Loupes and dark cloth [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

welly

21-Jan-2010, 18:54

Hey guys,

Can I get a recommendation for a loupe and dark cloth? I was out last night with my Sinar (finally!) and had a great old time with it. I'm just using a black tshirt which is sufficing but it's not incredibly dark under there! Also focusing was mostly fine although I think I definitely need a loupe so any recommendations for one of those would be appreciated.

It was pretty interesting taking out the camera for the first time, I had a number of people approach me and ask questions about the camera. People seemed intrigued about the bellows and said it looked like one of those "old school cameras". Personally, I think the Sinar F2 looks pretty futuristic and quite modern, despite the bellows! But I was getting attention the likes of which I never got with my old DSLR :)

Got a couple of shots back from the lab today, I'm going to scan them in later and will get them online for all to see. Am very, very pleased with the results. The subject matter isn't that interesting and the composition leaves a little to be desired. Aside from that, they look sharp, the colour from Velvia 100 is fab but most importantly the exposure is close to spot on, if just a touch dark.

Love this large format lark! :D

ki6mf

21-Jan-2010, 18:58

Find a 4X to 6X loupe. I got one from Calumet that doubles as a negative/slide viewer new it cost $70 +-. Dark cloth i use a large size film changing bag that cost under $30.00 this was less than the dark cloth that all range from $50-70

Mike1234

21-Jan-2010, 21:24

LightJacket and +6 reading glasses.

Frank Bunnik

21-Jan-2010, 22:33

I use a blackjacket darkcloath and a Leica lens from a 35mm slideprojecter that was lying in the attic as a loupe. Works very well.

rdenney

21-Jan-2010, 23:08

Back in the deeps of time I made a dark cloth by sewing black velour onto a commercial, but flimsy dark cloth. I used it for years. And hated it. Recently, I bought a Blackjacket from Lightworks. It uses an elastic band to hold what looks like an oversized shirt to the rear of the camera, providing "sleeve" holes for the arms. It was a real revelation to be able to use both hands on the camera and not worry about wind. Cheap at twice the price.

For years, I used a Horizon 4X loupe, though I have in the past done critical focusing with a cheapie Peak 10X loupe. The 10X is too much for most applications--all you see is the grain of the ground glass--but the 4X was too bulky, and too difficult to hold at the angle required for the ultrawides that I use. I would turn it backwards and make it work, but I have again had my eyes opened by a newer product. In this case, it is a Silvestri 6X tilting loupe. The tilting base allows one to place it firmly on the ground glass (the base is protected by soft stuff) and still point the loupe into the center of the lens. 4X was always not quite enough for really critical focusing for 6x12 and 4x5, but 6X is plenty of magnification without being too much.

Both of these are more expensive than home-found alternatives, but they have each contributed to a more pleasant experience. Looking at the ground glass used to be easier for me than it is now--in the 15 years I was absent from large-format photography, my eyes went to pot and now I have trifocals that cause no end of frustration. Having a dark cloth and loupe that each work with the least fiddling minimizes that irritation. The Maxwell screen is more useful than both, though. That is a more expensive accessory, however.

Rick "never regretting investments in ease of use" Denney

John Kasaian

22-Jan-2010, 00:22

A black sweat shirt will do in a pinch for a dark cloth. My bride sewed me a custom dark cloth for a fraction of the cost of a store-bought model. A 9x Agfa Loupe is a cheap solution but most people like lower power loupes. I currently use a Silvestri 6x but that is probably over kill (I happen to have an infatuation for things italian, so it works for me) nearly everyone I know prefers the Toyo loupe, which you can find used for not too much money. Another option is to use a linen tester.

Mark Stahlke

22-Jan-2010, 02:50

I like the Blackjacket (http://www.quietworks.com/frames_files/BJ_SPECIFICATIONS/BJ_NEW_HOME_FRAME_.htm) focusing cloth.

For a loupe, I've been happy with a Toyo 3.6x in the past. Alas, as my eyesight changes I find myself looking for a focusable loupe. The Toyo doesn't work well for me anymore. I'm interested in what other people will recommend in this thread.

Cheers,
Mark

LaurentB

22-Jan-2010, 03:09

I'm happy with a BTZS cloth, the tunnel shape is very convenient.

I use a Silvestri x4 loupe, and tried a x8 in the past. 8x as too much, 4 is great

Richard Wasserman

22-Jan-2010, 10:07

I'm a fan of Harrison darkcloths. I seem to be in the minority here, but I prefer a fairly large cloth. I tried BTZS and Blackjackets and never got along with them. I have used a Toyo loupe for years and have been very happy with it. Recently I put together a light-weight kit and needed a new loupe. I was in a miserly mood and didn't feel like paying for a new magnifier, so I borrowed the 50mm lens I use as a loupe in my darkroom to try. Guess what? It works great. So I bought a 50mm Nikon Series E lens (nice and light plastic construction) that had had a hard life for $9.00, tied a string around it so I can hang it around my neck, and tossed it in my bag.

SW Rick

22-Jan-2010, 10:14

Rick "never regretting investments in ease of use" Denney

Amen to that thought!

Ed Richards

22-Jan-2010, 10:39

I find the Silvestri 6x on the tilt base great if you use wide angle lenses with shift. Otherwise, that cheap Peak 4x is a good starting point.

Roger Thoms

22-Jan-2010, 10:42

I use a BTZS darkcloth and am quite happy with it. The Blackjacket looks nice too, arm holes might be helpful. I have actually been thinking of getting a Blackjacket for my Seneca WP.

As far a loupe, with my eye sight, it is important the the loupe can focused. I have Sima Focus 6x that works nicely. Wish I could find another one.

Roger

drew.saunders

22-Jan-2010, 10:42

I'm also a fan of the BTZS "tube" after using a standard cheap large cloth before that, and I really like the smaller size and ease of use.

For a loupe, I bit the bullet and got the Ebony handheld loupe (http://www.ebonycamera.com/acc.html#Handheld%20loupe), and it works better for me than the types that you press up against the GG. I have the Peak 10X "Sucking Lupe" and will occasionally use that, without the suction cup, for testing lenses or the like, but rarely in regular use.

tgtaylor

22-Jan-2010, 12:29

I have a Toyo darkcloth and loup that I bought new with my first LF camera - the Toyo 45CF. However the darkcloth is weighty and bulky for backpacking so instead of packing it for long trips, I'll use the Toyo Folding hood in conjunction with a Domkey wrap that I wrap the camera in to protect from scratches.

Thebes

22-Jan-2010, 12:55

I'm using a black t-shirt. It says "Land of the Free, some restrictions apply, void where prohibited by law" on it and I think I will keep using it but might line it with a second black t.

I like the arm holes. Years ago, I used weighted rectangles I'd made myself but the weights would sometimes fly around in the wind. I find even the single layer old t-shirt to work as well because it blocks light from below even though it lets in more through the fabric. The only other tube I'd tried, years ago, was a pita because it had no arm holes. Also, it is very light and packs down well, kind of small but I don't feel that it needs to be any larger.

My current loupe is an Adorama cheapo. I forget which one but a user review of it said it could be used it on a view camera and mine does indeed focus just enough to allow focus on the ground glass. Cheap cheap cheap, but I am amazed at the value, its not a great loupe but sure is better than cheap loupes were 10 years ago.

Eric Constantineau

22-Jan-2010, 13:59

For loupe, I use a cheap one from dealextreme :
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14893

For under 3$, it's even ok if I loose it !

It's good for what I do, a 210mm lens on a 4x5, I clearly see where the focus is. But for my 8x10 with a wide schneider 121mm, it's another thing, I think I'll tri other loupes on that website !

For dark cloth, I use black muslin, it's easy for me as I just bring some backdrops from my studio. But I would be willing to try something better, because when it winds, the cloth just wants to go away :-( perhaps some with weights would be better for me.

krzys

30-Jan-2010, 02:02

Thanks for the link to that loupe Eric

gregvds

9-Feb-2010, 06:09

I went for the Paramo DarkCloth. Very well made and conveniently thought by large format photographers on the move. the fabric used is breathable, lightweight, and the entire product is really refined. Made in England by Paramo, high quality stuff.

http://www.lightandland.co.uk/article.aspx?articleId=326&typeId=2&conId=8

Easy communication and transaction with LightandLand

As a loupe, I got a B.I.G. 5x loupe, not bad, totally unknown, from my usual photo shop here in Brussels. The loupe is very well built, and has lower ring coming in glass and aluminium, for negs and prints inspection aswell. I would go for the small rodenstock 4x if I had to again for the eye relief and image quality is perfect.

Brian Ellis

9-Feb-2010, 07:30

BTZS hood/dark cloth (www.theviewcamerastore.com)

Peak 4x loupe with a square base to let you get into the edges and corners (if the corners aren't cut out) of your ground glass.

jeroldharter

9-Feb-2010, 11:15

I have used various models of each over the years. I used to prefer the BTZS focusing cloth until I used it in very warm and very cold weather. It does not breath at all so condensation is a big problem. Also, the elastic is not very adjustable so using it on multiple cameras of the same format can be problematic. Old fashioned focusing blankets are OK but they flop around too much and I don't like having to use weights in them to hold them down and I don't want to glue velcro to my camera.

In the end, I bought a Blackjacket hybrid model which is by far the best, though a bit bulky. I don't use the arm holes very often but they are handy in dim light when you really want the darkest view of the groundglass possible. Otherwise I just leave the bottom of the tube mostly open and put my hands in there. Its perimeter is very adjustable allowing use on multiple cameras and even multiple formats, e.g. using an 8x10 cloth on a 4x5 camera.

I have read about the Paramo cloth which is hard to find in the US. I think you have to buy it from England. As I recall it is a lightweight Gore-tex focusing cloth that is relatively expensive but very ultralight.

For loupes, I have tried several. The Toyo 3.6 loupe is nice but has no diopter adjustment for you vision. The Wista loupe is economical, still available new, and has diopter adjustment so I use that now. However, I have recently taken up 8x10 and I find that my near-sightedness is more effective than a loupe which seems more like a microscope applied to the ground glass. So I have been using a loupe sparingly. I have a lot of film to process so I hope I am right on that one.

seabird

9-Feb-2010, 14:07

lilmsmaggie

10-Feb-2010, 13:04

welly

10-Feb-2010, 13:38

For darkcloth I use a homemade jobbie: Basically a cone made of black cotton material with elastic at the "small" (camera) end and open at the "big" (where your head goes) end. The "big" end also has a split that makes it easier to get put over your head and get your arms inside the cone for focussing. Works well enough.

For loupe I use a Rodenstock 4x loupe with sliding collar. Only complaint is that the circular base doesn't let me get right into the corners of the ground glass. For me, 4x is about right for 4x5.

Cheers

Yeah, I went for a Rodenstock 4x loupe and know what you mean about the corners but aside from that, it's a decent enough tool. Have recently bought some cloth to make a dark cloth so when I get my grubby mitts on a sewing machine (or someone who can sew!), I'll get my DIY dark cloth stitched up.

Brian Ellis

10-Feb-2010, 19:48

I realize this is a LF forum but has anyone with a DSLR ever try, or know anyone who has a HoodLoupe from Hoodman corporation? http://www.hoodmanusa.com

It has a +-3 diopter and adjusts focus just like a binocular eye piece. It's on the expensive side, but it just might do the job considering it is designed to completely cover and view a DSLR LCD panel.

That would provide quite a bit of coverage on the GG. Not sure how it would work in practice. I'm still working on getting a camera :)

Just a thought.

I don't use one but I know several people who do and they like them a lot. I just use one of my old LF loupes, an 8x Peak with a square base. It doesn't cover the entire LCD screen but it allows me to see enough to be useful.

DuncanD

11-Feb-2010, 13:16

I use Harrison dark cloths - the larger the better. Just bought the largest size to supplement my small cloth. It also looks great as a super-man cape to impress small children. I've owned and used a BTZS but found it very uncomfortable due to eye glass friction, heat and, face fog.

Re loupes: I own several 4x, 7x, 8x and use them all on ground glass and/or light table. Aside from optical qualities (clarity, brightness, image distance, etc.) I find two most important practical points.

7x-8x is essential to me for fine focus of foreground. This only works because I trashed Fresnel screens and moved to fine ground glass without markings or lines. However, I find 4x is my max power for distant focus. At higher magnification the grain if the glass overwhelms, for example, radio towers on the horizon (a handy focus reference).

The second point is that to be useful on a ground glass camera back the loupe diameter at its camera facing end must be small enough to tuck closely into the glass corners to check their focus.

Matus Kalisky

12-Feb-2010, 05:45

I am a fairly happy user of a BTZS dark cloth. Compact and light - that's why I bought it in the first place. However they could use less aggressive velcro for the access from the bottom side (BTZS has no sleeves). I used just a black T-shirt before and once I got the BTZS - man, what a difference in comfort and usability - especially if the there is some wind.

For the loupe I am very happy with the Horizon 4x (5x5 cm base). Very clear image, cheap and large field of view.

gnuyork

18-Feb-2010, 08:33

I use the 7x Calumet loupe and my mother made me a dark cloth. It's black on one side and white on the other.

Ken Lee

18-Feb-2010, 08:44

"Peak 4x loupe with a square base to let you get into the edges and corners (if the corners aren't cut out) of your ground glass."

Is this it ? It also has a neck cord ?

My cheapo round one doesn't work near the edges, and wondered if there were such as thing as a square one. You've come to the rescue !

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/Peak4xLoupe.jpg

Andrew O'Neill

18-Feb-2010, 18:22

I've been using a BTZS focusing cloth for about 10 years now. It has served me well. The only thing that bugs me about it is in very cold temperatures, it stiffens up. The outer rubbery coating is starting to peel like mad. I like that coating because if it starts to rain or snow, you can use it to protect your camera.
Not sure what loupe I use. It's about 20 years old and the name has worn off. One that is a bit long is good as it keeps your warm face and breath away from the glass which will help reduce ground glass fogging...
I have been pondering with the idea of getting those strong glasses...

James Olson

18-Feb-2010, 19:44

I have had all types of darkcloths but I still like a black t shirt the best and use it
all the time.
jim

Hollis

18-Feb-2010, 22:07

I don't use a darkcloth much at all. Ill use the pop-up GG cover on my Wista and go from there. If I have to have some shade, Ill have an assistant hold up some black card, works best that way. As for the loupe, I need a new one, I have one of those crappy peak ones that has been dropped too many times and is out of whack.

Carsten Wolff

4-Mar-2010, 10:56

I made my darkcloth from black imitation leather (vinyl). Cheap, durable and stretchy. I had to back it with some white cotton, as it can get hot underneath, esp. in the tropics.
"Loupes" - I've got several; I can never decide which is best and they're always moving about. I either use that cheap round Agfa loupe that every photographics-shop seems to stock for film viewing; a rear cell off a 75mm Wolly CRT lens, an orphaned 135/3.5 Planar front cell, an unknown doublet from a casket set, a Fujinon 170mm process lens, a 10x microscope eye-piece, or a cheap plastic jeweller's 4x/10x loupe.
When I've forgotten all of them, I have credit card sized "clip-on nose" +2 diopter reading glasses ($2) in my wallet, or use any other handy lens cell.