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View Full Version : Fitting a Maxwell screen to a Chamonix 045N-1



uniB
19-Dec-2009, 08:15
I know there's been some discussion on the problem of fitting a Maxwell screen on a Chamonix and the problem that the retaining clips won't accommodate the new cover glass. Should anyone be interested, I've posted a blog entry on my website outlining in detail, how I adjusted my retaining clips so the Maxwell screen fits perfectly. You can read it here:http://www.peaklandscapes.com/blog.php

I have to say the Maxwell screen has transformed the camera, it's soooo much brighter. I'm considering getting an even brighter HI-LUX Ultra Brilliant Matte 4.7 allowing me to move the regular Hi-Lux to my Wista.

Dav

dsim
19-Dec-2009, 08:19
Very helpful, thanks.

BarryS
19-Dec-2009, 09:13
Nice work--thanks for posting.

GPS
19-Dec-2009, 09:26
UniB,
how about the film registration - is the Maxwell screen identical in this regard as the original Chamonix gg?

uniB
19-Dec-2009, 09:35
UniB,
how about the film registration - is the Maxwell screen identical in this regard as the original Chamonix gg?

It doesn't effect film registration at all the ground glass fits exactly where the Chamonix GG was, so the focus surface is in exactly the same place.

GPS
19-Dec-2009, 09:43
It doesn't effect film registration at all the ground glass fits exactly where the Chamonix GG was, so the focus surface is in exactly the same place.

Only if in both cases the distance between the film surface and the grounded glass side is the same. You mean it is the case because you measured it?

uniB
19-Dec-2009, 10:00
Only if in both cases the distance between the film surface and the grounded glass side is the same. You mean it is the case because you measured it?

Yes the distance is the same the frosted side of the Chamonix GG faces the lens, this is removed and replaced by the Maxwell, the frosted side of which also faces the lens they sit in the same recess and the only thickness difference is behind the focus plane.

I measured everything with a digital caliper and the measurements are the same. I also checked that the recess was milled to the correct depth in the Chamonix and it was correct allowing the ground glass to be the same distance away as my Quickload holder with film.

Dav

GPS
19-Dec-2009, 10:12
Yes the distance is the same the frosted side of the Chamonix GG faces the lens, this is removed and replaced by the Maxwell, the frosted side of which also faces the lens they sit in the same recess and the only thickness difference is behind the focus plane.

...
Dav

A thickness difference is behind the focus plane - i.e. on the lens side? Otherwise (were it behind the focus plane on the viewer's side) we would have troubles...:)

uniB
19-Dec-2009, 10:18
A thickness difference is behind the focus plane - i.e. on the lens side? Otherwise (were it behind the focus plane on the viewer's side) we would have troubles...:)

Oh I'm confused now! :confused: It doesn't take much!

There is nothing betwee the ground glass surface and the lens. Behind the GG surface there's the Maxwell fresnel which is joined to the GG and the cover glass.

I guess the proof the pudding is in the eating - I've shot probably about 30 sheets since I fitted the Maxwell and haven't had any issues with focus.

SW Rick
19-Dec-2009, 10:28
Noting the "WE", how did this work on YOUR Chamonix?


A thickness difference is behind the focus plane - i.e. on the lens side? Otherwise (were it behind the focus plane on the viewer's side) we would have troubles...:)

BarryS
19-Dec-2009, 10:46
Someone jam the troll back in his hole!

GPS
19-Dec-2009, 10:49
Oh I'm confused now! :confused: It doesn't take much!

There is nothing betwee the ground glass surface and the lens. Behind the GG surface there's the Maxwell fresnel which is joined to the GG and the cover glass.

I guess the proof the pudding is in the eating - I've shot probably about 30 sheets since I fitted the Maxwell and haven't had any issues with focus.

Don't worry, we'll get to the bottom of it all...:)

Because you say the film registration is the same but there is a thickness difference between the 2 types of gg it means that the Maxwell flat piece glass covering the Fresnel (and the gg surface) is in fact thinner. The same distance must accommodate the thickness of the flat glass + that of the Fresnel. The fact that the flat piece glass is between the gg surface and the film is making the troubles.
And as the focus shift is app. 1/3 of the flat glass piece thickness - well, the focus shift is different in these cases too. You just don't know its amplitude yet...:(

That's why Maxwell insists to get also the camera to him when changing to his screens...
Forget the pudding, some Chamonix camera owners are not even capable to detect their focus imprecision on their cameras - which, of course, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The best you can do now is to send the camera to Maxwell and he will take care of it all.

timparkin
19-Dec-2009, 11:28
Because you say the film registration is the same but there is a thickness difference between the 2 types of gg it means that the Maxwell flat piece glass covering the Fresnel (and the gg surface) is in fact thinner. The same distance must accommodate the thickness of the flat glass + that of the Fresnel. The fact that the flat piece glass is between the gg surface and the film is making the troubles.
And as the focus shift is app. 1/3 of the flat glass piece thickness - well, the focus shift is different in these cases too. You just don't know its amplitude yet...:(

You do know that the glass is not between the film and the lens when the picture is taken? Combine this with the fact that there was nothing between the ground glass and the lens and there is now nothing between the maxwell ground surface and the lens. If the Chamonix ground glass surface was in the correct position to begin with (and if it wasn't they have some very serious issues) then what could possibly have changed?

Unless this is some new proximity effect working around silicon oxide based amorphous solids or some quantum spooky action at a distance I'm at a loss to understand your theory?

Tim

GPS
19-Dec-2009, 11:36
That you don't understand is correct. Try to read again what Unib and me said about the position and the thickness of the flat glass.

timparkin
19-Dec-2009, 11:53
That you don't understand is correct. Try to read again what Unib and me said about the position and the thickness of the flat glass.

Ah you really are a troll... OK

GPS
19-Dec-2009, 11:55
:) :) :)

Michael Rosenberg
19-Dec-2009, 12:29
I don't understand what GPS is saying either; he really does not understand placement of the gg in the Chamonix, and how the Maxwell fits in it's place.

I have fitted a Maxwell on my Chamonix with a plain glass cover. After making sure my loupe was focused correctly on the gg surface there is no problem. I did not bother to make any measurements, and my exposed/developed film shows this the placement is proper.

I have in fact found that the Chamonix Fresnel is as bright as Maxwell in the center, but has greater fall off in brightness in corners and edges with wide angle lenses. In fact, I am impressed with the quality of the Chamonix Fresnel and ground glass.

Mike

timparkin
19-Dec-2009, 12:32
..
I have in fact found that the Chamonix Fresnel is as bright as Maxwell in the center, but has greater fall off in brightness in corners and edges with wide angle lenses. In fact, I am impressed with the quality of the Chamonix Fresnel and ground glass.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I think the fresnel should be pretty close to being just plain plastic in the centre (i.e. there is no optical bending at the centre of a lens). From what I've seen the chamonix is pretty good though..

Tim

Sal Santamaura
19-Dec-2009, 12:39
Yes the distance is the same the frosted side of the Chamonix GG faces the lens, this is removed and replaced by the Maxwell, the frosted side of which also faces the lens they sit in the same recess...the recess was milled to the correct depth in the Chamonix and it was correct...An absolutely correct procedure. Your camera now places focus exactly where the emulsion sits in film holders. Don't let anyone make you confused or doubt your conclusion.


...That's why Maxwell insists to get also the camera to him when changing to his screens...Utterly untrue BS. I've purchased six screens from Bill Maxwell for various cameras and installed each of them myself. Perhaps he only encouraged those who obviously didn't know what they were talking about to send him their cameras.

I've been posting to this forum for a decade now. I understand the current software offers an "Ignore User" feature. GPS, you are more than a troll; you're the first poster who ever inspired me to use that feature. Right after making this post I'll be placing you on my "Ignore User" list. I encourage everyone else here to do the same.

Michael Rosenberg
19-Dec-2009, 12:41
Tim,

The fall off is about 2/3 a stop, so it is not much.

Dav,

Brilliant post on your blog. I may have to give it a try - but first would like to get some spare retainers.... My dremel is one of my most used tools on my shop bench.

I may end up buying some 1mm thick glass to replace the thicker protective glass.

Mike

Songyun
19-Dec-2009, 12:50
Right after making this post I'll be placing you on my "Ignore User" list. I encourage everyone else here to do the same.

Hey, that's cool feature. I just did that. Thanks for the telling me that.:)

SW Rick
19-Dec-2009, 13:03
Thanks for that reference to the Ignore User list- what a blessing! Santa doesn't have to stop at my house this week- I got it early. :)

Sal Santamaura
19-Dec-2009, 13:03
...Thanks for the telling me that.:)You're very welcome. Spread the word. :)

GPS
19-Dec-2009, 13:05
I don't understand what GPS is saying either; he really does not understand placement of the gg in the Chamonix, and how the Maxwell fits in it's place.

...
Mike

Didn't I put there the sign -:) ? Or was it too dry humour...;)

Brian Ellis
19-Dec-2009, 13:19
Don't worry, we'll get to the bottom of it all...:) . . . That's why Maxwell insists to get also the camera to him when changing to his screens...

I've used Maxwell screens on two cameras, a Linhof Technika V and a Master Technika. In neither case did Bill "insist" or even suggest that the cameras be sent to him for changing screens. And believe me, if he did that with people who didn't know what they were doing I would have been first on his list of those who should send their cameras to him. But he didn't say anything about sending the cameras to him. Both screens came with detailed instructions for making the change myself, which I did. When did he start insisting that the camera be sent to him?

Sal Santamaura
19-Dec-2009, 17:39
...When did he start insisting that the camera be sent to him?Never.

uniB
19-Dec-2009, 17:58
Never.

I must say in my email conversations with Bill he never insisted on anything and never suggested sending him cameras. As someone who's pretty knowledgeable when it comes to workshop matters I see no reason what-so-ever why I'd need to send my camera to him, after-all the principles of a large format camera are pretty straight forward as is evident from the majority of comments on this thread.

Brian Ellis
19-Dec-2009, 18:46
Never.

That's what I figured. I was just curious what GPS would have to say.

pocketfulladoubles
19-Dec-2009, 19:48
This is a simple issue. Bill will be happy to send you the screen for you to install. The GG sits at the same plane as the film. It works amazingly.

JON BUTLER
20-Dec-2009, 01:24
I broke the GG on one of my Chamonix cameras and fitted one off my Ebony, works
well but not that bright though more contrast and much easier to focus.
Now got two more Ebony screens on order.
JON

timparkin
20-Dec-2009, 02:28
Didn't I put there the sign -:) ? Or was it too dry humour...;)

Ah ..now I understand - you were purposefully hijacking someone else thread to contradict the information that they had worked hard on distributing to help other people and adding your own 'wrong' information whilst continually trying to confuse the issue as a prank.... ho ho ho... /me adds GPS to ignore list

Tim

Steve Hamley
20-Dec-2009, 03:02
The ignore list doesn't work on quotes.

Cheers, Steve

Sal Santamaura
20-Dec-2009, 09:19
The ignore list doesn't work on quotes...No, but Tim (who did that quoting) now has the offender on his Ignore List, so Tim won't be doing any more such quoting. :)


...me adds GPS to ignore list...

Brian Ellis
20-Dec-2009, 10:05
I don't understand what GPS is saying either; he really does not understand placement of the gg in the Chamonix, and how the Maxwell fits in it's place.

I have fitted a Maxwell on my Chamonix with a plain glass cover. After making sure my loupe was focused correctly on the gg surface there is no problem. I did not bother to make any measurements, and my exposed/developed film shows this the placement is proper.

I have in fact found that the Chamonix Fresnel is as bright as Maxwell in the center, but has greater fall off in brightness in corners and edges with wide angle lenses. In fact, I am impressed with the quality of the Chamonix Fresnel and ground glass.

Mike

A little OT but the difference you found between the Maxwell and Chamonix Fresnels is IMHO the big advantage of Maxwell screens over every other screen I've used (except the BosScreen, which had its own problems of a different kind). It isn't that the Maxwell is all that much brighter than other screens around the center. The difference I found is that the Maxwell screen remains quite bright into the edges and corners even with a fairly wide angle lens.

gevalia
20-Dec-2009, 10:35
A little OT but the difference you found between the Maxwell and Chamonix Fresnels is IMHO the big advantage of Maxwell screens over every other screen I've used (except the BosScreen, which had its own problems of a different kind). It isn't that the Maxwell is all that much brighter than other screens around the center. The difference I found is that the Maxwell screen remains quite bright into the edges and corners even with a fairly wide angle lens.

Brian,

I'll agree with you from my own experience. I bought GG from Bill last year for my Rollicord and (like you said) it is consistently bright center-to-corners. Shockingly better I might add. Give I have a few f9 lenses and work in low light, I just might pop for the Maxwell for my Chamonix come the new year.

Ron

Mike1234
20-Dec-2009, 11:21
I'm just curious. I've realizied that I'm a square peg trying very hard to fit into a round hole... meaning I'm socially inept. I try very hard but I just keep failing.

My curiousity is how many people have me on their ignore list and why exactly. This is just curousity on my part. And, yes I know if I'm on a person's ignore list they won't see this post but I'm hoping someone will quote this post so those people will see it and explain so a social idiot like me can understand.

What I really want to know is precisely why I'm on their "S" list... it's a self improvement thing.

I'm sorry if this is a bit of a hi-jack but it's related to the disdain shown here and so often for some members and I know I'm sometimes one of those members.

This is a true call for help.

Brian Ellis
20-Dec-2009, 11:23
That's what I figured. I was just curious what GPS would have to say.

That's odd, he hasn't said anything about his erroneous statement. Seems especially odd when he has so much to say about everything else. : - )

D. Bryant
20-Dec-2009, 11:45
I'm just curious. I've realizied that I'm a square peg trying very hard to fit into a round hole... meaning I'm socially inept. I try very hard but I just keep failing.

My curiousity is how many people have me on their ignore list and why exactly. This is just curousity on my part. And, yes I know if I'm on a person's ignore list they won't see this post but I'm hoping someone will quote this post so those people will see it and explain so a social idiot like me can understand.

What I really want to know is precisely why I'm on their "S" list... it's a self improvement thing.

I'm sorry if this is a bit of a hi-jack but it's related to the disdain shown here and so often for some members and I know I'm sometimes one of those members.

This is a true call for help.

I would suggest that you simply place your own account name on your own ignore list and all of these issues you've listed will be sorted out quickly. :)

GPS
20-Dec-2009, 12:05
I'm just curious. I've realizied that I'm a square peg trying very hard to fit into a round hole... meaning I'm socially inept. I try very hard but I just keep failing.

My curiousity is how many people have me on their ignore list and why exactly. This is just curousity on my part. And, yes I know if I'm on a person's ignore list they won't see this post but I'm hoping someone will quote this post so those people will see it and explain so a social idiot like me can understand.

What I really want to know is precisely why I'm on their "S" list... it's a self improvement thing.

I'm sorry if this is a bit of a hi-jack but it's related to the disdain shown here and so often for some members and I know I'm sometimes one of those members.

This is a true call for help.

Hi Mike1234,
you're on my enjoy list...:)
I never understood what kind of punishment and for whom it is if someone puts you on their ignore list but then what...
Personally, if I want to ignore somebody, I don't need a list for it.

Mike1234
20-Dec-2009, 12:38
I would suggest that you simply place your own account name on your own ignore list and all of these issues you've listed will be sorted out quickly. :)

If that's a joke thank you for that. :) If not, I'm too stoopid to comprehend. :o

Mike1234
20-Dec-2009, 12:48
Hi Mike1234,
you're on my enjoy list...:)
I never understood what kind of punishment and for whom it is if someone puts you on their ignore list but then what...
Personally, if I want to ignore somebody, I don't need a list for it.

GPS... I'm afraid we're both socially inept. Therefore, although I like you, I must ignore you in order to show some simblance of social elegance here. And in order to gain at least SOME acceptance I must say with some ferver, "F-YOU!!"

Okay... now does everyone else like me more now??? Oh please, please say you do!!

Umm.. I've been drinking heavily so please keep that in mind. :D FWIW, I'm accustomed to being disliked and I don't think it even hurts anymore... at least not after a pint of vodka. :rolleyes:

On second thought Kirk is probably going to ban me. I like you, Kirk. I'm sorry if I was too controversial.

rugenius
20-Dec-2009, 12:59
The Chamonix Fresnel situation is about beaten to death. The stock screen has worked satisfactorily for me so far, but I don't use a lens shorter than 150 mm at the moment...

All "great to know" info on Bill Maxwell's product, installation comments from the thread originator, etc,... keep on sharing please...

On the subject of Chamonix 045N screen intensifier; Everybody has a different perspective I guess. I'm thankful to have the forum resources in spite of an occasional rail of poorly constructed criticism. I can agree to disagree that it is a problem of such magnitude. ;)

gregvds
21-Dec-2009, 12:51
My Chamonix (less than a month old) came with the fresnel outside the GG, to my request, and protected behind a glass. All fits inside the normal back, the protection glass just flushing the wood nicely to use loupe smoothly on the edges of the pic if needed. I find the fresnel circles difficult to see, and the groundglass really bright. I use a 120 AS-L last model, and a Fujinon 210.

See you,

stealthman_1
22-Dec-2009, 22:44
That 'Ignore' feature works really well. In 13 years of posting on forums, this is the first time I've used it.:)