Beginner View Camera

[K-Dawg Keeler]

Can any of you folks recommend a low-cost "starter" view camera. I am presently working with a Speed Graphic for it's focal plane shutter and odd-ball lens capability, and a Polaroid 110b 4x5 conversion. I'd like to stay with 4x5 and I'd like to scout an auction site for bargains. Thanks in advance, Kevin

[venchka]

In a month you can scout here. Do some homework in the meantime. When you have access to the For Sale listings here you will know what you want. Gret stuff at great prices from great people. What's wrong with that?

[csant]

As Wayne said, the For Sale section is one of the best places to get great gear to excellent price - from great people :) Nothing beats buying from people you are interacting with on a forum and whom you get to "know" a bit better over that first month. At least I way prefer it to blindly fishing in some bay waters...

[Bill_1856]

Look at a Graphic View II and get the adapter to use your Speed Graphic lensboards on it. Both are frequently offered on ebay, and will set you back less than $150.

[Steve Hamley]

For 4x5" field cameras, the Shen-Hao and Tachihara are at the top of the list of the usual suspects. Also, an Ebony RW45 would be a more upscale choice, and if you like the Speed, a good used Linhof Technika might suit you.

If you're wanting a monorail, there are tons of them at very good prices. The Sinar system is nice because it is a system and lots of parts and accessories are available at reasonable prices. The Norma is the classic Sinar, and F-series are the lighter weight model while the P-series are the full studio camera.

Cheers, Steve

Cheers, Steve

[John Kasaian]

Look at a Graphic View II and get the adapter to use your Speed Graphic lensboards on it. Both are frequently offered on ebay, and will set you back less than $150.


The GVII is a peach of a camera, also the Calumet 400---great workhorse monorails & can be had for little $$.
If you want a wood camera, something like an Agfa Ansco Universal will give you the option of adding a 5x7 back to explore contact printing with a larger format. Pretty cool as well. If you want a camera that is easier to back pack with, you might consider a Gowland Pocket (monorail) or a used Tachihara.

[rdenney]

There are many great buys on cameras these days.

I would suggest spending a few minutes writing down your requirements. Those would include:

- The minimum focal length you need to accommodate.
- The maximum focal length.
- Back flexibility, including the ability to mount Graflok accessories.
- Bag bellows availability and easy of installation
- Parts and accessories availability
- Weight
- Bulk for packing
- Budget

I'm on my fourth view camera in 25 years, after having learned on a school-owned and ancient Linhof Kardan. My first was a NewVue, which I bought without evaluating the above requirements. That camera was an annoyance from one end to the other, and getting rid of it was a great pleasure.

I replaced it with a Calumet CC-400. That is a completely serviceable camera and they just about give them away. But it will not accommodate short lenses (though there is a version that will go down to 90), they are heavy, bulky, don't have interchangeable bellows, don't have recessed lens boards, and don't have a Graflok/International back.

As I started understanding my needs better, I realized that I love wide-angle lenses, and the old Calumet just didn't accommodate them. I came upon a good deal (for the time--this was 20 years ago) on a Calumet 45NX, which is generally the same as a Cambo SC. That camera addressed all my issues until I decided I wanted to do more with roll films, and that resulted in the need for much shorter lenses. The 45NX would accommodate a 75 pretty well, a 65 with considerable effort, and a 47 not at all. That is what led me to my current Sinar F.

But if I didn't to go wider than 90 for the most part, the 45NX would have been excellent. It is, however, heavy and bulky for packing, and I used a huge monorail case and a luggage cart. The Sinar packs much more tightly and is a little lighter.

The Graphic View mentioned elsewhere might fulfill all your requirements--I'm not suggesting that you buy the cameras I like. And your requirements will likely differ from mine. I'm just outlining a process for making a rational decision based on what you want to do with the camera. A cheap camera is no bargain if it doesn't meet your needs--I learned that the hard way.

By the way, if the weight and bulk is no issue for your, those Calumet/Cambo models are really excellent for many applications. They and the Sinar get the most pages on that auction site for stuff that fits them, and that stuff is currently very cheap. But generally I second (third?) the notion that buying on this forum provides prices just as good, and a much better buying experience generally.

Rick "and then there are field cameras..." Denney

[J Ney]

I'll second the aforementioned Tachihara 4x5... excellent starter camera that will sustain you for a long time if LF photography becomes a passion.

That being said, unless you feel like you need alot of movements / bellows. If that's the case, Tachihara would not be ideal.

[venchka]

Then along comes Wayne, who thought that $50 for a Kodak view camera with a lens in sutter, film holders and the original suitcase to put it all in was deal, in Houston.

NOT! I bought the FrankenKamera and wagged it home. My first disappointment: It wouldn't accept my RRS Arca-Swiss quick release plates. Hand holding this assembly of chrome and steel was not an option. Next disappointemt: I couldn't focus a 105mm lens at infinity. I could just barely focus a 127mm lens at infinity. Next Disappointemnt: The "view camera" lens in the old Compur shutter was really an old 150mm macro lens sold for use on a bellows with a 35mm camera. The Prinz name was a dead giveaway. That was a house brand for one of the companies that advertized in Pop & Mod Photo years ago. The lens was "glued" in to the front of the shutter with plumber's putty.

Fortunately I was able to return the camera for a refund. An advantage of dealing with honest people face to face.

Cheap and inexpensive are different things. Cheap can often be extremely expensive. Free can even be worse. That is a small camera tale of woe.

It's way too early to go into how one manages an assortment of 4x5 cameras. At the same time.

Good luck. Be patient.

Wayne, Wondering how to find time for 3 formats, on the upper east side of Texas.

[K-Dawg Keeler]

I think I want to start with 150-180mm. Trolling the bay I see Omega/Toyos, Graphic Views, and Cambos at inexpensive prices.

Since I am in essentially a student sort of situation I prefer servicable equipment that might have flaws that I can clean, repair, or don't affect the image so I can buy them cheap.

My budget is limited but I am mechanically inclined (I built the Polaroid conversion that I have and I've adapted an Aero-Ektar to my Speed Graphic), I have some machining capability, and I work for a micro-lithography optics company.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21735631@N06/4083524487/
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2544534&l=b24471d8d5&id=641929486

By buying in this way I want to have a range of options so I can experiment to decide what I like. Items I don't like can be re-bayed and items I do like can be up-graded if necessary. Certainly if I already had enough experience I could buy only the exact pieces in pristine condition and get right to it but I like to tinker and experiment on a limited budget. I can work with less than perfect because if I had to pay for pristine it probably wouldn't happen. Any camera in my hand is worth two or more that stay on the shelf.

I'm the technician that likes to tinker and shoot, my daughter the photo major is the artist. This way I get to play and and we learn from each other and she gets the degree.

[rdenney]

I think I want to start with 150-180mm. Trolling the bay I see Omega/Toyos, Graphic Views, and Cambos at inexpensive prices.

Of these, the Cambo is the more flexible, in my opinion. I define flexibility as being servicable, having a wide availability of cheap spares and accessories, and accommodating a usable range of lenses. For me it also requires interchangeable bellows and a reasonably available recessed lens board. You never know when your daughter will decide she needs the coverage of a 90mm lens, or the particularly look of a 19" Red Dot Artar. The most flexible camera on the market is the Sinar, but they are not as cheap as a Cambo. The Cambo, even though cheap, will still provide a solid camera and good value.

One nice feature of the Cambo is that both standards have, in effect, geared focus though it is accomplished using a friction drive on the monorail. The parts for front and rear standards are interchangeable, and bellows, lens boards, and film backs all fit into the standards the same way. The lens boards are big, allowing both a custom lens board that might hold Graphic boards (though that might be expensive) and recessed boards with enough room to operate a No. 0 shutter. They use axis tilts which are probably simpler for starting out, and more movement range than you'll ever need.

Toyos and Graphic Views are good cameras, too. But they don't have the same ratio of price to flexibility.

I ended up sidelining my Cambo only because my focus shifted (so to speak) to roll-film formats and very short lenses, which are not the Cambo's strong suit.

Rick "preferring modular cameras, especially when the requirements can't or won't be articulated fully" Denney

[K-Dawg Keeler]

Wayne, I do hear what you're telling me and I like to think I know the difference but I don't always. In a number of years "fishing in the bay" I have been burned on rare occasion but overall I believe I am still way ahead.

Last weekend my daughter and I went shooting in the CT countryside. The Pola Conv got one Grafmatic and the Speed got the other Graf with the Aero-Ektar. We spent all morning and into the afternoon and she shot with her D90 and N75 also. We took notes, identified an issue each with the Speed and Pola, and her work with the N75 produced excellent results that earned her best critique yet back at school. It might not be ideal way to go about it but we're learning and having a lot of fun leavened with occasional frustration. It'll be an advantage to have an inexpensive view camera when she takes a view camera class next semester because the school has a limited supply for use by students.

I appreciate the feedback from you and the others that post as well as searching old posts. It helps to not do my thinking in a vacuum. Thanks again.

[venchka]

Having your daughter as a photo companion places you light years ahead of some of us. Enjoy your time togehter.

[Paul Ewins]

I'll pop in another vote for the Cambo. While the old Calumets (400, 401 etc) and Graphic Views can be quite cheap they are nowhere near as versatile as the Cambo. In case you weren't aware, Calumet bought out Cambo at some point, so a lot of later Calumet monorails are fully interchangeable with Cambo monorails. The major exception to this is the Calumet Cadet which is not compatible at all.

Cambos come in two basic flavours, the original and more common square rail (Super Cambo/SC/SC2/Calumet 540/Calumet 45NX/Calumet 45NXII/Legend) models and the later more precise version (SCX/Ulitma/Master) which uses an almost X shape rail. Each rail system has its own standards to suit but otherwise use the same bellows, boards, viewers etc. A 4x5 can be upgraded to a 5x7 or 8x10 by adding a matching bellows and rear standard.

The SC versions are likely to be cheaper but the controls of the SCX will be more precise. A quick look on eBay showed a couple of SCXs for less than $300 BIN to which you only need to add a lens and lensboard. For that same money you might well get an SC with a lens.

[Bruce A Cahn]

As Steve said, an Ebony RW45 is the "upscale" choice. It is a great beginners camera, light and easy to use. Unfortunately with the drop of the $ it has gotten close to $1900 or so for a new one. You can sometimes get one used for $14-1500. After that a used Wisner traditional. They used to cost $1500 new, so used should be under $1000. If you order one from a store on the internet make sure you can return it. Wisners are good when they have no defects. An older Wisner made Zone VI is OK too. In the lower price range the Osaka, Tachihara, and possibly the Shen Hao should be considered.

[Robbie Shymanski]

For the $300 I paid for a used Toyo 45G, that included a recessed board and leather bellows, I could not have received a better investment. It is a great modular system. Tons of affordable accessories on "tha' bey" and at KEH.com where the only hold has been my own stinginess. Plus there are tons of new stuff. A great system.

[Marko]

Shen-Hao remains the most affordable new camera by far. There are plenty of very affordable accessories for them, including the bag bellows.

I've had one for two years and was very happy with it. It has all the movements you may ever want, but it is heavier by more than a pound compared to a Tachihara. It also has interchangeable bellows and Graflock back. It is as complete as a wooden field camera can reasonably be without being luxurious.

I also have a Calumet 540 (essentially an early Cambo SC) and a Tachihara. Each one of them has its strengths and its weaknesses, but overall, each one of them is in its own way a very good deal for the price.

The Cambo/Calumet is heavy and solid, like most monorails, comfortable to work with with plenty of accessories on the used market. Its main drawback, aside from weight, is that it can be difficult with wide angle lenses. On the other hand, it can accommodate very long focal lengths (for a 4x5) and it is very solid.

Tachihara is light and a joy to use. I have finally settled on this one as my field camera, despite having fewer movements than a Shen-Hao and despite lack of interchangeable bellows and Graflock back. I decided that weight is more important in the field and if I change my mind, I can always sell it.

Just my $0.02, hope it helps.

[Jim Jones]

Kevin, the Anniversary model Speed Graphic uses the 4" lensboards common to the neat little Graphic View and many other cameras of its day. These boards are readily fabricated. The later Speed Graphics have front tilts, but use formed aluminum boards. One can make these, but it isn't as easy. Using a common lensboard is a great convenience as one accumulates cameras and lenses. Many parts are interchangeable between early and later SGs, including the front standard.

Like Rick Denney, my first view camera was a New Vue 40+ years ago. In the early post-war years when they were in production, new cameras were scarce and photographers would buy almost anything. Later, us newbies kept such monsters in use until we learned better. It did have a revolving back and did use 4x4 lens boards, though. Its contemporary, the Graphic View, was much better, and the Graphic View II was better yet. Since those golden years some view cameras have become a bit more complex and versatile, but accomplish little that we can't do with their ancestors.

[K-Dawg Keeler]

Thanks to everyone that offered advice, it helped keep me from doing my thinking in a vacuum. The Shen-Hao and Tachihara cameras are gorgeous but not quite what I was looking for. I was considering a Graphic View but decided to go a bit more modern. I will however build an adapter board to permit sharing lenses. I had just about settled on a Cambo with geared movements that went for $215.00 when I decided to take advantage of additional savings with an Omega 45D that came with a case and a Rodenstock 150mm Sironar-N for the same $215.00. It arrived in very nice shape with spotless optics. I know I gave up some of the Cambo flexibility, but I used the savings to get a Caltar S-II 210mm. Why are the 90mm's so much pricier? Owning the camera got my daughter into a View Camera class that fills quickly because of a limited number of school-owned cameras.

We shot 12 sheets of Ilford HP5+ saturday at the shore and we're anxious to see the results. Even after shooting 4x5 with the Speed Graphic, the Omega was exciting and a pleasure to use.

I remain open to suggestions and observations. Thanks again.

[rdenney]

Why are the 90mm's so much pricier?

Coverage. 150 and 210mm lenses can provide plenty of coverage for 4x5 without being a really wide-angle design. Both the lenses you bought are plasmats with something in the vicinity of 70-degree coverage. A 90mm Super Angulon has 100 degrees of coverage even in the older f/8 formula, and 105 degrees of coverage in the newer f/5.6 formula (both would work fine for 4x5, by the way). You need more angular coverage with shorter lenses, especially if you want to use movements, because they are closer to the film. Your 150 Sironar makes about a 210mm image circle (I'm guessing), and the 210 Symmar makes a 294mm image circle. The 90/8 Super Angulon makes a 215mm circle and the 90/5.6 is 235mm. So, to provide the same movements, they need to be a wider-angle design, which requires bigger pieces of glass and deeper curvatures.

They are also pricier because they are less abundant and people are willing to pay more for them.

Rick "thinking an older 90/8 Super Angulon won't be all that pricey" Denney