sinar electronic shutter question

[Discoman]

I am planning on getting one of the electronic shutters for my sinar, and i plan to use the computing module, light meter, and power supply or battery. is there a great difference between the digital shutter system with module 2 and sinarsix, compared to the expolux monitor, booster, and tricolor shutter?
is one easier to use, or more portable, or a bit sturdier? or are they both equally good?
I'm getting one of the mechanical shutters as well, but i do want the additional time options that the electronic ones offer.
please help?

[erie patsellis]

You'll likely find that there's little information about the electronic shutters, and I hope you never have to get it repaired (parts are mostly NLA)

From what I've been told by sinar/bron that unless it's something simple, when it breaks your SOL. The mechanical shutters just seem to keep going and going, however.

[Bjorn Nilsson]

The first generation electronic shutters were quite fragile and like computer parts very sensitive to static electricity. Many of those shutters spent a lot of time on the road back and forth to the Sinar workshops. I used one of these shutters with a Module 2 for a couple of years, without any big problems, but that was back in the 80ies. I've heard and read too many complaints to go back there again.
The second generation (i.e. Expolux ...) built on the experience gained from that first generation. Apart from a better user interface, they are less liable to break down on you. But please note that any of the electronical shutters are "studio only". I.e. don't mess around too much with them.
So do look for a Expolux version. While some sellers believe that they sell at e.g. 60% of the new price, don't pay too much for a complete system. There is very little demand for these shutters nowadays. (I'm not in the market for one, but if I'd want one I'd only offer "ridiculous" bids for it.) Also be aware of that these systems were intended for studio use, which quite possibly means very heavy use. But that could be e.g. 100.000 exposures without any exterior signs of any use at all. (Very much like a taxi car, only 2 years old but with 300K miles on it.)

Nowadays I use a Copal shutter for some of the old barrel lenses (like a Heliar 21 cm f/3.5 and some other oldies). I also use it with all the other lenses I got, instead of using their shutters. Thus I don't have to learn and compensate for each and every shutters individual performance. The Sinar/Copal shutter a good sturdy shutter which is well knowned for its reliability. I also use a Minolta IV with a Booster 1 spot meter stick attached to it. Manual instead of automated (with the Digishutters...), but I don't shoot large volumes anymore.

//Björn

[Dave Dawson]

"but i do want the additional time options that the electronic ones offer"

I would recommend a mechanical shutter and a stop watch for longer exposures:)

I've got two Sinar Copal shutters that work and an electronic that doesn't...Need I say more?:eek:

Cheers Dave

[Brian K]

I own several of the Sinar Copal shutters and a complete Expolux system which i bought in the 1990s ( yeah, I paid the full new price for it) The expolux is really a studio only system but offers incredible features when paired with the expolux monitor and probe. I never had ANY reliability issues. Be aware that there are different versions of the software module and you want the most recent version. Also remember that all of the lenses used on the Sinar shutters require DB or DB-M sinar boards.

The older sinar digital shutter was not known for it's reliability.

The Copal shutters are also really best used in the studio. While they are fairly robust they do break and if you are in the field then you have no shutter at all for any of your lenses. This is why I have 2 complete lens systems, one for in the studio mounted on Sinar DB boards, and another using individual shutters mounted on linhof boards which I can then use on my linhof or Sinars (with the sinar/linhof adapter board)

[Discoman]

I can find parts of all of these on epray and other places, the one part i have never found has been the expolux monitor.
that's why i'm considering both of the systems.
there is a digital shutter on ebay for $799, has accumulator, charger, cables.
been up there for over 2 months total.
but where would be a good place to find the expolux monitor?
it is the superior electronic system, so I might as well go for it.
along with the mechanical one for field work of course.

[Discoman]

found this document, here is the name:
Section03bLgFormatView.pdf
it's an old price/description list of sinar stuff

however, as i plan on turning my sinar to the e model, it takes special cables for the expolux, and i'm assuming it will only work with the expolux. go figure.
it does show the e model for sale too-wow is it strange looking.

and wow are sinar cables expensive.

[erie patsellis]

I guess your needs are different than mine, I prefer cost effective and reliable over supposed "superior" electronic solutions that are 2-5x the price. If I'm on location, I can't just tell a client that we'll reschedule in a month or so when I get the shutter repaired. I always bring backup lens boards with shutters mounted, regardless of how confident I am that my mechanical shutter won't fail (and so far, never has)

[Dave Dawson]

You can find the service manual for the mechanical Sinar shutter but I have never been able to find one for the electronic model:mad:

Cheers Dave

[Bjorn Nilsson]

You can find the service manual for the mechanical Sinar shutter but I have never been able to find one for the electronic model:mad:

Cheers Dave

The only content of a possible service manual would have been: Send it to Sinar Switzerland. End of service manual. Please don't quote me on that. ;) (It's possible that there was a US agency which were trained to do an overhaul, but at least the above is true for the european market.)

//Björn

[Dave Dawson]

I don't like 'climbing on the back' of threads started by others but I think another pair of shutter blades would fix my knackered electronic Sinar shutter, so if anyone has a dead one where the blades are ok...Please send me a PM.

If something is electronically timed from 1/500th-80 seconds, servo driven diaphram control, auto open/close seems too good to be true..........It usually is:eek:

Cheers Dave

[Dave Dawson]

Ditto :mad:


The only content of a possible service manual would have been: Send it to Sinar Switzerland. End of service manual. Please don't quote me on that. ;) (It's possible that there was a US agency which were trained to do an overhaul, but at least the above is true for the european market.)

//Björn

[Discoman]

You can find the service manual for the mechanical Sinar shutter but I have never been able to find one for the electronic model:mad:

Cheers Dave

i found one recently-it had both accumulators, three different mechanicals, module 2, expolux monitor, both electric shutters, etc.
basically all the shutters and associated tech.
ill try to find a link or at least its name

[Discoman]

I guess your needs are different than mine, I prefer cost effective and reliable over supposed "superior" electronic solutions that are 2-5x the price. If I'm on location, I can't just tell a client that we'll reschedule in a month or so when I get the shutter repaired. I always bring backup lens boards with shutters mounted, regardless of how confident I am that my mechanical shutter won't fail (and so far, never has)

there's my problem, and why i am only searching used- i work as an art photographer, not a paid person.
so any money is from selling pics
what little money there is lol.
ah well, it is starving artist for a reason, but i'm happy with what i do and i wouldnt want it any other way.
mainly stuff like still life, architecture, landscape, etc.

[Dave Dawson]

"ill try to find a link or at least its name"

That would be appreciated Discoman.

I've found everything but the electronic one

Cheers Dave

[Discoman]

found the file on my computer, its 130 pages and called Shutters.pdf
i think a google search for sinar shutter repair found it
also, butkus.org might have it, they have a bunch of old camera manuals.
is there a way i can post a document from my computer to the forum as a download?

[Discoman]

well, the file upload isn't working at the moment, i've sent a message to an admin.
srry about this
its called Shutters.pdf
i did not rename it, that's how it was.

[Discoman]

its also over 9000 kilobytes, so that's a nvm on uploading.
the best i can try to do is e-mail it to anyone interested, i can attach a couple megabytes to an e-mail.
send an e-mail to me using this address if interested
mesas-48490@mypacks.net
it may take me a while to get back to you, i don't always check my anon addresses. don't worry, e-mail me if you want it and i will try to get it to you asap.

[Armin Seeholzer]

I'm getting one of the mechanical shutters as well, but i do want the additional time options that the electronic ones offer.
please help?

This does'nt make sense to me!
For this reason I would not go this route, if you want be cheap forgett about the electronic one.
If you need shorter times buy 1 or 2 lenses with shutter and anyway a second Copal/ Sinar shutter as spare has to be with you!
With this you on the long run much cheaper then with the electronic one!

Just my 2cts. Armin

[Bjorn Nilsson]

...
If something is electronically timed from 1/500th-80 seconds, servo driven diaphram control, auto open/close seems too good to be true..........It usually is:eek:

Cheers Dave

Well, the Copal has 1/60th-8 sec, aperture control and auto open/close, so these features are indeed quite common in the Sinar world.
But OK, the electronic shutters can set the time in 1/3 increments. I.e. 2 intermediate steps beween each full stop. What was more interesting was the auto exposure compensation when doing long exposures, i.e. reciprocity factors for a number of films already pre-set. That plus the realtive ease of calculating the correct exposure in mixed light conditions (e.g. a flash lit interior with a sunlit exterior outside the window). All of this made it worthwhile for the busy professional. Just a pity that the quality of the electronics of the 80s and 90s wasn't up to par.
Knowing what I know now, I am content with the Copal shutter and a Booster 1 with a Minolta meter. I get just about the same features with just a little bit more effort. The bonus reads "reliability".
(I just realized that these are features which could be found in almost any decent 35mm camera from the 90s, not to mention digi... but again, they don't get the pleasure of looking at e.g. a perfectly exposed 8x10" chrome.)

//Björn

[Dave Dawson]

PM sent



its also over 9000 kilobytes, so that's a nvm on uploading.
the best i can try to do is e-mail it to anyone interested, i can attach a couple megabytes to an e-mail.
send an e-mail to me using this address if interested
mesas-48490@mypacks.net
it may take me a while to get back to you, i don't always check my anon addresses. don't worry, e-mail me if you want it and i will try to get it to you asap.

[Dave Dawson]

Believe it or not Bjorn...It's the mechanics that are faulty on my electronic Sinar shutter, but that's a long story:(

Cheers Dave

[Discoman]

the machanics look simple enough, its only tow metal discs for the shutter blades, any place with a CNC or laser cutter should be able to make them no problem.
mechanically, it's not a very complex part.

[Dave Dawson]

The shutter blades are a simple design...I'm not sure they are metal or a plastic composite. They do however have a spacer pad attached at both ends of the blades.

The blades are catapulted using a device like a sprung loaded hammer so any friction atall between blades or the casing will prevent the blade from reaching it's other 'home' position.

I probably haven't described it very well but if I could get the blades to travel without any friction, the shutter would work fine.

Cheers Dave




the machanics look simple enough, its only tow metal discs for the shutter blades, any place with a CNC or laser cutter should be able to make them no problem.
mechanically, it's not a very complex part.