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Bill_1856
10-Dec-2009, 19:59
Is there any reason to choose between Riteway and Fidelity CFHs? I have a bunch of both, all in apparent fine condition.

Vick Vickery
10-Dec-2009, 21:27
I've never found any real difference. I use both and both do fine.

tim o'brien
10-Dec-2009, 23:18
Is there any reason to choose between Riteway and Fidelity CFHs? I have a bunch of both, all in apparent fine condition.


The riteways are nothing but junk. Send them to me and I'll take care of them for you.

tim in san jose

tim o'brien
10-Dec-2009, 23:19
Is there any reason to choose between Riteway and Fidelity CFHs? I have a bunch of both, all in apparent fine condition.

The fidelitys are nothing but junk. Send them to me and I'll take care of them for you.

tim in san jose

Per Madsen
11-Dec-2009, 00:06
I can recommend Toyo holders instead. They are the best !

Toyon
11-Dec-2009, 08:54
The riteways are nothing but junk. Send them to me and I'll take care of them for you.

tim in san jose

Sorry Tim, this particular joke has expired from overuse.

Brian Ellis
11-Dec-2009, 09:57
I can recommend Toyo holders instead. They are the best !

In what way?

Per Madsen
11-Dec-2009, 10:02
In what way?

Better made and better film flatness.

I once had a pair of Fidelity holders, which was so sloppy manufactured, that
the darkslides slowly slid out by themselves, when the holder was turned upside down.

I have never had any problems with the Toyo holders.

Robert Hughes
11-Dec-2009, 10:13
Only terrorists use Fidelity holders. True patriots use Riteways.

Or the other way around - I can't remember.

BrianShaw
11-Dec-2009, 10:30
Better made and better film flatness.

I once had a pair of Fidelity holders, which was so sloppy manufactured, that
the darkslides slowly slid out by themselves, when the holder was turned upside down.


Interesting... and I don't doubt you, but I've never experienced either of those problems myself.

Jack Dahlgren
11-Dec-2009, 10:48
Whatever you do, don't use the Graflex ones. They get the light and dark side of the slide mixed up on occasion. I don't know how they manage to flip it around like that.

Mike1234
11-Dec-2009, 10:49
I can recommend Toyo holders instead. They are the best !


Better made and better film flatness.

I once had a pair of Fidelity holders, which was so sloppy manufactured, that
the darkslides slowly slid out by themselves, when the holder was turned upside down.

I have never had any problems with the Toyo holders.


Interesting... and I don't doubt you, but I've never experienced either of those problems myself.

Me neither and I've handled literally hundreds of film holders from dozens of maufacturers and from brand new to 100+ years old. I've never once experienced a failure like that. I've seen them abused (smashed) and dark slides cracked and broken and I've seen them water damaged but nothing like that. Is there something that leads you to the conclusion that this is a common Fidelity issue?

Bob Salomon
11-Dec-2009, 11:51
Me neither and I've handled literally hundreds of film holders from dozens of maufacturers and from brand new to 100+ years old. I've never once experienced a failure like that. I've seen them abused (smashed) and dark slides cracked and broken and I've seen them water damaged but nothing like that. Is there something that leads you to the conclusion that this is a common Fidelity issue?

Can't be a common issue since Fidelity, Lisco and Riteway were one in the same company and Fidelity and Lisco holders as well as older Riteway holders were all made from the same molds. Calumet owned the company that manufactured these holders.

Bob Salomon
11-Dec-2009, 11:52
Better made and better film flatness.

I once had a pair of Fidelity holders, which was so sloppy manufactured, that
the darkslides slowly slid out by themselves, when the holder was turned upside down.

I have never had any problems with the Toyo holders.

If they were truly sloppy the slides would have rushed out. Not slowly slide out.
:)

ki6mf
11-Dec-2009, 14:26
Once I had a pair of Riteway holders that were so bent the dark slides straightened them selves our just to get close to some film.

bobwysiwyg
11-Dec-2009, 14:30
I can recommend Toyo holders instead. They are the best !

Why? It's a serious question. They 'appear' quite similar in design, so I'm assuming it is a material issue?

Bob Salomon
11-Dec-2009, 14:43
Why? It's a serious question. They 'appear' quite similar in design, so I'm assuming it is a material issue?

If you really want the best, they were the Linhof Double Sheet Film Holders and the Linhof Glass Plate/Sheet Film Holders. But neither have been made for a very long time.

Bill_1856
11-Dec-2009, 18:17
I love my Linhof double sheet holders, and I'm not about to give them away with my Speed Graphic. I just asked the question to make sure that my friend who is getting it will get a set of good CFHs to use with it.

bobwysiwyg
11-Dec-2009, 18:52
Yes, but getting back to my question, what specifically makes these so much better than, say, Fidelity?

stealthman_1
11-Dec-2009, 18:58
I've got 10 Toyo 4x5 holders and 5, 8x10 holders that I have accumulated and it's obvious when you handle one that it is a higher quality holder than the other common plastic holders. Whether or not it is actually any more precise, I couldn't tell you. They are very expensive if you buy new at full price. 8x10 = $189 each IIRC.
The most obvious difference is the metal allen screws (two piece) that hold the front to the back. They have their own smell too, even used ones that are several years old, have the smell. So I guess you're paying for the new holder smell that lasts for years....:rolleyes: :p

John T
11-Dec-2009, 19:01
Appearance can be different than actual function. The Toyo holders seem to be built to a higher standard. While they stink something awful, they seem to hold the film a little flatter through multiple samples than the others. While my Riteway and Fidelity holders have worked just fine through the years, I seem to favor using the Toyo holders-especially with wide angle lenses.

Steve Hamley
11-Dec-2009, 19:01
The 8x10 Toyos are screwed together so I assume they're more easily rebuildable. The 8x10s also have a rail like side rails on the "handle" end of the holder. I almost went crazy trying to figure out why slightly bowed film wouldn't go in the holder. Remove the dark slide up to the end of the opening, press down very lightly in the center of the end of the film, and no problem. They're also extremely smooth. And heavy.

The 4x5 Toyos are riveted together, and I don't know if they have the upper rail - probably don't need it on 4x5 anyway. But they are extremely smooth also.

Some of the 8x10s also stink like phenolic (like a new circuit board) and need airing out. But other than that, they seem to be the same.

Cheers, Steve

bobwysiwyg
11-Dec-2009, 19:06
Steve/John,

Thanks, that's what I was looking for.

Lynn Jones
14-Dec-2009, 09:18
Lisco, Fidelity, and Riteway are now all made by the same company nd have been for at least 15 years, the former owner of Calumet. I can't remember Fred's last name but he also owned Cambo, which is why he discontinued the original Calumets. Riteway was originally from Grablex and originally were a bit off in film location, I think they are OK now. Lisco/Fidelity were always made by the same guy in the same factory, the film plane location was good. Fred bought L/F about 15 to 20 years ago.

Lynn

Bob McCarthy
14-Dec-2009, 09:25
The old Graflex Riteways are gems. Only downside is the slides are sometimes sticky on insertion, alignment issue usually.

The Toyos are the opposite, slides work like a hot knife thru butter, but... the graflex load so easily, the Toyos require more care to align film perfectly. I use both.

bob

Bob Salomon
14-Dec-2009, 09:38
Lisco, Fidelity, and Riteway are now all made by the same company nd have been for at least 15 years, the former owner of Calumet. I can't remember Fred's last name but he also owned Cambo, which is why he discontinued the original Calumets. Riteway was originally from Grablex and originally were a bit off in film location, I think they are OK now. Lisco/Fidelity were always made by the same guy in the same factory, the film plane location was good. Fred bought L/F about 15 to 20 years ago.

Lynn
Lynn,

Calumet closed the factory a few years ago. Fidelity, Lisco and Riteway are now history new).

Bruce A Cahn
14-Dec-2009, 10:07
They were the same, except for the name on them. Those and Lisco were all made by the same company on the same machine. Sometimes the dark slides were thicker on Fidelity, and Lisco tended to have thinner ones, but I have Fidelitys that came with Lisco slides. We still have new 4x5 and 8x10 Fidelitys, and even a few 5x7s in the store.

domaz
14-Dec-2009, 10:22
I've never had a problem with a plastic holder of any kind yet. The metal holders I have seem to have annoying problems- like darkslides not going back in, film too hard to get out and paint specking off that makes me nervous.

BradS
14-Dec-2009, 11:41
The only plastic film holder I've ever had a problem with was a Linhof. It was so badly warped that it wasn't even usable.

I think my favorite holders are the....well, their wood and I'm not saying which ones...'cause you guys will go out and drive up the prices! :)

Mike1234
14-Dec-2009, 13:38
MANY wooden holders are excellent. For one thing they don't attract dust. The Graflex and Eastman ones are very nice.

Steve Hamley
16-Dec-2009, 14:07
Folks,

Here's an interesting tidbit. When I've looked at 4x5 Toyo holders and Riteways, the Riteways looked like they had a MUCH less wide groove for the film to fit in (the distance between the platen and the retaining rails). So I got out the feeler gauges and measured a Riteway and a Toyo. The Riteway measures about 0.015", and the Toyo about 0.018 or 0.020. I suppose the Toyo is actually metric. So it appears the Toyo will allow the film to move back and forth about 0.003 more than the Riteway, and the Riteway is unquestionably tighter per a "go/no go" test.

I haven't the slightest idea if this is a meaningful measurement, especially with Bob Salomon's comment regarding sag, but by any reasonable definition the Riteway seems to win in holding the film flat.

BTW, I'm not selling my Toyos.

Cheers, Steve

Rafael Macia
19-Dec-2009, 17:28
I asked the same question,when I was beginning 4x5 work 20 years ago. I was told, (and I have never actually checked this out ...), that Ritewaw holders were made of a material called "mahogonite" ... a combination of plastic and wood. And that they were a lot stronger than the Fidelity plastic holders.
I have used nothing but Riteway's since.
Whenever I have dropped a Riteway they would never break. The slides always seemed smoother than the few Fidelity holders I have.
I have an abundance of Riteway holders, probably 75, and would like to sell 25, as I don't shoot so much these digital days.
Anyway,
Riteway, hands down, the finer holder !

David Vik
24-Dec-2009, 11:04
I have used both with the only differance being that the newer auto locking Riteways darkslide handles are a 1/2" longer, not fitting nicely into the RedWing pouches that I have. The older Riteways say made by Graflex, the newer Riteways are made by Fidelity Manufacturing! If your buying used make sure they aren't warped, and no cracked darkslides. I chased a UFO (Unidentified Foto Object) finally tacing it to a ding in a darkslide.

God Yule

Bob Salomon
24-Dec-2009, 11:08
I have used both with the only differance being that the newer auto locking Riteways darkslide handles are a 1/2" longer, not fitting nicely into the RedWing pouches that I have. The older Riteways say made by Graflex, the newer Riteways are made by Fidelity Manufacturing! If your buying used make sure they aren't warped, and no cracked darkslides. I chased a UFO (Unidentified Foto Object) finally tacing it to a ding in a darkslide.

God Yule

There is another difference. The later auto locking Riteway holders would not auto unlock in a 45 Linhof camera.

David Vik
24-Dec-2009, 11:35
Bob,
Good to know. As for the auto lockers, they have the little dials that allow for number coding the film edge, a nice feature which I soon found was of little value for my use. The lock can be sticky. I've had the lock pin stick, not lock the slide, in reality no wores than not shiffitng a mannual latch. Bottom line: unless I was to find them used I would not likely spend the money for the auto lockers.

D vik

Michael Graves
24-Dec-2009, 11:46
Has anyone ever heard of Studio Pro film holders? I've got a few of those and I like them quite a lot. They have black metal dark slides.