First Look Through the Surplus Shed "Metrogon"

[Chauncey Walden]

What the heck, for $45 how could I resist? It arrived yesterday, complete with front and back lens covers (made of light clear plastic, but they are there) with the impressive center filter (permanently installed?) bringing the front diameter to 5 3/8 inches. I cut out and glued a board (6 inch square) for it last night to fit my Century Universal. This morning I drilled the board for the flange (70mm) which is a slip fit split ring with hex head locking screw and 3 screw hole mounting, and painted it. I decided to put the flange on the back of the board to give me maximum clearance from the standard to the focal plane and less compression of the bellows. The rear of the lens housing is straight sided and about 60mm diameter with its protruding hemispherical rear element. I mounted it on the camera and took it out back for evaluation. After getting it centered and squared up and pulling the bellows forward to the last hook, I focused on some reeds at about 50 feet. The standard was fully on the focusing rail and the rail was advanced more than a half inch. The lens is apparently 150mm in focal length (as advertised) and the fixed aperture appears to be about f/11. The image was very crisp and bright even though I was not using a dark cloth. The illumination was even from side to side and corner to corner. A close scrutiny through the cut corners of the GG showed that only at the very corners was there any less than full view of the aperture. Nothing weird about the image appeared to be going on in the corners. I checked the angle of view and I'm going to estimate it at 75 degrees available on the GG. I'm anxious to get some film behind it!

[Paul Kierstead]

I was looking forward to a picture through it!

[Ed Richards]

All Right!! I was hoping someone would try one.

Ed

[Chauncey Walden]

I thought I should check to see how much light the center filter was eating before I tried any film with the lens so I got my 159mm Wollensak out and a spotmeter and compared the readings for some grass in the center of the view. The Wolly at f/12.5 read 1/3 stop brighter so the effective f stop exposure wise for the Metrogon I'm going to call 11 and 2/3. Interestingly, the Wolly, even though 9mm longer, had to be set back on the rail a good half inch to get the same focus, so the way I mounted the Metrogon was effective in getting me more breathing room behind the standard. Also, centered up and as far forward on the rail as possible, the rail does not intrude into a horizontal view for either lens on my camera.

[Dave Grenet]

Any film results yet?

How does it stand up?

[John Jarosz]

Nice conversion. I have the 12" (300mm) version that I use on my 8x20. It's an awesome lens design. If you rummage around the net, you may find the diameters for waterhouse stops for that lens. That's what I built for mine. You have to stop it down to F11 or so to get rid of some aberrations.
Link to Metrogon page (http://www.metrogon.20megsfree.com/)

My 12" is quite heavy, but it gives fine images.

[John Berry]

Here is mine. I had it mounted in an aphax shutter by tim at lens-to-shutter. figure about $600.00 at the end. Waterfall is about 20 ft away.
John

[Chauncey Walden]

I shot the Metrogon against the 159 Wolly and I see no improvement over the Wolly (especially since the Wolly is so much smaller and has a shutter and stops.) That said, the Metrogon is very impressive looking on the camera.

[Shingoshi]

I was trying to get one of these about two months ago. Although, I was looking for the 12" version. I need to find one to build what I hope will be an anamorphic fisheye. My intent is to separate the elements and mount the front one ahead of my anamorphic lens. I don't know how much trouble this will be. But I want to take the chance on getting it to work.

Are there anymore of these lenses left where you got yours?

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

[RickV]

They're still listed Shingoshi, but not at the October special price.
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l10084.html

[Shingoshi]

They're still listed Shingoshi, but not at the October special price.
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l10084.html
Thanks! I'm checking them out now.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

EDIT: I've bookmarked the page for future reference. If they still have one in January, I'll get it.

[BetterSense]

I just bought two 8x10 film holders, and I've been looking for a cheap lens, preferably a wideish one, so that I can build a fixed-focus box-camera. Will the metrogon cover 8x10 at hyperfocal distance?

[Chauncey Walden]

Yes, although I see that they are now $75. It would be a good lens for a fixed focus box camera. The fixed f/stop of 11 2/3 without a shutter shouldn't be a problem there if you are making paper negs or using ortho/litho film.

[BetterSense]

Lame. I knew I should have bought one when they were 45.

[Shingoshi]

Yes, although I see that they are now $75. It would be a good lens for a fixed focus box camera. The fixed f/stop of 11 2/3 without a shutter shouldn't be a problem there if you are making paper negs or using ortho/litho film.

And you can just as easily use a dense filter with color of your choice for Black & White shooting, and increase the exposure times accordingly.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

[Shingoshi]

Nice conversion. I have the 12" (300mm) version that I use on my 8x20. It's an awesome lens design. If you rummage around the net, you may find the diameters for waterhouse stops for that lens. That's what I built for mine. You have to stop it down to F11 or so to get rid of some aberrations.
Link to Metrogon page (http://www.metrogon.20megsfree.com/)

My 12" is quite heavy, but it gives fine images.
If you or anyone else knows where to find the 12"/300mm Metrogon, please let me know by PM.

And if you don't mind, please send me some pictures of your lens or post them here for everyone else to see as well.

Thanks,
Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

[John Jarosz]

Mounted on a 2D lensboard. The 4x5 lens shown for comparison is a 135 Schnieder.

In the original 2D configuration, the camera is not capable of supporting this lens. I have made a strut/monorail that supports the hinged frame of the 2D. The 12" version of the Metrogon is very heavy. I don't have a photo of the lens mounted on the camera (yet). I suppose I could do that sometime if there is any interest.

John

[Shingoshi]

Mounted on a 2D lensboard. The 4x5 lens shown for comparison is a 135 Schnieder.

In the original 2D configuration, the camera is not capable of supporting this lens. I have made a strut/monorail that supports the hinged frame of the 2D. The 12" version of the Metrogon is very heavy. I don't have a photo of the lens mounted on the camera (yet). I suppose I could do that sometime if there is any interest.

John
Since I think you've taken this lens apart, I would like to know what's the thread diameter that mounts the front element to the barrel/shutter. I need to know how large of an aperture I have to work with in my project. In my particular case, I would only be using the front element.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

[John Jarosz]

The 12" version of the Metrogon is simply scaled up from the 6" version. They are identical except for the scale factor.

There are no mounting threads. The lens consists of two cells, each containing two lenses. A spacer needs to be fabricated to obtain the correct cell spacing. There is no diaphram. Waterhouse stops must be fabricated and incorporated into the spacer. The entire lens assembly with spacers are bolted together with (4) thru bolts. The diameter of the shoulder where the spacer engages the lens cells is 4.34" ( 110.24mm). I have seen installations of shutters on the 6" version but I do not believe it possible to mount a shutter into the 12" version.

I don't understand how only the front cell can be used alone.

John

[Shingoshi]

What I'm doing is completely OUTSIDE THE BOX. So I'm not doing anything that you would expect as usual. I'm using the Metrogon to create an entirely NEW lens.


The 12" version of the Metrogon is simply scaled up from the 6" version. They are identical except for the scale factor.

There are no mounting threads. The lens consists of two cells, each containing two lenses. A spacer needs to be fabricated to obtain the correct cell spacing. There is no diaphragm. Waterhouse stops must be fabricated and incorporated into the spacer. The entire lens assembly with spacers are bolted together with (4) thru bolts. The diameter of the shoulder where the spacer engages the lens cells is 4.34" ( 110.24mm). I have seen installations of shutters on the 6" version but I do not believe it possible to mount a shutter into the 12" version.

I don't understand how only the front cell can be used alone.

John
1.) So this is NOT like a large format lens with the two cells screwed into a shutter between them?
2.) How is the spacer held in place then? How do the cells mount into the spacer?
3.) I would (but not necessarily) use a Skink Sieve (from eBay) in place of a diaphragm. I am more likely to use a circular polarizer between the cells.
4.) So I take it that the spacer itself is NOT threaded? The cells aren't thread into the spacer?
5.) A Sinar Auto Copal shutter is large enough to handle the task. Though I won't necessarily need it here.

A few notes of explanation:
1.) I want to mount the front cell of this lens in front of another lens.
2.) The lens behind it will be an anamorphic conversion lens.
3.) I probably won't even be using a shutter in this situation. At least the use of a shutter won't be dictated by the Metrogon's front cell.

After all of the above, I have other questions:
1.) How difficult is it to remove the lenses from the front cell?
2.) More specifically, I need to know if I can remove the front cell's ring which uses the thru-bolts to attach the rear cell?
That front ring may cause vignetting in my application. I need to use the front cell like the front of a Nikkor 6mm Fisheye. I need enough room to mount the front of the anamorphic lens recessed/submerged into the back of the Metrogon's front cell. That's why I needed to know the opening diameter of the back of the front cell.

And just out of curiosity. Is the front cell of the 6" version small enough to fit closely behind/into the 12" version's front cell? That may not be of importance, but I'm just curious. The idea here is to increase the field of view of the anamorphic. If the two Metrogons can be used in conjunction (one mounted/stacked behind the other), that would definitely achieve it.

Thanks,
Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

[John Jarosz]

1.) So this is NOT like a large format lens with the two cells screwed into a shutter between them?
Correct


2.) How is the spacer held in place then? How do the cells mount into the spacer?
The 4.34" diameter is a pilot diameter that fits into a bore in the spacer from either end. Bolts from the front of each cell screw into the spacer to hold them in place. The spacer controls the concentricity of the two cells to each other as well as the distance between the cells.


4.) So I take it that the spacer itself is NOT threaded? The cells aren't thread into the spacer?
Correct. Mounting bolts from the cells screw into the spacer.


5.) A Sinar Auto Copal shutter is large enough to handle the task. Though I won't necessarily need it here.
Maybe large enough in diameter, but it most probably to thick to fit. And there is not room for both a diaphram and a shutter.


1.) How difficult is it to remove the lenses from the front cell?
2.) More specifically, I need to know if I can remove the front cell's ring which uses the thru-bolts to attach the rear cell?
That front ring may cause vignetting in my application. I need to use the front cell like the front of a Nikkor 6mm Fisheye. I need enough room to mount the front of the anamorphic lens recessed/submerged into the back of the Metrogon's front cell. That's why I needed to know the opening diameter of the back of the front cell.
I have no idea how to take apart these cells. I wanted my lens to function as intended, that is, as a wide angle lens for my 8x20. I would never attempt to disturb the original glass mounting into the cells for fear of disturbing the positioning. You are in uncharted waters here. It was difficult enough for me to achieve a common physical axis between the cells in machining my spacer.

My comments are about the 12" version. I have never seen the the 6" version in the flesh, so to speak.

John

[Shingoshi]

Thanks for the information. I will take all of this into consideration.

Have you ever seen the Nikkor 6mm Fisheye? Now that's one huge piece of glass! With 220 degrees angle of view.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

[Shingoshi]

EDIT: I just realized that I was vague. I meant to put the Sinar Auto Copal shutter behind the lens, not in the middle of it. I hope that carefully explains how I intended to use the shutter, just as it typically would be used.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

ps. I wasn't allowed to edit my previous post. So I had to add another just for this.