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Bruce Watson
2-Oct-2009, 12:08
I'm looking at the Canham MQC57. It weighs in at 2.6 Kg (5.7 lbs).

That's about the lightest I've found. Are there lighter weight 5x7s out there? If so, please tell me what you know.

Frank Petronio
2-Oct-2009, 12:09
That old Toyo Whole Plate Aluminum camera looks pretty light.... lot of interest in that lately, raising the prices but still a fraction of the cost of a Canham.

Mike1234
2-Oct-2009, 12:32
If you're interested in a really nice used MQC 57 with several accessories then PM me. I've decided to try 4x10 and I can't afford both.

As Frank states, the Toyo 6.5x8.5 are very lightweight and they do pop up occasionally. In fact, there's one in the classifieds right now. However, the 5x7 backs are very hard to find. You'll ususally find these with the 4x5 backs. Their rear movements are a bit more limited than the Canham but this doesn't matter if you don't need them. Lastly, they have less bellows draw than the MQC but this may not affect your needs if you don't intend to shoot long lenses or close-ups. The Toyo full plate is a fine camera though. In fact, I had one years ago and sold it... but only because I couldn't find a 5x7 back. Had I found the back I would probably still have that Toyo.

Oren Grad
2-Oct-2009, 12:43
Nagaoka 5x7. 3.75 lb. I weighed mine.

Ikeda Anba should be similar.

sanking
2-Oct-2009, 12:50
I'm looking at the Canham MQC57. It weighs in at 2.6 Kg (5.7 lbs).

That's about the lightest I've found. Are there lighter weight 5x7s out there? If so, please tell me what you know.

Unless I missed something the Canham MQC57 is the lightest 5X7 camera currently manufactured. I owned this camera for about a year and used it extensively on a trip to Spain. It has extensive movements and a lot of bellows draw but a couple of features that I found very undesirable. One is the fact that the back pivots on one point at the bottom of the frame, and unless you lock it down very hard it may move when you insert and remove the film holders, or even when you move the darkroom cloth. I learned to deal with this but never liked the feature. The other feature i did not like was the locking mechanism for the tracks. If you don't lock it down sufficiently the track may move, if you lock it down too hard you may ruin the mechanism. I have not looked at a new MQC57 in several years and Canham may have corrected one or both of these issues, but if not they would be a non starter for me based on my previous extensive use of the camera.

Next up in weight is the traditional wood Canham 57 at 6 lbs. Very nice looking camera with ;ots of bellows draw and movements for a field camera, but like all Canham cameras operations such as moving the track and opening and closing the camera are quite different from traditional folding cameras.

Next up in size and weight would be the Shen Hao FCL-57A at about 6.8 lbs. It weighs just less than a pound more than the MQC57 and has less bellows draw (but still enough for 450mm lens) and movements but the back locks down very rigidly, as do the tracks. On the whole it is a very user friendly camera and from my limited experience quite easy to work with.

If you are looking for the ultimate in light and compact look for an Ikeda or Nagaoka 5X7. These cameras fold down to about 7.5"X7.5" X 2.75" and weigh only about 3 lbs.
Bellows draws is limited and the longest regular lens that can be used is a 300mm.

Sandy King

Oren Grad
2-Oct-2009, 13:05
Just put a tape measure to my Nagaoka - bellows draw is about 14.5", or ~370mm.

From my perspective the main functional limitation is that direct front rise is quite limited - not a big deal in horizontal orientation, but a bit of a nuisance in vertical with a relatively elongated format. You can squeeze out a bit more with a combination of front and rear tilts, but the bellows get in the way very quickly.

Kevin Klazek
2-Oct-2009, 13:39
Per their web page, the Chamonix 5x7 (maple) is 4.6 pounds with the convertable back and 4 pounds with the horizontal only back.

pocketfulladoubles
2-Oct-2009, 13:41
I think the Chamonix is 4.59 pounds, as stated on their website. Never seen one in person though.

iozone
2-Oct-2009, 13:55
The "argentum excursor I. h." is listed at 2.9 pounds without a back. There are two styles of backs each weighing different amounts. This is a horizontal only model with only 270mm of extension. They do have other models including a Whole Plate model. Their web site is here: http://www.argentumcamera.com/eng/pages/other/home.htm

Renato Tonelli
2-Oct-2009, 14:08
Well here we are again mulling which 5x7. I can't make up my mind. The one I really like is the Linhof Technika, but at 12lbs it is a beast to carry even on a moderately long trek.
I am considering the Canham Traditional but I am concerned about the things Sandy has pointed out.
Ebony is much more than I am prepared to spend.
Wisner is still an option of sorts...

sanking
2-Oct-2009, 14:30
Well here we are again mulling which 5x7. I can't make up my mind. The one I really like is the Linhof Technika, but at 12lbs it is a beast to carry even on a moderately long trek.
I am considering the Canham Traditional but I am concerned about the things Sandy has pointed out.
Ebony is much more than I am prepared to spend.
Wisner is still an option of sorts...

Yes, same old same old.

I just went through the same soul searching the past several weeks. My Nagaoka is a camera I love and will never sell but I need more for some work. In the past I have rejected the Deardorff, the Ebony 5X7 and a previous version of the Shen-Hao 5X7 as too heavy, both versions of the Canham 5X7 for quirks, the Linhof Technika for weight, and most recently the Toyo 5X7 for lack of movements and bellows draw.

Most recently I looked at the Shen-Hao 5X7 I mentioned earlier and the Chamonix 5X7. I missed the part about the weight of the Chamonix, but otherwise the features of both cameras looked similar so at about $1300 from Badger Graphics it looks like a pretty good buy, compared to the $2000 or so price of the Chamonix delivered from China. So that is where I am now, still looking for the perfect 5X7, very light in weight, with beaucoup bellows draw and movements, and for a reasonable price, i.e. less than $1500.

Sandy King

Bruce Watson
2-Oct-2009, 14:35
The "argentum excursor I. h." is listed at 2.9 pounds without a back. There are two styles of backs each weighing different amounts. This is a horizontal only model with only 270mm of extension. They do have other models including a Whole Plate model. Their web site is here: http://www.argentumcamera.com/eng/pages/other/home.htm

Interesting thought. But I really need a camera with some level of revolving back. The way I work I sometimes have to place tripod legs where the rocks are, and doing the "flip the camera 90 degrees with the ball head" trick to make verticals often becomes untenable. So I guess there can be too much weight cutting, much as it hurts me to say it.

Bruce Watson
2-Oct-2009, 14:37
That old Toyo Whole Plate Aluminum camera looks pretty light.... lot of interest in that lately, raising the prices but still a fraction of the cost of a Canham.

Whole plate is too big for me. I want smaller -- and less weight.

Bruce Watson
2-Oct-2009, 14:40
Unless I missed something the Canham MQC57 is the lightest 5X7 camera currently manufactured. I owned this camera for about a year and used it extensively on a trip to Spain. It has extensive movements and a lot of bellows draw but a couple of features that I found very undesirable. One is the fact that the back pivots on one point at the bottom of the frame, and unless you lock it down very hard it may move when you insert and remove the film holders, or even when you move the darkroom cloth. I learned to deal with this but never liked the feature. The other feature i did not like was the locking mechanism for the tracks. If you don't lock it down sufficiently the track may move, if you lock it down too hard you may ruin the mechanism. I have not looked at a new MQC57 in several years and Canham may have corrected one or both of these issues, but if not they would be a non starter for me based on my previous extensive use of the camera.

Yup. Heard this. One of the reasons I was hesitant to go looking for a Canham. And if I have to look for alternatives, might as well get lighter too. If I can.

Bruce Watson
2-Oct-2009, 14:45
So that is where I am now, still looking for the perfect 5X7, very light in weight, with beaucoup bellows draw and movements, and for a reasonable price, i.e. less than $1500.

Exactly! Seems perfectly reasonable to me. :D

iozone
2-Oct-2009, 15:00
Interesting thought. But I really need a camera with some level of revolving back. The way I work I sometimes have to place tripod legs where the rocks are, and doing the "flip the camera 90 degrees with the ball head" trick to make verticals often becomes untenable. So I guess there can be too much weight cutting, much as it hurts me to say it.

Argentum does have a full line with rotating backs etc.. An interesting option would be the Whole Plate model with a 5x7 back. It has a rotating back, 480mm extension and shows to weigh 2.5 KG without back.

As for me, my 5x7 Norma weighs 8.5 pounds, and on a 6" rail section compacts small enough to fit in an f64 backpack. I'd like lighter but it's such a joy to use.

jeroldharter
2-Oct-2009, 15:08
For 5x7 you might consider a Wehman Lightweight with a 5x7 reducing back. You will have plenty of bellows draw for a 600 mm lens and can use it as an 8x10 camera too. The price is higher but so is the versatility. It is 7.2 pounds.

Oren Grad
2-Oct-2009, 15:26
That old Toyo Whole Plate Aluminum camera looks pretty light.... lot of interest in that lately, raising the prices but still a fraction of the cost of a Canham.

The Toyo is a half-plate (4.75x6.5) camera, which is why the 5x7 back is such a natural fit. All you have to do is find one. :D A WP expansion back was offered, too.

It sounds as though either a Chamonix or an Argentum ordered with a reversing back will be the lightest among cameras available new.

John Schneider
2-Oct-2009, 15:37
Toho used to list a 5x7, but I'm not sure if any were actually made.

And then there's the Gowland Pocket View, which can be a bit fiddly but is listed as 3lb with a fixed horizontal back.

iozone
2-Oct-2009, 18:16
There is one more camera to consider. It is my belief that Richard Ritter will make his camera with a 5x7 back and bellows. I'm not sure of the weight but it would certainly be light.
Richard would definitely be worth a call.

sanking
2-Oct-2009, 19:05
There is one more camera to consider. It is my belief that Richard Ritter will make his camera with a 5x7 back and bellows. I'm not sure of the weight but it would certainly be light.
Richard would definitely be worth a call.

I would agree. Richard Ritter is camera maker and designer with a photographer's sense oif what works. The cameras I have seen by RR are light in weight and very practical in use.

Sandy King

Tim Meisburger
2-Oct-2009, 21:20
I wish I could find one of those Nagaoka 5x7s. I have a 4x5 Ikeda Anba and so am used to the quirks of the style.

Frank Petronio
2-Oct-2009, 21:41
I had a Tachi 5x7 that was really lightweight but it was so flimsy I couldn't stand it. A 210 Symmar/Copal 1 stressed the front. I know some of you can use them and get good results but I think you can go too light sometimes.

J_Tardiff
3-Oct-2009, 05:43
I wish I could find one of those Nagaoka 5x7s. I have a 4x5 Ikeda Anba and so am used to the quirks of the style.

Tim, I have the 5x7 version (actually the Anba Ikeda) and I am very fond of it.

It might be worthwhile to talk to Jim at Midwest, he gets them in from time to time, that's where I got mine. Midwest (http://www.mpex.com)

regards

JT

Paul O
3-Oct-2009, 06:59
Have you had a look at the Walker Titan 5x7 XL?

Mike1234
3-Oct-2009, 07:24
I have an old 6.5x8.5 camera here that weighs a little more than 2.5 pounds. I'm sure a 5x7 back could be adapted. It's a Kay Cee #3.

sanking
3-Oct-2009, 07:28
I had a Tachi 5x7 that was really lightweight but it was so flimsy I couldn't stand it. A 210 Symmar/Copal 1 stressed the front. I know some of you can use them and get good results but I think you can go too light sometimes.


Flimsy to me means lack of rigidity. Some cameras are very light in weight but quite rigid when set up. My Nagaoka/Ikeda is that type of camera. It looks delicate and fragile but in use it locks down very positively with excellent rigidity between the front standard and back. I have used it with plasmat type lenses up to 210mm f/5.6 without a problem, but I don't believe I would want to hang a 300mm f/5.6 lens on the front. The 240mm lens that I use with this camera is a Fujinon-A, and the 300mm is a Nikkor M, both f/9.

Sandy King

Bill_1856
3-Oct-2009, 09:10
Flimsy to me means lack of rigidity. Some cameras are very light in weight but quite rigid when set up. My Nagaoka/Ikeda is that type of camera. It looks delicate and fragile but in use it locks down very positively with excellent rigidity between the front standard and back. I have used it with plasmat type lenses up to 210mm f/5.6 without a problem, but I don't believe I would want to hang a 300mm f/5.6 lens on the front. The 240mm lens that I use with this camera is a Fujinon-A, and the 300mm is a Nikkor M, both f/9.

Sandy King

My 4x5 Nagaoka is the same way, even with the 5x7 extension back and 8.25" Dagor/Ilex. A fall from the tripoid might be catasthropic though.

ljsegil
3-Oct-2009, 11:05
I use and enjoy the Canham 5x7 and don't find the controls annoying in the least, more intuitive to my simple mind and clumsy fingers than the Linhof Technika or the Wehman 8x10, and have not had any problems relating to either slippage or binding of the controls. My only wish would be for some zero detents for front axial tilts and rise, but I've gotten used to judging things by feel instead. Virtually any movements except rear rise/fall are there. Flipping to vertical format is quick and easy and can be done under the darkcloth, convenient for quickly checking alternative compositions (and in fact the back can be flipped 180 degrees to load from the left side, which is convenient if you're using a split darkslide for panoramic purposes, no need to drastically alter lens rise or fall to cover the other half of the film) The versatility of the camera is one of its appeals for me, without much extra weight beyond the simple 5x7 I can carry the 4x5 back and the 6x17 roll film holder to give me a variety of formats and film choices, including the convenience of ready (stashed a bunch) and quickloads when I've been too lazy to load my 5x7 holders. With the 4x5 back you can also take advantage of the Fujiroid films, or any remaining Polaroids you may have stashed away (guilty again) for immediate gratification (or mortification, depending). Also I believe gives you the longest bellow draw (short of a crazy Sinar erector set) of any 4x5 or 6x17 camera on the planet (as far as I know, 5x7 too already). And lest I forget the subject of this thread, it really is a great plain old 5x7 camera anyway, not the lightest, but perhaps the most versatile and certainly among the best crafted. Oh, and rigid and tough enough to have lived through a 300/4.5 Heliar hanging off the front (admittedly indoors, no wind).
Superbly serviced by Keith.
Larry

RichardRitter
3-Oct-2009, 12:20
There is one more camera to consider. It is my belief that Richard Ritter will make his camera with a 5x7 back and bellows. I'm not sure of the weight but it would certainly be light.
Richard would definitely be worth a call.

I have a 5 x 7 prototype I have been working on for a few years. Weights about 4 pounds. Finance officer put the ax to it because of limited funding and capital.

Bruce Watson
3-Oct-2009, 12:22
I have a 5 x 7 prototype I have been working on for a few years. Weights about 4 pounds. Finance officer put the ax to it because of limited funding and capital.

Bellows draw? Both horizontal and vertical?

sanking
3-Oct-2009, 12:23
I use and enjoy the Canham 5x7 and don't find the controls annoying in the least, more intuitive to my simple mind and clumsy fingers than the Linhof Technika or the Wehman 8x10, and have not had any problems relating to either slippage or binding of the controls. Larry

There are reviews of both the wood Canham 5X7 and the metal MQC 5X7 at the home page of the Large Format forum.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/canham/canham.html

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/canham/canhamdlc.html

The reviews IMO are fair and objective and provide excellent information about the pros and cons of each of these cameras.

Sandy King

ki6mf
3-Oct-2009, 13:03
Shen Hao or Camonix are the low cost Field Cameras. A Shen Hao 5X7 is $1299 in the US. I have a 4X5 Shen Hao and its performed 150%

eddie
3-Oct-2009, 14:46
chamonix is 4 pounds with 520mm of bellows but you could also get an extension.

sanking
4-Oct-2009, 07:25
chamonix is 4 pounds with 520mm of bellows but you could also get an extension.

There are two 5X7 Chamonix models. The one that weighs 4 pounds is the horizontal only model. The convertible model weighs closer to 5 pounds.

http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/_images/57X2.jpg

Sandy King

Michael Alpert
5-Oct-2009, 07:19
The horizontal model of the 5x7 Chamonix might be fine for landscape, but the bellows interferes with more-than-moderate rise. So it is of limited use for some applications. The levels on this and other Chinese cameras are terrible.

I question this interest in low weight. In almost all situations, it doesn't matter if your camera weighs six or seven pounds. If you are constantly fighting your flimsy feather-weight camera, you have not chosen wisely. If you are taking your camera on an epic hike, perhaps a smaller format would be a better choice.

Kevin Crisp
5-Oct-2009, 08:14
I have the 5X7 Ikeda Anba it is light and capable, extremely similar in feel and use to the Tachihara. It does not have a huge amount of bellows draw. You do give up something for the very light weight. If a Tachihara does not seem too light and flimsy to you, then you'll be fine with the Ikeda. It sets up fast.

I have been using the Canham MQC for many years now and it has no quirks that annoy me. At least on mine, the back will not flop forward or back if I remember to tighten even one of the T knobs at the base of the back. With two properly tightened I have never had a problem with it. The idea that you might have to tighten them so hard as to damage the camera makes no sense to me.

The perception of "quirks" is so subjective you really should put your hands on one before you nix it based on user comments. Obviously users can disagree.

Oren Grad
5-Oct-2009, 08:54
I have the 5X7 Ikeda Anba it is light and capable, extremely similar in feel and use to the Tachihara.

It's actually similar to the Nagaoka. I think Frank made the same mistake further up the thread.

Unlike in 4x5, where the Tachihara, Nagaoka and Ikeda are all lightweight cameras, just to different degrees, the 5x7 Tachihara is a big camera that weighs close to 8 pounds. It's a good camera for the money, but it would be unfortunate if someone were to order one mistakenly assuming it's going to be lightweight for the format just because it's a Tachihara.

Ken Lee
5-Oct-2009, 09:56
I have an old 5x7 Kodak 2D, but no scale to weigh it. It has always struck me as fairly light.

Anyone know how much they weigh ?

Oren Grad
5-Oct-2009, 10:12
I have an old 5x7 Kodak 2D, but no scale to weigh it. It has always struck me as fairly light.

Anyone know how much they weigh ?

This page (http://www.geh.org/fm/timeline-cameras/htmlsrc/mE13000111_ful.html) says 7 lb.

EdWorkman
5-Oct-2009, 10:22
Too bad you folks need movements or I'd say a Conley 5x7
Self-casing, revolving back, eminently packable.
Besides limited moves, the lensboard is small, but hey, stay light with some small, light lenses.

sanking
5-Oct-2009, 10:48
The horizontal model of the 5x7 Chamonix might be fine for landscape, but the bellows interferes with more-than-moderate rise. So it is of limited use for some applications. The levels on this and other Chinese cameras are terrible.

I question this interest in low weight. In almost all situations, it doesn't matter if your camera weighs six or seven pounds. If you are constantly fighting your flimsy feather-weight camera, you have not chosen wisely. If you are taking your camera on an epic hike, perhaps a smaller format would be a better choice.

I agree on both counts. The horizontal only model of the 5X7 Chamonix would be of limited use to me given the fact that I use 5X7 a lot in portrait orientation.

Also, a pound or so in terms of camera weight won't make a big difference in total weight of your outfit. 8-10 holders will weigh as much or more than the holder itself.

Sandy King

csant
5-Oct-2009, 12:22
I might be chiming in late - but I really love the Charten 5x7. 1.6kg, 21.5 x 21.5 x 5.5 cm folded, max draw 390mm. Perfect for hiking… :)

Chuck Pere
6-Oct-2009, 06:37
I have an Ebony tophat lens board that I use on a 5x7 Ikeda Anba. Works for me with a 355 lens in #3 shutter. But if you need long lenses a good percentage of the time I'd say look for another option. For me the occasional use of the tophat balances out with the camera's ability to easily use a 90mm.

wfwhitaker
6-Oct-2009, 06:46
My Deardorff weighs 5 lb, 11 oz. It's the old style with no front swing and 4 1/2" lensboards. I'm sure front swing would add to the weight, but this one works fine for my needs.

Frank Petronio
6-Oct-2009, 06:56
Sorry the Tachi model I had was flyweight, I never actually weighed it but anything made of toothpicks and tin couldn't weigh that much!

Oren Grad
6-Oct-2009, 07:09
anything made of toothpicks and tin couldn't weigh that much!

:)

They could well have started with an English-style featherweight model like the others, and moved on later.

Anyway, the t-and-t cameras feel dainty, but with reasonable care they can be surprisingly sturdy, and rigid enough for general field use with short to normal lenses. My Nagaoka must be at least 25-30 years old, but it's still doing fine.

QT Luong
6-Oct-2009, 07:25
Peter Gowland makes the lightest 5x7. I don't remember exactly the weight, but at one point when I was doing more backpacking I seriously considered supplementing my Canham with one.

Oren Grad
6-Oct-2009, 07:56
Peter Gowland makes the lightest 5x7. I don't remember exactly the weight, but at one point when I was doing more backpacking I seriously considered supplementing my Canham with one.

I had a Gowland 5x7 for a while, but eventually got rid of it in favor of the Nagaoka. It was simple and sturdy, but bulkier, fussier and slower to use. There were no detents or guides for any of the movements, and the standards were easily knocked out of alignment. Every setup involved a lot of fuss to get everything where it needed to be and make sure it stayed there. The Nagaoka is effortless by comparison.

Eric Biggerstaff
6-Oct-2009, 08:12
I agree with Ed, I love my old Conley 5X7. Simple, light and easy to use. Not a lot of movements but more than enough for what I use the camera for.

The nicest 5X7 I have ever had the pleasure to play with was the Lotus 5X7. It is silky smooth, lots of movements, solid, beautiful and all the bellows I need. May not be the lightest, and for sure not the least expensive, but man, what a camera. I can always dream!

Gene McCluney
6-Oct-2009, 08:19
I personally favor the Toyo half-plate metal folding field camera. I quickly made a 5x7 back for mine out of an old wooden 5x7 back, and since the back comes off and the outside of the back is square, it is reversable for horizontal or vertical shots. All the factory made Toyo backs were reversable, even the size-expanding backs such as the whole plate and 8x10 ones. This particular Toyo uses common Crown Graphic lensboards.

evan clarke
6-Oct-2009, 08:30
I have a 171 Arca 5x7 with reversible back & bail and will gladly carry an extra pound or so for the use of this wonderful camera....Evan Clarke

sanking
6-Oct-2009, 10:43
I agree with Ed, I love my old Conley 5X7. Simple, light and easy to use. Not a lot of movements but more than enough for what I use the camera for.

The nicest 5X7 I have ever had the pleasure to play with was the Lotus 5X7. It is silky smooth, lots of movements, solid, beautiful and all the bellows I need. May not be the lightest, and for sure not the least expensive, but man, what a camera. I can always dream!


I have to agree that the Lotus 5X7 is as close to a perfect 5X7 camera for my needs as there is. It is relatively light, opens and closes easily, has controls that are very intuitive, locks down with excellent rigidity, and has plenty of movements and bellows draw. I also like its *traditional* design.

Unfortunately at price of more than 3300 euros it is priced beyond what I am willing to pay for a 5X7 camera.

Sandy King

Renato Tonelli
6-Oct-2009, 16:07
It sure would be nice to be able to walk into a store and look at, touch the various LF cameras available. There are many cameras being made that look great but have never seen in the "flesh". Not being able to do this makes it difficult for me to choose one; specs. and pictures are not enough. Years ago, a few LF camera makers made it to the photo expo in NYC but they all stopped coming because of the high fees involved.

Frank Petronio
6-Oct-2009, 17:16
Do what a lot of us do, buy a used one, try it, resell it for nearly even money. Even if you loose a few dollars, consider it a rental fee ;-) I am completely serious here.

Other than a convention or a big workshop, it is hard to see a range of view cameras in one place.

sanking
6-Oct-2009, 17:26
Do what a lot of us do, buy a used one, try it, resell it for nearly even money. Even if you loose a few dollars, consider it a rental fee ;-) I am completely serious here.

Other than a convention or a big workshop, it is hard to see a range of view cameras in one place.

That is an excellent idea because in order to really understand if a specific camera will fit your needs you need to actually use it for a few weeks or months, not just see it in the flesh and put your hands on it. I have owned several excellent 5X7 cameas that just did not work for me for personal reasons that might not be relevant to other persons. In every case I only realized that the camera did not work for me after actually using it in the field in a variety of situations.

Sandy King

r.e.
6-Oct-2009, 17:43
Having balked at the quote that I got on an Arca-Swiss 5x7 frame set, I'm about to receive a Linhof Kardan Bi. For the price difference, I can probably hire a full time porter :)