Monorail vs field camera?

[johnastovall]

As I continue to consider a future 8x10, I currently weighting (no pun) a monorail like the Toyo vs a field camera. I don't plan on carrying either very far from my econobox or I'll get a decendent of Mistletoe to pack it.

It seems the monorail offers more movements and a much more rigid platform while the traditional field camera is lighter and has a look which adds to the shooting experience.

I've also heard Monorails are cheaper but haven't been able to substantiate that claim.

Thoughts, experiences or should I just stick with my Leicas and the miniature format?

[Bruce Watson]

Thoughts, experiences or should I just stick with my Leicas and the miniature format?

You aren't the first person to come up with this question. Hard to believe, but true nonetheless. In fact, we just had a thread on this a month or two ago. Search this site and you'll find it, and a lot more besides.

[CG]

You're two for three. Yup, mostly, monorails seem cheaper used. You seem to be right on regarding weight vs movements. The Leica??? Nahh.

[lfgary]

john lives where the famous dublin dr. peppers are made. if you have never tasted one it is like comparing a $100 bottle of wine to boones farm. i used to have many clients in dublin and always bought a case when i was there. they are made with 100% pure cane sugar and will give you a rush you cannot believe.

[Frank Petronio]

I bought a near mint 8x10 Sinar Norma for $600 last year. Three years prior I bought a nice $700 8x10 Arca-Swiss center tllt pre-F line. While I am a careful shopper and got good deals, even if you paid the average going prices of 50% you'd still be coming in at less than half the price of a wooden Chinese knock-off of a Chamonix knock-off of a Phillips camera.

While the Sinar and Arca monorails are not ultra-light or ultra-compact, they are not that heavy (Arca is maybe 9 lbs; Norma maybe 12 lbs? guessing) and you can break them down to be compact and transportable. They are significantly more stable than any wooden camera, they offer full movements in every direction, and they are expandable and easy to customize. I can't think of a good reason -- other than doing ultra-light backpacking -- why you wouldn't want to use a solid, stable camera?

I also think they look nicer than those pretentious poser wooden cameras! Save your money for travel and film.

If you want wood, take a Viagra.

Studio cameras that use more steel and plastic -- Cambos and Toyos -- can be a heavier but they are even greater bargains. Heck a clean 8x10 Italian Fatif monorail with a 300mm Nikkor went for only ~$300 last week, bargains abound!

[John Kasaian]

8x10 field cameras are heavy, 8x10 monorails are very heavy (with the exception of the Gowland, which is actually very lightwieght!)
How much movements do you need and how much wieght are you willing to carry?
Consider everything about 8x10 will be bulkier and heavier than lesser formats---film holders, tripod, dark cloth, often lenses too.

IMHO, if you're not working very far from the car, a monorail makes a fine "field" camera.

[Archphoto]

I start wondering with you, John, comming from 35mm if the step to 8x10 INCH is not a bit too large.
Why 8x10 and not 4x5 ?
Keep in mind that film is a lot more expensive as is scanning if you want that.

Choosing a LF camera depends greatly on the needs of the photographer, esp the amount of movement for and aft needed.

Monorails have all the movements you will ever need, most field camera's have very restrictive rear movements, like focussing.

The main question to be asked first is what type of photography do you want to do with LF ?
Landscape: field and mono rail
Architecture: field, but for interiors not all are suited, so field and mono rail
Studio: mono rail

Standard lenses: field and mono rail
Extreme wide angle: mono rail and some field camera's, not all
Extreme long lenses: mono rail.

Best starter camera if you want all: Sinar, Arcra

Peter

[Don Dudenbostel]

If you're doing landscapes you won't need very much in movements. If serious architecture the you will need good movements. For thirty five years my sole field 8x10 for commercial and personal work has been my ancient Deardorff. For studio work where more extreme movements are important I still use my Deardorff. Smaller formats in the field I carried a Master Technika or baby Deardorff for general work and my Sinar Norma when extremem movements were needed. Now that I'm not shooting LF for personal work I still carry the 8x10 Deardorff and my 5x7 Canham wood and 4x5 Ebony in the field. They are lighter weight and much more convenient to break down and transport.

I'm curious why 8x10 if you're weighing 8x10 against 35mm. There's such a big difference in image quality IMO there's no comparison in that regard. I carry a Leica kit for my quick and dirty shooting and documentary work under tough lighting and where I can't control the situation. Otherwise I use my Hasselblad kit or my LF kit that's appropriate for the particular shoot.

If you're not set on contacting 8x10 and are scanning or enlarging I would suggest a nice folding 4x5 for field work. If you're wanting a faster system then a Hasselblad or Pentax 6x7 system. Both are dirt cheap now and fine quality cameras.

I'm printing for a museum show at the moment. It covers over forty years of my documentary work and ranges from 35mm to 8x10 format. As good as the 35mm images are they just can't compare to the quality and look of medium and large format. Of course many of my subjects could never have been shot on anything larger than 35mm. It comes down to your expectations and the application you will be using it for.

[Sal Santamaura]

8x10 field cameras are heavy...My 8x10 Phillips Compact II weighs 7.8 pounds.

[Don Dudenbostel]

John, my primary travel LF camera now is my SV45TE Ebony. If I'm flying commercial I carry the camera, 90mm Congo, 125mm Fuji W (1st version). 150 G Claron, 203 7.7 Ektar and 300mm Nikkor M, Pentax 1 degree digital, 4 grafmatics and a light weight smaller Gitzo CF tripod and magnesium head. It fits in a smaller Lowepro backpack and weighs very little and fits in the overhead compartment even in a regional jet. If I'm driving and want the full range of glass I carry the Ebony in a MF Lowepro case with a 72mm SA XL, 90mm SA 5.6, 125 Fuji W, 150 Symmar S, 210 Symmar S, 300mm Nikkor M, and 360 Nikkor T with an additional 500 cell and the same or one step up Gitzo CF. Still light weight and very compact. AT nearly 61 I like the weight and compactness of my 4x5 kit. My 8x10 kit is very large and heavy compared and unless I'm wanting negs for larger alternative prints I find little need for 8x10. The one big thing that makes my 8x10 kit so heavy is film holders and massive tripod. It's not so much camera and lenses as it is the secondary items.

Even my 5x7 Canham wood kit is compact and light weight compared to the 8x10. It too fits in a slightly larger Lowepro backpack and in it I carry a 90 4.5 Nikkor SW, 120 Nikkor SW, 180 Nikkor W, 240 G Claron, 305 G Claron and Nikkor 450 M along with a bag bellows. The holders get heavier and the tripod is a medium weight Gitzo CF and magnesium head. It's still light enough and and compact enough to carry and travel with.

[johnastovall]

I start wondering with you, John, comming from 35mm if the step to 8x10 INCH is not a bit too large.
Why 8x10 and not 4x5 ?
Keep in mind that film is a lot more expensive as is scanning if you want that.

Choosing a LF camera depends greatly on the needs of the photographer, esp the amount of movement for and aft needed.

Monorails have all the movements you will ever need, most field camera's have very restrictive rear movements, like focussing.

The main question to be asked first is what type of photography do you want to do with LF ?
Landscape: field and mono rail
Architecture: field, but for interiors not all are suited, so field and mono rail
Studio: mono rail

Standard lenses: field and mono rail
Extreme wide angle: mono rail and some field camera's, not all
Extreme long lenses: mono rail.

Best starter camera if you want all: Sinar, Arcra

Peter

Wanting to do contact printing only is why 8x10.

Landscape and rural Texas architecture

[Don Dudenbostel]

What kind of money are you looking to spend? Keep in mind the cost, size and weight of film holders. The tripod is going to be substantially heavier and larger too. If you can drive within a hundred yards or so of your location then the extra weight and size of a monorail is no big deal.

[Brian Ellis]

"It seems the monorail offers more movements and a much more rigid platform while the traditional field camera is lighter and has a look which adds to the shooting experience."

Not so sure about the accuracy or relevance of "much more rigid platform." "More" rigid than the two Deardorffs I've owned? Probably. But "much" more? I don't think so. The Deardorffs were plenty rigid, as rigid as I ever needed. And no way would I have traded whatever extra rigidity exists in a metal monorail for the added weight and general cumbersomeness of most metal monorails for outdoor use.

I'd say the same thing about more movements. Most metal monorails have more movements than most wood field cameras. Do you need them? Maybe if you do a lot of product photography, interior architecture in cramped quarters, or some other specialized type of photography that doesn't come immediately to mind. But for general purpose photography including landscapes, most types of architecture, portraits, street scenes, etc. if you have front tilt, rise, swing, and maybe fall, plus rear tilt and swing, you have all the movements you need for probably 99% of the types of photography you're likely to do. And you don't necessarily need all of those(e.g. front fall can be duplicated by front and rear tilt as can shift if you have swing, though even when I've had shift I've preferred to move the tripod and keep the lens and film centered rather than using shift).

Obviously all of this is generalizing. There are relatively light weight metal 8x10 monorails and there are wood field cameras with as many movements as some monorails. But you didn't specify any particular brand of either type camera so it's hard to do more than generalize.

[Archphoto]

Wanting to do contact printing only is why 8x10.

Landscape and rural Texas architecture

Now things make sense !

In that case: an 8x10 field should be more than enough.

Look around localy for one, new ones can be pricy, but there are plenty used for sale for a good price if you have some patience.

Get yourself NEW filmholders, it will cost you a bit, but in the long run you will be better off.

One of the good brands that are not that expensive for wooden fields new is Shen Hao.
I have one of their 4x5's and love it.

My 8x10 is a Sinar P2 mono rail by the way.

Peter

[venchka]

...

Even my 5x7 Canham wood kit is compact and light weight compared to the 8x10. It too fits in a slightly larger Lowepro backpack and in it I carry a 90 4.5 Nikkor SW, 120 Nikkor SW, 180 Nikkor W, 240 G Claron, 305 G Claron and Nikkor 450 M along with a bag bellows. The holders get heavier and the tripod is a medium weight Gitzo CF and magnesium head. It's still light enough and and compact enough to carry and travel with.

5x7 always seems to make a lot of sense.

[venchka]

Here you go. Dual formats. Wide angle and long lens hardware. What's not to like?

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=51032

[Walter Calahan]

Best to try both styles in the field to learn first hand what truly works for you.

I love my mono-rail Arca-Swiss 4x5, but also love my Canham 8x10 field camera. Different tools for different jobs.

[Gem Singer]

John,

I sent you a private message here on the forum.

[Frank Petronio]

That older 8x10 Arca in the classifieds is a steal.

So is Henry Ambrose's Kodak Master View, a light and compact METAL field camera.

[Donald Miller]

If you decide on a monorail look for a Sinar P. If you decide on a field camera look for a Canham. No sense spending money more than once. Buy good tools to start and don't be seduced by false economy.

I used the Sinar F years ago and would not waste my money on that again. I have owned several Deardorffs and while they are good cameras when they were built, most have to be redone in order to meet the performance of more current cameras.
I currently have a Wisner that I stole from someone that was retiring. It is a good solid camera with more moves than I will probably ever have the need to use.

[venchka]

Almost everything you need to complete a proper 8x10 kit.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=51721

Good luck!

[venchka]

John,

Don't over look a good rough terrain jogging stroller. That will get you farther from the car. And back again. With almost any camera.

Come to think of it, I reckon a good jogging stroller equalizes any difference in weight and bulk between a monorail and a field camera.

True or False?

[raucousimages]

Think about the combo I use.

A Toyo 45AII and all the lenses mounted in the 110mm boards. Then pick up an inexpensive Toyo rail camera like a 45D,E,F or even a G,GII or GX with the 110mm to 158mm lens board adaptor. You can go with a CX and not need the adaptor.

[Ken Lee]

One camera will not serve all purposes.

The same is true of lenses.

You can settle for one of each, but that's a personal decision.

One can choose to shoot only one subject, or to shoot only on Fridays, for that matter.