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View Full Version : Best Ball Head for $200?



Michael Graves
14-Oct-2009, 08:58
I've seen dirt cheap ones, which having bought one, I can assure you that they aren't worth the #$%# it would take to bury them. And then there is the Really Right Stuff, which I will buy when I get a million-copy best-seller. Right now, I want to keep under $200.00. What is everyone using? Ideally, it would be able to fit onto a Berlebach 3032 and support a Toyo 810M. If I can't do that for two bills, I'll limit the ball head to 5x7 and smaller and keep using my Gitzo R4 head for the 8x10.

Frank Petronio
14-Oct-2009, 09:04
An older used Arca-Swiss.... post a WTB ad? Buy the cheap plates on eBay -- you can even buy the longer ones and cut them down to make several smaller plates!

kev curry
14-Oct-2009, 09:27
I use the FEISOL Ball Head CB-70 for 8x10. Its the only ball head I've ever used so I have nothing to compare it to but it functions well, the build quality is spot on, easy to lock down, rock solid, no creep and very smooth in operation.
Just a pity that there biggest QR plate isn't 100x100 rather than 100x47. Not a problem for 5x4 but not the best for 8x10.

http://www.feisol.net/ball-heads-c-3.html

Michael Graves
14-Oct-2009, 09:42
I hadn't thought about the size of the QR plate, but I can see that would be an issue. Thanks for the tip.


I use the FEISOL Ball Head CB-70 for 8x10. Its the only ball head I've ever used so I have nothing to compare it to but it functions well, the build quality is spot on, easy to lock down, rock solid, no creep and very smooth in operation.
Just a pity that there biggest QR plate isn't 100x100 rather than 100x47. Not a problem for 5x4 but not the best for 8x10.

http://www.feisol.net/ball-heads-c-3.html

Ron Marshall
14-Oct-2009, 10:36
KEH has a couple of used Arcas under $200.

Toyon
14-Oct-2009, 11:02
Avoid the Arca-Swiss ballheads. Yes, the company and its users will swear that if you say the right incantations it will magically unstick when it seizes, but in my experience the advice didn't work. Its a faulty design. Manfrotto makes a cruder, but effective and reliable, and much cheaper, heavy-duty ballhead.

Bill_1856
14-Oct-2009, 11:14
Have you ever seriously used a ball head with an 8x10? If not, try it before you buy!

rdenney
14-Oct-2009, 11:53
Have you ever seriously used a ball head with an 8x10? If not, try it before you buy!

Good advice here. I have and use an Arca-Swiss Monoball (pre-B1) and it works beautifully. Never seized up on me. But I found it dang-nigh impossible to level up a view camera on that ball head. View cameras are so top-heavy, and it's so difficult to make fine adjustments with the ball head, that I only now use it for smaller cameras. In particular, leveling the head is a nightmare, and I always try to start with a level camera for most work. But it's great for medium format cameras, including big heavy ones like the Pentax 6x7.

I have been using a Manfrotto 410 Junior geared head, but I'm displeased with it. The gears have lash that allows the camera to rock and roll. It never moves unless I nudge it, and I've never ruined an image with it, but it just doesn't seem right. I haven't tried to see if the lash can be adjusted down.

I'm looking for a Sinar tilt-head in usable condition, but haven't found one yet in my price range or that I didn't get outbid on at the last minute. I'll get one eventually.

Rick "who, if buying a Berlebach, might get the more expensive model with the ball leveler and forget the head" Denney

Michael Graves
14-Oct-2009, 12:06
Thanks, Rick. My Berlebach does have the leveler platform, and I find it to be a PIA to mount the camera onto it. To the others....are larger cameras that much harder to deal with than 4x5? I liked using my 4x5 Toyo on a borrowed ball head. So far, I've been using the R4 for the 8x10 and 5x7.

Ron Marshall
14-Oct-2009, 13:20
My Sinar 4x5 is fine on the Acratech, but not the Sinar 5x7. There are ballheads out there that will handle an 8x10; check the capacity.

jeroldharter
14-Oct-2009, 13:43
Thanks, Rick. My Berlebach does have the leveler platform, and I find it to be a PIA to mount the camera onto it. To the others....are larger cameras that much harder to deal with than 4x5? I liked using my 4x5 Toyo on a borrowed ball head. So far, I've been using the R4 for the 8x10 and 5x7.

A couple of things:

If you think that the Berlebach leveler platform is solid enough for the 8x10 (I did not think mine was) then you might get a Really Right Stuff quick release platform and a quick release plate so that you can use the leveling center post as a simple quick release ball head and accept the limited movements.

I had an Acratech Ultimate ball head that worked very well with a Toyo and Canham 4x5. Then I got an Arca Swiss F-line field camera that was a bit too much for the Acratech so I bought an Arca Swiss Z1 ball head which works great. Then I bought a Wehman 8x10 expecting to use the Arca ball head because the camera only weighs 8 pounds. However, the Arca Ball head is not quite up to the task, I think because of the combination of length x heft of a big 8x10 puts a lot of torque on the head which supports the camera on a large postage stamp sized plate. The long Feisol plate is the best option but it is only long, not wide. If it were wide (i.e. a big square or pie plate) it would stabilize the camera better but it would be fiddly to slip into the QR plate and defeat the "quick" idea.

So after working through this stuff, the only ball head that I had confidence in for 8x10 was the Arca B2 which falls far outside your budget of $200 (and mine). Feisol makes a big ball head too but I have not seen one. However, these big ball heads are relatively heavy which defeats one of the advantages of a ball head. So in the end, I bought a Gitzo pan-tilt head like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/170918-REG/Gitzo_G1570M_G1570_3_Way_Head.html

Gitzo recently had a $40 rebate on these heads which might have lapsed. On a tip from someone here, I learned to tilt the plate vertically to screw into the camera bottom and it works well, just about as quick as a quick release with a bulky camera. Also, the head has two screws if you like which is rock solid. The three way head is easier to level with a big camera especially if the bellows are extended in the breeze. The Gitzo weighs 2.9 pounds. The only down side for me is that the length of the arms make it awkward for packing but the handles unscrew for a more compact package.

rdenney
14-Oct-2009, 13:45
Thanks, Rick. My Berlebach does have the leveler platform, and I find it to be a PIA to mount the camera onto it. To the others....are larger cameras that much harder to deal with than 4x5? I liked using my 4x5 Toyo on a borrowed ball head. So far, I've been using the R4 for the 8x10 and 5x7.

I see that KEH has an old-style Monoball for under your requirements. The only ball head ever made that I think would be stronger and stiffer would be the Arca Swiss B1g, and the original Monoball is between the B1g and the standard B1 in size. I have played with the B1g holding a Zeiss Jena medium-format 1000mm f/5.6 mirror lens, which is about the size of an office trash can and very heavy. If it works for that, it will work for an 8x10.

But it would be easy to solve the mating problem. Mount one of these on your tripod:

http://www.kirkphoto.com/2.5in_Quick_Release_Clamp.html

And then mount one of these on your camera:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/2122-REG/Arca_Swiss_802210_Universal_Camera_Plate_3_8_.html

Unless you routinely need to point your camera at a sharp downward angle, this would work well.

Rick "who has converted everything to the Arca-Swiss-style plates" Denney

jeroldharter
14-Oct-2009, 13:53
...

But it would be easy to solve the mating problem. Mount one of these on your tripod:

http://www.kirkphoto.com/2.5in_Quick_Release_Clamp.html

...

I had wondered about doing that myself with an 8x10 on a Feisol tripod with leveling base. However, I was concerned that the bottom of the camera is large enough that once the camera is place in the QR base that it would be awkward to screw the plate tightly because of so little clearance. Also, the QR base is smaller than the diameter of the base of the leveling platform, so I wonder about clearance there too. In other words the QR screw might be tightly sandwiched between the tripod base and the camera bottom. Has anyone really tried this to see if it works?

rdenney
14-Oct-2009, 14:04
I had wondered about doing that myself with an 8x10 on a Feisol tripod with leveling base. However, I was concerned that the bottom of the camera is large enough that once the camera is place in the QR base that it would be awkward to screw the plate tightly because of so little clearance. Also, the QR base is smaller than the diameter of the base of the leveling platform, so I wonder about clearance there too. In other words the QR screw might be tightly sandwiched between the tripod base and the camera bottom. Has anyone really tried this to see if it works?

It's a good point. I used that clamp and plate for my Sinar 4x5 camera, and attached the clamp to the Manfrotto quick-release plate on the 410 geared head. I used big tools to make that connection very tight. I have no problem with the screw, but the tripod adapter on the Sinar is round and not that wide. On the bottom of a camera bed, it might interfere. I do have to be careful how I mount my Pentax 6x7 on my Monoball to keep the thumbscrew accessible.

One of these might help, though:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554327-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_120_38_120_38_Tripod_Spacer_for.html

Rick "wondering if the A-S quick-release clamp might work, too" Denney

Michael Graves
15-Oct-2009, 03:25
That's brilliant! Why was I too dumb to think of that?



I see that KEH has an old-style Monoball for under your requirements. The only ball head ever made that I think would be stronger and stiffer would be the Arca Swiss B1g, and the original Monoball is between the B1g and the standard B1 in size. I have played with the B1g holding a Zeiss Jena medium-format 1000mm f/5.6 mirror lens, which is about the size of an office trash can and very heavy. If it works for that, it will work for an 8x10.

But it would be easy to solve the mating problem. Mount one of these on your tripod:

http://www.kirkphoto.com/2.5in_Quick_Release_Clamp.html

And then mount one of these on your camera:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/2122-REG/Arca_Swiss_802210_Universal_Camera_Plate_3_8_.html

Unless you routinely need to point your camera at a sharp downward angle, this would work well.

Rick "who has converted everything to the Arca-Swiss-style plates" Denney

George E. Sheils
15-Oct-2009, 15:13
Michael,

This is my set-up. I too use a Berlebach 3032 Tripod with a Sinar Pan/Tilt Head which will more than hold 10x8 Sinar without any creep. I find it much better than any ballhead.

Just scroll down to post 20 on this link:http://www.hasselbladinfo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3675&page=2

Frank Petronio
15-Oct-2009, 16:00
Hard to beat a Sinar pan tilt if you can live without the yaw... (but there are similar pan-tilts for movie cameras and by Ries that also very nice and strong.) I had a $50 Balco (spelling?) one from the 50s that was super.

jeroldharter
15-Oct-2009, 17:46
Bruce Wehman of Wehman Cameras has a cool old pan-tilt head that uses a large round disc as the quick release plate which is much less fiddly than the usual rectangular plate and easier than a manual screw. Ries look good but they are relatively heavy and >> $200. A Sinar pan-tilt is only ~$1800 last I looked. Foba makes a cheap one for $1300

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/247458-REG/Foba_31_0118_Double_Pan_Tilt_Head.html#specifications

Frank Petronio
15-Oct-2009, 17:54
I've bought Sinar Pan-Tilts for $150-$175, the old school head I misspelled was a Balco, look for one of those, probably $50 on eBay and it looks like the Ries $$$ ones.

You could also get the Linhof Pan-Tilt: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/31380-REG/Linhof_003668_90mm_Leveling_Pan_Tilt_Head.html

Ain't window shopping with Michael's money fun?

George E. Sheils
16-Oct-2009, 03:03
I've bought Sinar Pan-Tilts for $150-$175, the old school head I misspelled was a Balco, look for one of those, probably $50 on eBay and it looks like the Ries $$$ ones.

You could also get the Linhof Pan-Tilt: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/31380-REG/Linhof_003668_90mm_Leveling_Pan_Tilt_Head.html

Ain't window shopping with Michael's money fun?

I bought my Sinar Pan & Tilt head for just £11 a couple of months ago. All it was missing was the little centre screw which cost me just £3 to replace! :D

Total cost £14.

There are bargains out there if you look and are willing to be patient.

Yeah Frank, I agree it is a lot of fun when you limit yourself to not spending a fortune.

rdenney
16-Oct-2009, 07:13
I've bought Sinar Pan-Tilts for $150-$175

Frank, if you see one in usable condition at that price, please PM me and I'll buy it in an instant.

I just got outbid for one on Ebay at over $250, which is still more than I wanted to spend.

Rick "who doesn't mind scratches if it works" Denney

oris642
19-Oct-2009, 16:35
Kerry at ReallyBigCameras has a "Try Before You Buy" program....


Have you ever seriously used a ball head with an 8x10? If not, try it before you buy!

timbo10ca
20-Oct-2009, 16:55
I have been using the Manfrotto 488RC2 I bought for my SLR gear- seems to work fine for my 5x7. I doubt it would be good for any but the smallest/lightest 8x10. Even then I doubt it would work......

Jim Cole
20-Oct-2009, 17:08
I use and love an Arca Swiss ballhead on my 4x5, but I cannot imagine trying to control my 8x10 Deardorff on a ballhead.

Michael Graves
21-Oct-2009, 05:26
I've been reading all the warnings about using an 8x10 on a ball head and I'm getting a bit leary. I was on ReallyBigCameras and the Photo Clams look appealing. But I saw nothing about a Try and Buy program. Where do I look?

Peter De Smidt
21-Oct-2009, 05:43
I've been reading all the warnings about using an 8x10 on a ball head and I'm getting a bit leary. I was on ReallyBigCameras and the Photo Clams look appealing. But I saw nothing about a Try and Buy program. Where do I look?

Email Kerry at ReallyBigCameras. Ask him.