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View Full Version : about 4x5 color slide film develop (jobo cpe,cpa,cpp,atl)



sean
26-Oct-2009, 09:23
Hello,
im really new in these color slide develop process. I usually shoot 35mm and just starting to shoot with largeformat b&W films because my father who was a photographer just passed away a couple years ago and left all the LF cameras and a lot of 4x5 slide, 5x7 B&W films behind. Since i am also really into photography and art, and just didnt want to through those films out, i thought i should give a try in LF too.
I just found out that its a bit expensive(for my situation) to develop large format films. It cost like $3-5 per sheet film to develop. is there anyway i can develop color slides in my bathroom? i live in a apartment with a small bathroom, so i dont have a dark room, and i dont think i will have one in 10 years or so.
How much are those Jobo cpe, cpa, cpp, atl series? i have been searching and i cannot find any price on them. are those model discontinued? If i get one of those processors...can i use it in my bathroom?

i am really sorry for asking questions that i should knew already....


thanks

Ivan J. Eberle
26-Oct-2009, 09:43
I use a Jobo CPP2 with a Lift and the 2509 reels, which I find very good for 4x5 E6 processing. It's bigger, but has more slots and a larger water jacket and try to hold more bottles of chemistry than the smaller version. (This is quite useful as E6 has 7 chemistry steps + a 4-exchange temperature and time critical wash step after the first developer.) It be awkward to bend over without some kind of stand, but it'd definitely fit inside a standard bathtub.

tgtaylor
26-Oct-2009, 10:46
Jobo stopped manufacturing back in 2004 or 2005. However used machines come up frequently on Ebay.

I would recommend the CPA over the CPP because you don't have to hook the CPA up to a cold water inlet. The CPP has a cold water solenoid that allows the water to cool as well as warm up. But E-6 and C-41 processing is done at 100F and the problem is keeping the water at 100 as it wants to cool to the ambient temperature.

During its manufacturing life, Jobo kept upgrading the motor to accommodate the heavier expert drums. The latest (and best) motors came with units with a serial number of 22000 and above. Any unit with a lower serial number has a motor which is not as strong as the latest.

Finally, it's not necessary and inconvenient to put the unit in the bathtub where you will have to work bent over. Any level location with sufficient space will work. I place my CPA2 on the kitchen countertop which is level and will accommodate the full length of the unit. This brings the unit up to my torso making it easy to work with. Moreover the drain hose falls into the sink which makes it easy to place a bottle under it to catch the used chemistry and the nearby electrical outlets and water source is handy. An arms length away hot and cold water source mean that I can adjust the sinks water temperature until it matches the processing temperature and fill bottles with rinse water as the slots become available.

sean
26-Oct-2009, 11:24
Awesome!!!!
i guess i am going with cpa model.. also it is really good to know that its not huge and can just work in the kitchen or bathtub.

thanks

venchka
26-Oct-2009, 11:25
A Harrison Changing Tent will allow you to handle film at all hours without waiting until dark. It has greatly expanded my ability to handle film in an apartment without a darkroom.

henrysamson
26-Oct-2009, 11:40
I have had good luck here for 4x5 and 8x10 E-6 and the price is reasonable:

http://www.photoconcepts.net/processing/e6.html

Paul Kierstead
26-Oct-2009, 12:33
I use a CPE-2 Plus with lift and do upto 12 sheets at a time. Works great. I will say though, that the mine is straining at the limits at 500-600ml or so of solution I use for 12 sheets, and I sure would like the dial-an-exact-temp of some of the other models. I do think a lift is a great great boon, though.

Ivan J. Eberle
26-Oct-2009, 14:02
The Lift accessory should be considered a necessity for E6. I had the CPP2 and did a lot of Ilfochrome and RA4 processing without it but didn't attempt E6 until I had the Lift because dumping and pouring results in less than precise process times. (Also got it because bleach is rather caustic, and it's almost impossible to stay out of contact with the chemistry on a regular basis absent the Lift).

Greg Blank
26-Oct-2009, 19:19
Sorry I am not sure I completely agree, or like the portion quoted below- everything else sounds good "Is accurate". The CPP2 does not require a cold water inlet-however though in warm places in summer the soleniod is good for maintaining cool water B&W processing. There is a problem with the machine if it does not hold at 100. The CPP2 should be more accurate than a CPA, by far. CPA's have a mechanical temp adjustment switch, versus a digital thermistor that adjust via the programed memory. CPA's are only accurate to 1/2 a degree at best if I adjust them, probably 4 degrees if I have not. I find most CPP2's that I have worked on are very accurate at the 100 degree mark. Occasionally if the the temp probe goes bad or someone has flooded their machince and dowsed the circuitry you will see incorrect temperatures and jumpy displays.

The CPP2 processor will typically read at 100.4 in the trough when the display says 100-that is considered calibrated. (It accounts for drift past the drum, by the time the water flows past the drum it in theory is 100F)


[QUOTE=tgtaylor;521147]

I would recommend the CPA over the CPP because you don't have to hook the CPA up to a cold water inlet. The CPP has a cold water solenoid that allows the water to cool as well as warm up. But E-6 and C-41 processing is done at 100F and the problem is keeping the water at 100 as it wants to cool to the ambient temperature.

Jim C.
26-Oct-2009, 20:09
Awesome!!!!
i guess i am going with cpa model.. also it is really good to know that its not huge and can just work in the kitchen or bathtub.

thanks

Sean, You should make sure you have enough room for a CPA, whether it be in the
kitchen or especially the bathroom. I have one and it's larger than you think,
here's a link to Jobo's site with the specs for the CPP and the CPA
( same size, different bells and whistles )

http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/instructions/instructions_manual_cpa-2_cpp-2_00.htm

Ivan J. Eberle
26-Oct-2009, 21:35
They're also fairly heavy at 100lbs or more, when filled with 5 gallons of tempering water along with a couple of gallons of chemistry and rinse water.

Greg Blank
26-Oct-2009, 21:37
Hehe, yes by all means lift them while they are full :)


They're also fairly heavy at 100lbs or more, when filled with 5 gallons of water and tempering a couple of gallons of chemistry and rinse water.

sean
27-Oct-2009, 09:26
thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate them.
I guess i will do more search about those models.

Ivan J. Eberle
27-Oct-2009, 11:13
Well, Greg, I don't recommend lifting it while full, but rather mentioned this for the kind of shelf/support it will need, as it's going in a small bathroom.

adonis_abril
27-Oct-2009, 12:24
Hello,
im really new in these color slide develop process. I usually shoot 35mm and just starting to shoot with largeformat b&W films because my father who was a photographer just passed away a couple years ago and left all the LF cameras and a lot of 4x5 slide, 5x7 B&W films behind. Since i am also really into photography and art, and just didnt want to through those films out, i thought i should give a try in LF too.
I just found out that its a bit expensive(for my situation) to develop large format films. It cost like $3-5 per sheet film to develop. is there anyway i can develop color slides in my bathroom? i live in a apartment with a small bathroom, so i dont have a dark room, and i dont think i will have one in 10 years or so.
How much are those Jobo cpe, cpa, cpp, atl series? i have been searching and i cannot find any price on them. are those model discontinued? If i get one of those processors...can i use it in my bathroom?

i am really sorry for asking questions that i should knew already....


thanks

I developed my own e-6 with a Jobo in my bathroom...believe me, it's too much hassle and quite frankly not a good return on your investment..chemicals are expensive, not to mention the costs of the processor itself..I've given that up and opted for mailers.. You'd have to process a LOT of film to save money... I do think $3 is a bit much for 4x5 slides, you can try these guys http://www.photographicworks.com/film_processing.htm I've use them for my e-6 processing, they're reliable and at $1.80/slide.

Paul Kierstead
27-Oct-2009, 12:48
Well, "too much hassle" is always a personal thing but I've got a run (6 or 12 sheets) of E-6, start from zero to hanging the film, down to about 2 hours now, bathroom dev. Cost is very very reasonable, a Kodak 5L E-6 kit is less then $60 and will do a lot of sheets (somewhere around 100 4x5 sheets), so cost effectiveness is not bad, though there are some capital costs of course, and your time. Still, it isn't *that* much hassle or cost. It does take a little practice to get it to 2 hours.

Greg Blank
27-Oct-2009, 16:30
Paul;

Is that a true 6 step E6 kit and do you buy it locally or mail order it?


Well, "too much hassle" is always a personal thing but I've got a run (6 or 12 sheets) of E-6, start from zero to hanging the film, down to about 2 hours now, bathroom dev. Cost is very very reasonable, a Kodak 5L E-6 kit is less then $60 and will do a lot of sheets (somewhere around 100 4x5 sheets), so cost effectiveness is not bad, though there are some capital costs of course, and your time. Still, it isn't *that* much hassle or cost. It does take a little practice to get it to 2 hours.

Paul Kierstead
27-Oct-2009, 20:47
That is the true E-6, full process. I use the Kodak 5L kit and typically mix 500 ml or so at a time.

The trick with the Jobo, especially my CPE-2 plus, which has a pretty small heater, is to start with water that is pretty close to the target. This makes a lot less work for the unit. Also, make sure the water used for mixing is pretty close to temp. I fill a big insulated 'beer' keeper with a tap with water that is close to temp, mix the chems from that, and then use the remainder for rinse.

Set-up, clean up take probably 1/3 or more of the time. My next 'innovation' is to have enough beakers (and correctly sized for easy measuring) so I don't have to carefully rinse between each measuring out of chems; i'll just measure it out, place it by the bottle, then do all the bottles. I have found that 'batch' mode speeds things up. So I fill each bottle with 300 ml water, in one shot. Then i measure the chems out into the bottles. Then I top off each bottle to 500 ml. This kind of thing keeps every thing moving. Also, sequence helps. I fill the jobo, turn it on. I mix the chems, put it in the jobo for temp stabilization. *Then* I go load the reels while things stabilize. These are small obvious things, but help streamline the process; it also makes it a little more reliable, as you are less likely to 'lose your place'. My only real complaint is that our washroom can get surprisingly warm; the jobo adds quite a bit of heat. I usually switch into something more comfortable, which amuses my g/f.