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don mills
13-Sep-2009, 18:50
This topic has probably been covered at some point in the past (if so, please provide a pointer).

I am considering either the 360mm Rodenstock Sironar S or Schneider APO Symmar (even an older Symmar S may be an option). The key is that I absolutely need ultra, ultra sharpness in all corners. For this reason I'm staying away from Sironar N, which have let me down time and time again.

Please advise. Which lens and why? Is there another I should consider?

THANK YOU

John Kasaian
13-Sep-2009, 20:20
A 14" Commercial Ektar is pretty sharp when stopped down to f/45, even more so is a 14" Artar but the coverage isn't as great as the Commercial Ektar.
I shot some TMY (the early stuff) of the relocated Millerton Courthouse from about 1/4 mile away. There was a Toyota pick up truck parked on one side of the building and on my negative I could read the license plate numbers with a loupe! That was with the Commercial Ektar. I also shot a 1960's vintage stone fireplace with a 14" Artar and the texture of the palo verde rock popped out like it was 3-d (that was in my TMY days as well.) I wouldn't know how either compare to the Sironar or APO Symmar, but they sure impressed me. It is quite likely that the emulsion has something to do with it.

Drew Wiley
13-Sep-2009, 20:56
What a coincidence. John - my dad was the concrete inspector when Millerton was
built. But I sure hope they don't get another dam behind it or the last lower elevation wilderness canyon in the Sierras will go, and only a handful of people alive
know whats in it. Many times I've hauled my 8X10 up those steep walls and over a
secret ledge to what are some of the most spectacular wildflower displays anywhere
in the country each March. Nobody knows about those either, although there's a
small sampling of basalt vernal pools now managed by the Nature Conservancy,
which offers guided walks in the spring, up one of the more accessible spots. Plenty
of eagles around too. My 360 Fuji A has been the routine choice for both closeups
and distant shots there, and is definitely in a superior league than the Symmar S,
which I've also owned. The no 1 shutter also helps control vibrations. It gets my
vote.

Oren Grad
13-Sep-2009, 21:21
I am considering either the 360mm Rodenstock Sironar S or Schneider APO Symmar (even an older Symmar S may be an option). The key is that I absolutely need ultra, ultra sharpness in all corners. For this reason I'm staying away from Sironar N, which have let me down time and time again.

I'm baffled by why you'd be having a problem with the Sironar-N; its image circle at f/22 is ample for 8x10. Are you using extreme movements? If that's the problem, you might try the Apo-Symmar, which has a larger image circle than either of the Rodenstocks; it's my standard lens for my occasional dabbling in 11x14.

But the Apo-Sironar-S and Apo-Sironar-N ought to be fine lenses as well, unless somehow you've run into a bad sample. I've used - and been very happy with - both types in the 360 focal length, as well as in most of the other focal lengths. Can you explain more about how you're using the lens, what you're going to do with the resulting negatives or transparencies, and how you're judging? That might help in figuring out the best choice for your needs.

Blumine
13-Sep-2009, 21:22
Try a Fuji 360mm CMW or the late model NW with the all black copal shutter they are as sharp as the Schneiders if not more so. You could also try one of the late model 14 inch Schneider GD dagors. I got mine three months ago, and it has fast become my most used lens on 8x10.

Blumine

Paul Fitzgerald
13-Sep-2009, 21:28
Don,

all of the top dogs can easily exceed the resolving power of commercially available film so what are you using it for?

John Kasaian
13-Sep-2009, 22:14
What a coincidence. John - my dad was the concrete inspector when Millerton was
built. But I sure hope they don't get another dam behind it or the last lower elevation wilderness canyon in the Sierras will go, and only a handful of people alive
know whats in it. Many times I've hauled my 8X10 up those steep walls and over a
secret ledge to what are some of the most spectacular wildflower displays anywhere
in the country each March. Nobody knows about those either, although there's a
small sampling of basalt vernal pools now managed by the Nature Conservancy,
which offers guided walks in the spring, up one of the more accessible spots. Plenty
of eagles around too. My 360 Fuji A has been the routine choice for both closeups
and distant shots there, and is definitely in a superior league than the Symmar S,
which I've also owned. The no 1 shutter also helps control vibrations. It gets my
vote.

Drew, what a coincidence! My Uncle Al worked on Friant Dam! The pools back there are quite nice as are the wildflower displays. I like heading up there in the winter when the fog is in the valley---sometimes little tendrils of the stuff will creep up the canyon, but it is rare.

don mills
14-Sep-2009, 07:30
Hi Oren,

You guessed it, I use extreme movements...

I'm going to test an Apo Symmar and Sironar S this week.

Don


I'm baffled by why you'd be having a problem with the Sironar-N; its image circle at f/22 is ample for 8x10. Are you using extreme movements? If that's the problem, you might try the Apo-Symmar, which has a larger image circle than either of the Rodenstocks; it's my standard lens for my occasional dabbling in 11x14.

But the Apo-Sironar-S and Apo-Sironar-N ought to be fine lenses as well, unless somehow you've run into a bad sample. I've used - and been very happy with - both types in the 360 focal length, as well as in most of the other focal lengths. Can you explain more about how you're using the lens, what you're going to do with the resulting negatives or transparencies, and how you're judging? That might help in figuring out the best choice for your needs.

Drew Wiley
14-Sep-2009, 10:06
Blumine - The Fuji A is distinctly sharper near the edges of the field than even the late
Kern GD Dagors, and the smaller shutter helps a lot too. The difference shows up with
strong tilts, closeups, and big enlargements. However, I do use both lenses and both
are wonderful.

erie patsellis
14-Sep-2009, 10:12
If you're not married to the 360mm focal length, another option is a 19' RD artar, likely sharper than any film you can buy and huge image circle.

don mills
14-Sep-2009, 11:23
I recently bought my second copy of the Fuji A 360 and will test this week against the Sironar S and APO Symmar L. My older Fuji A 360 is not sharp in the corners compared to the Symmar S. Hopefully I have a bad copy and the new one will perform better in the corners with extreme movements. I'm mainly shooting still life's 10-15 feet away.

DM



Blumine - The Fuji A is distinctly sharper near the edges of the field than even the late
Kern GD Dagors, and the smaller shutter helps a lot too. The difference shows up with
strong tilts, closeups, and big enlargements. However, I do use both lenses and both
are wonderful.

John Kasaian
14-Sep-2009, 21:14
If you're not married to the 360mm focal length, another option is a 19' RD artar, likely sharper than any film you can buy and huge image circle.

I have one, it is super sharp! IIRC Morley Baer has a color print of the Califonia foothills taken with an uncoated version (Apo Artar) and the grains of wild oats on the distant hillside are tack sharp (which incidentally convinced me that this is one 8x10 lens I really really needed!)

erie patsellis
15-Sep-2009, 12:21
I have one, it is super sharp! IIRC Morley Baer has a color print of the Califonia foothills taken with an uncoated version (Apo Artar) and the grains of wild oats on the distant hillside are tack sharp (which incidentally convinced me that this is one 8x10 lens I really really needed!)

I have both a RD and not, if properly shaded, the non gives nothing up in terms of sharpness and contrast. If your shooting style includes proper shading, the non RD is a good value.

erie

Brad Rippe
15-Sep-2009, 12:40
What about the new Schneider 350?
Does anyone use it on 8 by 10?

Andrea Gazzoni
15-Sep-2009, 12:43
the Symmar S is one of my sharpest lenses but one of the most difficult to use also.
it is really a beast at nearly 4 pounds, almost impossible to use filters with such front size.
first lens to stay in the closet when you're backpacking.

andre