Carbon Transfer Printing

[sanking]

Hi,

I am starting a carbon transfer discussion group on Yanhoo.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarbronTransfer/message/1

Thanks in advance for participating. In time I hope to make this one of the premier sites on the web for information on carbon printing.

And thanks for bearing with me through my net stumbles. I know a lot more about carbon printing than web sites, forums and discussion groups.


Sandy King

[Greg Lockrey]

I'm in... :)

[sanking]

I'm in... :)

Hi Greg,

Thanks. I look forward to your participation on the forum.


Sandy

[Jim collum]

in here as well (have already asked my first question)

[Greg Lockrey]

Hi Greg,

Thanks. I look forward to your participation on the forum.


Sandy

I going to be a lurker for sure, my knowledge of the carbon process won't fill a thimble. I do like how they look though. ;)

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Sandy good idea. I've joined the fun!

Jim

[Jim Fitzgerald]

in here as well (have already asked my first question)

Jim. I read your question but as I only use fixed out photo paper I can not help on that one.

Jim

[Bill Kumpf]

I will be a "Lurker". Carbon printing is in my future plans. Only 8 months to retirement.

[John Bowen]

I too expect to be a lurker. Appox 15 yrs until retirement, but I would love to take a workshop with Sandy someday. I own and have read his book, but there is nothing like seeing a master at work...

[Doug Howk]

Great idea. Will get some good use from my Yahoo account.

Tried carbon last year. Plan to retry in September when temperatures in my garage/darkroom get reasonable.

[D. Bryant]

Hi,

I am starting a carbon transfer discussion group on Yanhoo.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarbronTransfer/message/1

Thanks in advance for participating. In time I hope to make this one of the premier sites on the web for information on carbon printing.

And thanks for bearing with me through my net stumbles. I know a lot more about carbon printing than web sites, forums and discussion groups.


Sandy King
Great idea Sandy, I'm 'In Like Flint'.

Don Bryant

[sanking]

Great idea Sandy, I'm 'In Like Flint'.

Don Bryant

Don,

Great, and you can put up in the gallery anything you like, regardless of capture, so long as it is a carbon transfer print.

That is what the forum is about -- we discuss carbon without the anal restrictions of type of capture or analog versus digital.

Sandy

[Don7x17]

Don,

Great, and you can put up in the gallery anything you like, regardless of capture, so long as it is a carbon transfer print.

That is what the forum is about -- we discuss carbon without the anal restrictions of type of capture or analog versus digital.

Sandy

Thanks, Sandy
I'll be joining shortly. Thanks for making a place for both film, and intermediate digital negative images...
Don

[venchka]

Don,

That is what the forum is about -- we discuss carbon without the anal restrictions of type of capture or analog versus digital.

Sandy

Won't that take all the fun out of it? :)

I'm kidding. ;)

I shall be lurking and soaking up information until such time as I can attempt to create my own carbon transfer prints.

[Drew Wiley]

Sandy - I'd be interested. Don't think I'll be doing any carbon printing anytime soon,
but might do some prelimary testing of gelatin with new process colors in the not
too distant future. Unfortunately, no place to put a serious coating machine right now.

[Greg Lockrey]

I already learned something new about the carbon process, in the Link's section Sandy has a site that has color carbon prints. WOW, touch my eyes!

[sanking]

I already learned something new about the carbon process, in the Link's section Sandy has a site that has color carbon prints. WOW, touch my eyes!


That would be Tod Gangler of Seattle. He does wonderful color carbon printing.

With time I will be adding more links to some of my favorite carbon printers. But for color, Tod is about as good as it gets.

Wish I could afford one of his editions from the Frida Kahlo series.

Sandy

[Greg Lockrey]

That would be Tod Gangler of Seattle. He does wonderful color carbon printing.

With time I will be adding more links to some of my favorite carbon printers. But for color, Tod is about as good as it gets.

Wish I could afford one of his editions from the Frida Kahlo series.

Sandy

Me too... I've been a fan of Frieda since my college days. And that's almost when MSU was still a land grant agricultural school. :D I never realized that carbon can also be made into color. I knew of dye transfer, but this is different.

I wish I could afford one of yours too. ;)

[sanking]

Sandy - I'd be interested. Don't think I'll be doing any carbon printing anytime soon,
but might do some prelimary testing of gelatin with new process colors in the not
too distant future. Unfortunately, no place to put a serious coating machine right now.

Drew,

BTW, I just got my new pellicles for the 5X7 National Fotocolor One-Shot installed on the camera. Sweating bullets on the installation this as those fellows are very expensive, and easily broken. Drop the Allen wrench on them and they might be down the drain.

As you might recall from another thread, I did a lot of color separation work in the 1980s with a view camera, but that involved three separate exposures where this only involves one.

I am pretty excited about making some new separations in the next week or so with the big one-shot camera.

Sandy

[kev curry]

.....I know I shouldn't and the rules forbid, but when I reflect on Frida... then naturally Diego, my mind turns to Trotsky and the humanity they both shared with him. A window into a new world.

[Kirk Keyes]

I know I shouldn't, but when I hear the name "Trotsky", my mind turns to the fight song of my old school, Reed College:

Marx, Stalin, Lenin, Trotsky
Reed's the team that's really hotsky!

And if that wasn't bad enough:

Hegel, Kant, Marx, Spinoza
Come on Reed, hit 'em in the nosa!

OK - I knew I shouldn't...

[benrains]

From an old resource, but perhaps still relevant because it's an old process. The Self-instructing Library of Practical Photography, Vol. 7: Carbon Printing, Commercial, Scientific, and Color Photography. Chapter XLIV, Carbon Process-

http://books.google.com/books?id=f6huAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA461#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[kev curry]

As I said... and I know I shouldn't... for obvious reasons, but...

''I have striven not to laugh at human actions, not to weep at them, nor to hate them, but to understand them''. The Great Spinoza.

To guard against derailment.... These are my last words on this all encompassing subject....

None so blind as those who will not see.

[sanking]

To guard against derailment.... These are my last words on this all encompassing subject....

None so blind as those who will not see.

To keep things on topic, the carbon prints by Tod Gangler of Frida Kahlo were made by Nikolas Muray. I believe, but stand corrected if that is not the case, that the current editions are authorized by the daughter of Muray.

For more, see http://www.worldsangha.net/frida/nickstory.html

For sure, Mexico City in the era of Rivera, Kahlo and Trotsky must have been an interesting place to live.

Sandy King

[paulr]

I'm not going to dive into this myself, but I would love to see the results. Any NYC residents joining in?

[Greg Lockrey]

To keep things on topic, the carbon prints by Tod Gangler of Frida Kahlo were made by Nikolas Muray. I believe, but stand corrected if that is not the case, that the current editions are authorized by the daughter of Muray.

For more, see http://www.worldsangha.net/frida/nickstory.html

For sure, Mexico City in the era of Rivera, Kahlo and Trotsky must have been an interesting place to live.

Sandy King

As a printer in determining my pricing a couple of factors is time and material cost. I have to wonder how many of Tod's images make it to the circular file before he gets one good enough to sell. :)

[Dave Wooten]

Good luck with the project Sandy!

Dave Wooten f64camera.

[sanking]

Good luck with the project Sandy!

Dave Wooten f64camera.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your encouragement. I made my first test exposures today.

Suffice it to say, I have a long way to go, and the road is not paved!!

Sandy

[sanking]

As a printer in determining my pricing a couple of factors is time and material cost. I have to wonder how many of Tod's images make it to the circular file before he gets one good enough to sell. :)

Interesting question.

I would guess, and it is only a guess, that Tod's hit rate is fairly high, 50% or higher. He is a meticulous worker and has fantastic control of the process. In fact, because of modern technology his control of color carbon is probably greater than that of any color carbon printer in history.

Sandy King

[D. Bryant]

To keep things on topic, the carbon prints by Tod Gangler of Frida Kahlo were made by Nikolas Muray. I believe, but stand corrected if that is not the case, that the current editions are authorized by the daughter of Muray.

For more, see http://www.worldsangha.net/frida/nickstory.html

For sure, Mexico City in the era of Rivera, Kahlo and Trotsky must have been an interesting place to live.

Sandy King

Try this link:

http://nickolasmuray.com/

[Jay DeFehr]

I was lucky to see Tod's prints, and to watch him make some. Beyond impressive and highly inspiring.

[DarkroomDan]

For those interested in Tod Gangler's color carbon work, he has agreed to take part in the Alt-Photo Pacifica Symposium that will take place this coming October in Bellevue, Washington. Tod will be showing and talking about some of his work. I will post more information about the symposium as the date gets closer.

I have been to his studio, Art and Soul, in Seattle's Ballard neighborhood and got to see several pieces of his work and talk with him some about his process. I also saw the Frida series at the Tacoma Art Museum a few years ago. Tod's work is incredible. The closest thing I can think of that is similar in impact might be a large format Kodachrome 25. These are 3 and 4 color prints in custom mixed pigments printed up to 24"x30". Each matrix is transferred to a master support and then the completed master is transferred to a sheet of watercolor paper. The opportunities to screw up are, shall we say, ample. Tod does the whole process himself except he sends his separation files for his negatives out to be printed on an imagesetter.

If you are interested, you can learn more about his work on youtube (do a search for his name - there are several short films that follow him through making a print). Also check out his site http://www.colorcarbonprint.com/

Dan

[bob carnie]

John Bentley here in toronto does Colour carbon work as well and it is very good. John and Todd are very good friends and both have pushed the envelope with their work.
There is a Sarah Moon show now in New York that I believe Todd printed.

[Jay DeFehr]

John Bentley here in toronto does Colour carbon work as well and it is very good. John and Todd are very good friends and both have pushed the envelope with their work.
There is a Sarah Moon show now in New York that I believe Todd printed.

Yes, those are the prints I watched Tod make. Beautiful.

[DarkroomDan]

Bob,

Do you have a link to some of John Bentley's work. I would love to see it. I tried Google and came up with a lot of people by that name but wasn't able to locate the right one.

Dan

[bob carnie]

John Bladen Bentley you may try Beckett Gallery, there is not much out there on John's work, not a recluse by any standards but not really up on the marketing of his work.
www.beckettfineart.com

I first met John on a side of a mountain, I was a chockerman and he was my rigging slinger on a high lead logging site.
Twenty years later we met up in Toronto , he was a commercial photographer and I was just starting my lab.
I took a course at Maine Photo workshop on this process, at that time to control the whole process one needed a scanner and output device which
was way beyond my budget- we are talking 1994 and scanners were not available other than in big pre press shops.
Both Todd and John became good friends with Charles Bergger the originator (who by the way still posts on APUG as CMB ) These two single handily kept the process alive in NA and both should be recognized for their efforts.

I too hope to work with this process, I am not totally sure I want to go the full colour route , but maybe the duotone and tritone route of using the channels to create
and effect with other processes. I am first and formost a silver printer and mixing in a bit of colour would be nice. Carbon likes silver gelatin emulsions.

One needs a hard dot negative to make this process work repeatably and accuratley for colour fidelity and Todd and John have that nailed.
I have a device that can give me a con tone negative and I am willing for a bit of unpredictability in my work.
This process may or may not survive , a lot depends if these two educate younger workers on how to pre sensitize the emulsions and putting it all together.






Bob,

Do you have a link to some of John Bentley's work. I would love to see it. I tried Google and came up with a lot of people by that name but wasn't able to locate the right one.

Dan

[bob carnie]

Dan - you should try to bring John out for that as well , his work is outstanding.


For those interested in Tod Gangler's color carbon work, he has agreed to take part in the Alt-Photo Pacifica Symposium that will take place this coming October in Bellevue, Washington. Tod will be showing and talking about some of his work. I will post more information about the symposium as the date gets closer.

I have been to his studio, Art and Soul, in Seattle's Ballard neighborhood and got to see several pieces of his work and talk with him some about his process. I also saw the Frida series at the Tacoma Art Museum a few years ago. Tod's work is incredible. The closest thing I can think of that is similar in impact might be a large format Kodachrome 25. These are 3 and 4 color prints in custom mixed pigments printed up to 24"x30". Each matrix is transferred to a master support and then the completed master is transferred to a sheet of watercolor paper. The opportunities to screw up are, shall we say, ample. Tod does the whole process himself except he sends his separation files for his negatives out to be printed on an imagesetter.

If you are interested, you can learn more about his work on youtube (do a search for his name - there are several short films that follow him through making a print). Also check out his site http://www.colorcarbonprint.com/

Dan

[sanking]

Dan - you should try to bring John out for that as well , his work is outstanding.

I published an article on color carbon printing in Silvershotz a few years ago. There is some history, and a brief account of the working procedures of several color carbon printers, including Gangler and Bentley. I am attaching the text of the article. Things don't change fast in this world so most of the information in the article is still valid.

Sandy

[bob carnie]

I should also mention I have seen a couple of wonderful colour carbon prints Sandy made that are hanging in his livingroom. Correct me if I am wrong Sandy but I think you did them in the 80's which would be a full 10 years before Todd and John.

[sanking]

I should also mention I have seen a couple of wonderful colour carbon prints Sandy made that are hanging in his livingroom. Correct me if I am wrong Sandy but I think you did them in the 80's which would be a full 10 years before Todd and John.

Bob,

That is correct. I made those color carbon prints in the early 1980s. That was in the day of purely analog working methods, which is to say I started with either color transparencies which were then separated on pan film in the darkroom, or in some cases I made three-color separations directly in the camera, which were sometimes printed directly, or on some cases I made enlarged separations. It was tedious work, but I had a lot of fun doing it.

My color carbon prints have not faded, even with a history of hanging in a room that received a lot of afternoon sun, some of it directly on the prints.

Sandy

[mdm]

John Bladen Bentley you may try Beckett Gallery, there is not much out there on John's work, not a recluse by any standards but not really up on the marketing of his work.
www.beckettfineart.com



Thank you for that link, I like his colour carbons a lot.

[DarkroomDan]

Bob - Thank you for the link. I haven't gone there yet but will this evening when I have time to really look at what is there. Your suggestion that we invite John to speak at the symposium is good. It would be great to have both Tod and John as speakers but the schedule was finalized a few months ago and I would not be able to change it now. I'm not running the thing; I am a member of one of the organizing committees.

Sandy - thank you for the file - much appreciated.

Dan