Anyone use 35mm in conjunction with LF?

[Mike Anderson]

(Another new guy question. I've yet to shoot a single shot in LF - waiting on pieces for my camera - and may be overthinking things here.)

I was thinking of using a 35mm camera along with a 4x5, loaded with the same (B&W) film and an equivalent lens (28mm on the small camera, 90 on the 4x5) and filter. Then whatever I shoot with the 4x5, take the same shot with the 35mm with the same EV.

Then develop the 35mm film first, examine it and maybe adjust the development of the 4x5 film. (I know to be aware of how reciprocity will effect things given that the LF may have longer exposures.)

Does this make any sense?

Or should I quit goofing off, get a light meter and learn the zone system?

...Mike

[bobwysiwyg]

For what it may be worth (possibly very little ;) ) I would be inclined to go get a meter and start shooting.. and learning that way.

[Preston]

"Or should I quit goofing off, get a light meter and learn the zone system?

That's the ticket, Mike. At least that's the way I would approach it if I was just getting started in LF. You've got a learning hill to climb, so it's best, I think, to keep things as simple as possible.

--P

[Drew Wiley]

Preston, with all due respect (one Mother Lode hillbilly to another) - I think the best
way to learn how to climb hills is just to start climbing them. Leave the small camera
at home. It has a different perspective ratio anyway. Just get in there with the view
camera and start learning from the school of hard knocks. Forget the training wheels.

[Preston]

I think we're on the same page, Drew. My meaning was for Mike to just get going, and learn by doing.

--Preston

[sidmac]

I don't use my 35mm cameras anymore but I do sometimes use my Digital SLR for an instant proof shot.

[Chris Strobel]

I usually shoot 2 sheets.Then adjust the second in development in case I screwed up the first :D

[BetterSense]

I've been known to take the same shot with a MF or 35mm camera, just in case. It's come in handy before when the LF suffered some tragedy.

[Vick Vickery]

I use both 35mm and 6x6 in conjunction with my 4x5, but not for testing purposes. I often shoot the main architectural shots with the 4x5, both exterior and interior, and use either the 35mm or 6x6 for detail shots, especially when items I want to shoot are in odd, hard to reach locations like details of the top of a Corinthiam collumn, mouldings, etc. I most often use a hand-held meter with all of the cameras.

[Wayne Crider]

I'm inclined not to carry anymore then I have to unless working out of a trunk.

[Merg Ross]

I would suggest that you put your full effort into learning and mastering 4x5. 35mm introduced into the learning process will be a major distraction, not only in a technical sense but also visually. The two formats are so dissimilar, as will be the films and perspective, that to employ both will inhibit your mastery of the view camera. Work exclusively with the 4x5, and learn from your mistakes.

[Ed Richards]

Get a Fuji instant pack film back, some packs of instant film, and a meter, and by the time you go through a few boxes, you will know what you are doing. Saves a huge amount of time and grief.:-)

[Gordon Moat]

I use to carry one Nikon SLR body and a couple lens, but only as back-up for the 4x5. Since mid 2009, I carry a Bronica RF645 with the 65mm lens as back-up. I might add the Bronica 45mm lens, since I have room in the bag. When weight is a concern, I leave my Linhof rollfilm holder out of the bag, or I skip on taking an Instant film holder; though it depends upon the shoot; some ADs want to see a Polaroid. I very much feel that if you are learning, then an Instant film back is a great tool. After a while you get use to what your meter is telling you, and you learn the films you normally use, then the Instant film test shot is less important.

The idea of back-up gear for commercial shoots is very important. One extra lens can be back-up for another, but you have to consider if something went wrong with your 4x5. In such a situation, it can help to carry an extra camera body.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[Scott Knowles]

Or should I quit goofing off, get a light meter and learn the zone system?

The zone system only really works if you develop your own B&W film or give the lab special (extra costs) developing instructions. Otherwise, it's only useful information for the exposure and light range for the film. I'm one who finds the optimium exposure and shoots (ok, not technically the best but the results almost always works for me).

I shoot 35mm digital with 4x5 and occasionally 35mm (same) film. I use a light meter for the exposure and light range and the DSLR for the immediate view of the scene. The digital view also gives me the comparison later.

And yes, get a light meter.

[IanG]

Back in the 80's and early 90's I used a Leica M3 alongside my 5x4, but I've only exhibited 3 of the images from a few hundred films, and realised that the main use of the Leica was as a visual diary.

Now I prefer to use a Digital camera instead for that purpose.

Ian

[Robert Hughes]

I usually shoot 2 sheets.Then adjust the second in development in case I screwed up the first :D+1
Of course, get a lightmeter. And learn the Sunny 16 rule.

[cjbroadbent]

I never used to set up the camera until the subject and lighting were ready. Now I've recently got into the bad habit of shooting first with a Leica and Photoshopping until it looks good then making corrections to the light, the set and the proposed development times.
The last thing is the real camera and two sheets of film.
On the web, the Leica shots look better than 8x10.

[Mike Anderson]

It looks like we have a consensus: leave the small camera at home. I wanted to develop the 35mm film first to see if the development of the 4x5 shot should be adjusted, but I see having read a tutorial on this site the recommended practice is to take 2 of the same shot with the LF camera, develop one, examine, and if needed adjust development of 2nd. Makes sense.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

...Mike

[Ivan J. Eberle]

I wouldn't be so quick to say it's unanimous, it's just a subject around which flame wars can be (and have been) started here.

Since Polas are no longer reasonable, many including myself use a DSLR with spot or manual metering to make a "digiroid". This is particularly useful when shooting color transparency film as it is much more expensive and less forgiving of exposure errors.

My Nikons have arguably better metering than most every handheld meter yet devised and the couple of extra pounds in the daypack is inconsequential to me.
But if I shot B+W exclusively, I might never be inclined to carry anything more sophisticated than my 1948 G.E. DW58 Selenium cell meter.

[Ed Richards]

> Since Polas are no longer reasonable

But Fuji instant is.

[rguinter]

Mike: I frequently use 2 or more formats at the same time but as one of the other members mentioned above, only when working out of the minivan. I have a backpack with medium format panoramic cameras that often is my primary working equipment with either the 4x5 or my 35mm film gear as the alternate.

Tonight my primary working equipment was the 4x5 as I have just gotten a new lens and several batches of new and vintage films in 4x5 that I am trying out. My secondary equipment was my Fuji 680 MF camera with 65 mm lens side by side with the 4x5.

Most of the time my 35mm stuff stays at home but there are occasions when it is the tool of choice. Examples would be macro or super long lens shots, i.e., 1000 mm.

I'll risk the wrath of the membership here and attach a couple 35mm shots that simply could not be done easily (or at all) with any other equipment that I have.

Although overall my preference is for larger pieces of film so I can get the most resolution.

Hope some of this discussion helps a bit.

Cheers. Bob G.

[Filmnut]

I do sometimes carry a 35mm rangefinder, loaded with the same or similar B&W film to do some extra, or back up shots for my 4X5, which I find useful at times.
Another poster noted about using his Nikon for the light metering ability. I have done the same thing, but only when working close to my vehicle, the rangefinder is light enough though that I will backpack with it as well as the 4X5, but I don't usually take the Nikon stuff along with the 4X5.
The downside, other than having too much stuff to carry, is that it distracts me from concentrating on the 4X5. It is a different discipline, and requires proper attention to get the most out of it. I also do wildlife photography, and one often can find interesting wildlife in the same areas as I may do large format, but I find that I can't do both adequately well.
Keith

[Frank Petronio]

35mm film stock really doesn't compare to large format film stock, even if it is the same kind, it has a higher base density and sometimes other variations, and the tonal range is compressed with smaller formats. I wouldn't expect a development test to be of much reliable value. However, if you do not own a meter, a 35mm camera's meter can be used in a pinch.

But if you are metering that way, even using a fancy slr with a spot or matrix meter functions, it's still going to be kind of silly to be concerned with doing plus and minus "Zone System" processing. It ain't the Zone System, it's a quarter-ass attempt.

If you want to learn the Zone System, clean your darkroom and get set up to process several runs of sheet film consistently... then get a good spot meter, find a friend with a densitometer, and set yourself up for testing per whatever flavor of book you chose to follow.

Otherwise just meter away and go for a nice average development, just like shooting smaller formats. Especially with your first attempts, don't get too bogged down with absolute precision. Most of us don't either, after 20 years of doing it.

The digital camera Histogram and getting set up with Fuji Instant film (aka the new Polaroid) suggestions are also good learning tools that a lot of us still use years later and under professional circumstances. It's hard to beat instant film for knowing what you're going to get since you're using the same camera/lens/shutter that you will shoot the final film with.

FWIW I usually bring a 35mm point & shoot, a dslr, and a 4x5 because I shoot differently with each, I don't try to duplicate, and often the point & shoot makes the best picture.

[Thebes]

I've been carrying a little 35mm RF with me when I have the 4x5 in my backpack. I like it because I can make photos very quickly, a shot of a rest-area parking lot at sunset was the most recent. I would not have made that exposure with my 4x5 due to cost and setup time, I was cold and walking back to the car, but I liked how the light caught my eye and so spent a few pennies worth of film and a few seconds worth of time on it.

Having that little camera around all the time means I sometimes get great photos I would never have otherwise taken. But I use it differently from how I use my LF, its not a substitute but a different kind of tool. I try to have it handy all the time, not just when shooting.