]

Jobo system is best- it will save you lots of time and fussing over the alternatives (BTZS tubes etc..). BTZS tubes are great for B&W but just a pain for color where you have about double the things to think about (changing solutions/temperature etc etc..).

[Michael Nagl]

Reviving that old thread because I found the answer: HSL in Düsseldorf, Germany. (http://www.hsldigital.de/) Never before did I get such flawlessly processed negatives. Price is o.k., too. (Once again, it's time to say - Thanks Gudmundur!)

[tgtaylor]

I've been processing C-41 using Kodak chemistry with a Jobo CPA for over a year now with excellent results. Kodak has extensive C-41 chemistry and processing literature on their website for download - you can't go wrong using Kodak chemistry and a Jobo CPA/CPP. The Kodak Flexicolor III Bleach is discontinued although you can still find some around. Their one shot replacement, at $38US for 2.7 liters, is rather expensive but with your proposed volume will be insignificant. You can reuse the bleach once without replenishment with rotary processing so the $38 will get you 5.4 liters of bleach. The stop, developer and fix are cheap!

[domaz]

The hardest part about C-41 is getting good chemicals yourself. You should not use powdered kits or any kits that use BLIX- this is explained many times in detail by a retired Kodak engineer over at APUG. So that means you need to get Kodak chemicals and the Bleach in particular is very hard to obtain in small quantities. Photographer Formulary is now selling a 1 Liter C-41 kit made from Kodak chems- that is probably a good way to start.