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the beginner
8-Jan-2010, 19:08
hello all
as the title says i only have 100 to spend the less the better ;) as i am not a pro:(, the main use of it would be day time landscapes, and large group photos

i was thinking of 5x4 but i am confused:( the print size will be about 8x10 and bigger:cool:

i would buy from ebay but with that sort of product it is a bit dodgy

it does not need to be the lightest or the heavyest

i could assemble a kit one but they look more money

do they come with that curtian at the back? to look through


[B]the beginner[B]

Steve Hamley
8-Jan-2010, 19:45
100 pounds is about 160 US, so that's going to push it. Your only options seem to be 4x5 or 8x10 pinhole cameras, or check this thread:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/70021-fsu-large-format-looking-cheap-camera.html

You use an enlarger to make prints larger than the negative. The "curtain" is called a dark cloth and a black T-shirt will work.

To find out more, read up here:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

Cheers, Steve

John NYC
8-Jan-2010, 20:41
Also, keep in mind that film for 4x5 is expensive. 8x10 film is far more expensive. Developing costs are even worse, unless you are doing it yourself, in which case you just need to buy chemistry (and the proper equipment for a makeshift darkroom). You need to figure all this into your budget. Here are some $USD prices I know of:

Ilford FP4+ B&W 4x5 film - 25 sheets: $29.49
Ilford FP4+ B&W 8x10 film - 25 sheets: $96.99

Developing only for 4x5 B&W: $2.50 per sheet
Developing only for 8x10 B&W: $6.00 per sheet

B&W contact print from 8x10 negative: $9
RC B&W 8x10 enlargement from 4x5: $17.50; $13 per add'l

The point I am trying to make here is that the cost of the camera/lens ends up being the cheapest thing about large format that you will buy in the long run!

John NYC
8-Jan-2010, 20:46
So, say you go 8x10 for your camera and then you decide to shoot 25 negs of B&W and do contacts from all of them. Here is your breakdown from my prices above:

25 sheet film: 96.99
25 sheets developing: 150
25 contact prints: 225
Total cost: $471.99

Cost per finished print is a total of $18.88 each!

I am starting to question why I am doing this!!!

Here's what's really weird. If you do the same thing with 4x5 and get 8x10 enlargements, it's acutally more expensive: $529.40 total or $21.18 per print.

Shen45
8-Jan-2010, 21:16
I will just wait??

Shen45
8-Jan-2010, 21:26
Sorry but I couldn't wait. I just calculated the cost of my film, paper, developer, fixer etc to produce a finished 10x8 B&W print on a FB paper and it came to $4.55. That is based on 3 sheets of paper to get the final print. I added in the cost of some water and electricity as well. There are other manufacturers of film and paper other than Ilford and Kodak. My costs are based on Foma/Arista film and paper, D76 developer and BTZS tubes. The film and paper come to Australia from Freestyle so I have included freight.

John NYC
8-Jan-2010, 21:43
Sorry but I couldn't wait. I just calculated the cost of my film, paper, developer, fixer etc to produce a finished 10x8 B&W print on a FB paper and it came to $4.55. That is based on 3 sheets of paper to get the final print. I added in the cost of some water and electricity as well. There are other manufacturers of film and paper other than Ilford and Kodak. My costs are based on Foma/Arista film and paper, D76 developer and BTZS tubes. The film and paper come to Australia from Freestyle so I have included freight.

Yes! My quotes were based on lab processing exclusively. I'm not sure if a beginner is going to be doing their own developing and printing, so I quoted the minimum to start taking pictures and getting them printed by someone else.

If you are printing, be sure to amortize the cost of your printer. This seems to be missing from your calc?

John NYC
8-Jan-2010, 21:59
Let me give the OP a more realistic scenario:

Entry costs:
Camera ($300 used to $6,000+new)
Dark cloth ($10 used to $60)
Focussing loupe or magnifying glasses ($6-$200)
Lens($100 used to $3,000+?)
Meter($100 used to $800)
Scanner($500 used to $800+)
Printer($500 used to $3,000+)
Film Holders ($6 used or $160 new for six)
Fuji Instant film holder ($210)
Instant film ($30 per box, 10 sheets): $3.00 per sheet
B&W sheet film: roughly $2.50 per sheet

My scenario while I have been learning...
- Expose 30 frames instant film per month: total $90
- Expose roughly 10 sheets regular b&w film per month: $40
- Lab developing for 10 sheets: $60
- 3 contact prints per month: $27
- Cost of scanning = scanner cost/months in use

SteveKarr
8-Jan-2010, 23:43
...

SteveKarr
8-Jan-2010, 23:43
For $160 you can get a Rolleicord 120 camera from ebay & learn to shoot. You get 12 tries for the cost or one sheet of 8x10. PLUS the cameras fit your budget.

Iga
9-Jan-2010, 02:35
Hi ! You can get old grey Calumet 4x5 monorail for $80 - 100. Great camera to start with. $100 - 150 used 150mm lens. Black t-shirt, a pair of holders, Foma film... Yes, it could be cheap.
Igor.

the beginner
9-Jan-2010, 07:36
thanks for all you input:)

i have a kodak no.1a but dont think that will be good for lanscape use:(

i will have a look for the camera you said.



the beginner

the beginner
9-Jan-2010, 07:44
i have seen this one but looks to good to be true
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Calumet-4x5-Monorail-View-Camera_W0QQitemZ270511552625QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item3efbbeb871


the beginner

Joanna Carter
9-Jan-2010, 08:08
i have seen this one but looks to good to be true
1. The reserve price hasn't been met yet, that is just an early bid.

2. The camera is in the U.S.A., that means you will have to pay shipping (likely to be around 30), import duty (6,5%) VAT (17,5%) and customs collection fee (10-20)

Whereabouts are you in the UK? Have you thought of joining us in the UKLFPG (http://www.lf-photo.org.uk/forum) ?

the beginner
9-Jan-2010, 09:25
i will join and post the same question, i did not know if this was a uk or us forum:(



the beginner

ret wisner
9-Jan-2010, 10:18
foma 8x10 100 asa 65 euro (50 sheets)
developer rodinal 10 euro (200 sheets + dev)
fixer 5 euro for 1 litre
foma fibre 12x16 - 45 euro (50 sheets)
three trays 10 euro

thats as cheap as you can be in 8x10

Kirk Fry
9-Jan-2010, 16:31
Try to find a whole kit with a CC400 calumet (like the one in the picture). It is all the OTHER stuff that is expensive.
If you do a hybrid approach you can scan your B and W negatives and send the digital files off for printing at whatever size. I use Costco for prints. KFry

You can develop B and W in your very dark (black) bathroom in 5X7 pans very cheaply. KFry

DeBone75
10-Jan-2010, 08:02
Can you get in to the hobby for what you want to spend, almost. If you aren't in a big rush you can find a complete kit for what you are looking to spend. Sometimes even with the film, but be patient. As far as developing it will be about that much again if you want to enlarge. If you want to do just contacts then it will be about 1/2 or a 1/3. I bought a 5X7 Burke and James with lens holders and case plus a few odds and ends for $160.00. It is my every day user and I love it. I bought all my darkroom stuff except enlargers from a guy going out of business for about $120.00. This included enough raw chemicals to make what ever formulas I want for the rest of my life. Watch for auctions in your area. Like I said be patient. With so many people getting out of film there are good deals out there.

john collins
10-Jan-2010, 08:15
I'm with Steve. Would you consider using a rollfilm camera in place of the large format?
You will come out ahead in terms of cost - there is a learning curve to this...

John NYC
10-Jan-2010, 11:52
I certainly don't want the OP to take my earlier comments about costs as negative or discouraging. I definitely think if you have the urge to try large format, you should. It is frustratingly wonderful. It's just that to do it well, you will find out it is a bit of a money pit compared to buying an old medium format roll film camera as some have suggested. Best to know that going in. I didn't really do the calcs beforehand myself.

venchka
11-Jan-2010, 10:48
For $160 you can get a Rolleicord 120 camera from ebay & learn to shoot. You get 12 tries for the cost or one sheet of 8x10. PLUS the cameras fit your budget.

Add Minolta Autocord or Yashicamat to that list. Possibly for less money as well.

John NYC
11-Jan-2010, 17:15
Add Minolta Autocord or Yashicamat to that list. Possibly for less money as well.

Yes, for instance, I bought a YashicaMat 124 (not the G but who cares) for $80 on the bay last year. The meter even works!

sha_hong
16-Jan-2010, 09:17
LF photograph is like firing the cash..

John Kasaian
18-Jan-2010, 10:16
As others have mentioned, LF is like owning a horse. You can buy a cheap horse, but you still have to feed it and that is where the cash really disappears. But you can still play the game on a tight budget...shoot paper negatives or ortho film. Heck you can even build your own pinhole camera in any size format you desire to keep you going until a good deal on a LF camera presents it's self. It would be a great learning experience!

Robert Hughes
18-Jan-2010, 10:24
OTOH - if you're willing to DYI a bit, it's not so bad, even in 8x10. I built an 8x10 box camera in November for about $150 (including Wollensak Apo Raptar process lens off the Dreaded), and X-Ray film goes for about $.25/sheet in that size. I process the film in my bathroom using D-76 and rapid fixer, and contact print out to cyanotypes (maybe 10 cents a sheet when using the Bostick & Sullivan "old style" kits). And - voila! I've got 8x10 photos for cheap!:)