Lubrication for Sinar P?

[bensonga]

Hi folks,

I just purchased and received the Sinar P (4x5) which Robert Fisher sold here in May to another forum member. The camera is indeed in beautiful condition, just as Robert and Don said. It is nonetheless, 23+ years old. I can see what appears to be a brownish residue on the white serrated gear parts which I'm guessing may be old, dried grease/lubricant. While all of the movements are smooth, some are perhaps a bit stiffer than ideal. So I am thinking about cleaning off the dried up grease and applying a VERY LIGHT coating of lubricant. Does anyone have suggestions on what type of lubricant would be best for this camera/use?

I'm really looking forward to getting out and using the Sinar....it's a beauty!

Thanks in advance,

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska

[Archphoto]

Congrad's with your Sinar, the camera will last you a life time !

Grease: a lithium based synthetic grease.
Oil (but not for the part you describe) a synthetic clock-oil.

Available at www.micro-tools.com (http://www.micro-tools.com)

If you live near an airport and are friendly with the aircraft maintenance people ask them for Mobil Grease 28 or Mobilith SHC 460.
That grease lasts for at least 10 years and it safe for both the nylon as the aluminium.

Peter

[Sevo]

Mid viscosity silicone grease, for use on plastics. I use the stuff left over from Saeco espresso machine maintenance kits, as I wear out two espresso machine seals per tube of grease, so that I end up with a free 5-10g each year. It is food-safe (which some white lithium greases positively aren't), and given its purpose it must be very safe on PE, ABS and synthetic rubber in a hot and aggressive environment, while the degree of plastics compatibility is unspecified for many other more easily obtainable silicone greases.

Sevo

[Jim Michael]

There is a comment in the Sinar maintenance manual that oil should be applied with a brush, not dispensed from an oil can.

Aircraft Spruce has the grease that Peter mentioned http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/mobilGrease28.php

[Ken Lee]

Thanks a ton ! Mine old Sinar P needs a little lubrication.

[Mark Woods]

So does mine! Thanks guys.

MW

[Archphoto]

Apply with a brush and/or put it onto a surringe with a thick needle to get it where you want it.
I have been using Mobil Grease 28 since 1980.
It can be used for tripods, threads, nearly everywhere exept for the foodstuff.

Peter

[bensonga]

Mid viscosity silicone grease, for use on plastics.
Sevo

I wonder if something like the Abu Garcia Reel Lube (silicone grease with PTFE) would be safe to use. It's used to lubricate the gears of fishing reels, many of which include white plastic gear wheels which look alot like the material used in the Sinar. Much easier for me to find locally....and a small one oz. tube only costs $1.99.

Gary
Alaska

[Archphoto]

It is a thought.....
Mind you that Abu is used inside a reel, this would be applied to a part that is in the open air, I am thinking about aging here.....
I would give it a try !

Peter

[Sevo]

I wonder if something like the Abu Garcia Reel Lube (silicone grease with PTFE) would be safe to use. It's used to lubricate the gears of fishing reels, many of which include white plastic gear wheels which look alot like the material used in the Sinar.

Anything intended for Nylon gears inside ABS and aluminium casings is bound to be sinar safe, the sinars being made from nothing else. I'd expect fishing reel lube to be pretty generally modern camera safe - but watch out, old (or retro) cameras are very different, don't use silicone greases near wood, leather and celluloid.

Sevo

[redbird]

hmm... do you think those safe lithium grease products might be bought locally, I mean would a jewelry story be likely to have the grease or perhaps a local hardware store? My camera is an old, heavily used deardorff that keep cranking along anyway but reading this post I'd like to give it better care.:)

[Archphoto]

You could give it a try, if you use it on metal only it could no do harm.
You will have to check the Yellow Pages and make a few calls.

Micro-tools (http://www.micro-tools.com) has all of that and a lot more available.
Basicly anything used in clock/watches repair can be used in camera repair aswell.
The same oils, the same greases, as long as you use lubricants that have extreme low gassing, esp. in shutters.

Peter

[bensonga]

I tried a small amount of the Abu Garcia Reel Lube (silicone grease) with a small artist's brush on the front standard focus parts (white plastic rails etc). The focus had been stiff, but smooth. After applying this grease it was stiff and sticky. So I removed all the grease and it's about like it was before. Tried a little of the Abu Garcia Reel Oil and it wasn't any better, so I removed all of that. Looks like I'll try to find the Mobil lithium grease mentioned above. I wonder if this isn't so much a lubrication issue as some tension adjustment that is set a little too tight. I'll have a look at the service manual pdf.

Gary
Alaska

[Archphoto]

Dear Garry,

Just applying grease to the gears will not solve that problem.

You will have to clean the guiding-rails with lighterflued or so and work all the old grease out by moving the standard up and down in it's block.

Then you put the standard in the extreme position and apply grease to the guide-rails.
Move up and down a couple of times, so you get an even film of grease over them.
Wipe off any excess grease afterwards.

If that does not work, the "brake" inside the geared knob is a tad too stiff.....
I use 8x10 blocks front and aft and when I use the 4x5 frame on them the blocks are a bit stiff: they have to be as they are setup for the bigger and heavier 8x10 frame aswell without sliding downward.

One problem I had with the plasic/nylon gear-rails that I lost some "teath" , I replaced it with a bronze/copper one.

Peter

[Sevo]

You'll have to clean out the old gunk - usually, the old grease has hardened and filled in all the slippage space in the gearing rails, and once you add new grease things do get tight.

Sevo

[Nathan Potter]

I've used silicone high vacuum grease from Dow Corning for years on view camera gears including what I assume to be nylon gears, all without difficulty. It is or course very low vapor pressure so stays decently in place in the hot sun. Old grease should be thoroughly removed though with a solvent.

Nate Potter, Washington DC.

[rdenney]

Remember that grease is just oil that has been emulsified in a soap. When the oil evaporates (as it eventually does), the soap is left over. That's the heard stuff. It must be removed before anything will work very well.

Lighter fluid makes it seem good again, but unless you mechanically remove the old grease, it won't last. The lighter fluid won't wash anything away, and after it evaporates, the old soap curds will be still be there. There are spray degreasers that will wash it away, but it's probably better to mechanically clean it off with rags and brushes, using the lighter fluid as a solvent.

For camera stuff that requires grease instead of oil, I use the lightest stuff I can find. Any white lithium grease will work fine if it's not too heavy. Less is more. Too much lubricant attracts dirt and grid and promotes wear. Many of the plastics used actually provide a bit of self-lubrication.

Rick "who applies clock oil with a applicator that sucks back nearly all of the applied oil, leaving only a light film" Denney

[lecarp]

There are Teflon based dry lubricants sold for use on nylon, delrin, aluminum tracks etc. on sailboats. They lube well and do not gum up, might be worth a try. Available from boating suppliers like West marine and Boat U.S.

[Mark Woods]

Model rail roaders use teflon based lubrication all of the time. And hobby store that sells model rail road materials should have it. Here's a link to Walthers: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/430-106

MW

[Thalmees]

Sorry to bring this thread up again.
Have one question:
What about the oil of car engine ? for lubricating lockers of the format frame and bearers gear ?
Thanks.

[Jim Michael]

You are lubricating a piece of fine machinery with close tolerances. You can get away with using incorrect lubricants, but over time some damage or wear may result that might not have otherwise. Therefore, if you can, use the best lubricants you can find that are of the type (e.g. viscosity and composition) recommended by the manufacturer.

[Thalmees]

You are lubricating a piece of fine machinery with close tolerances. You can get away with using incorrect lubricants, but over time some damage or wear may result that might not have otherwise. Therefore, if you can, use the best lubricants you can find that are of the type (e.g. viscosity and composition) recommended by the manufacturer.
Thanks Jim.
Wondering what’s the adverse/bad effect of car engine oil on Sinar lockers and gear.
I do not think it contains corrosive substances.
Thanks so much.

[rdenney]

Thanks Jim.
Wondering what’s the adverse/bad effect of car engine oil on Sinar lockers and gear.
I do not think it contains corrosive substances.
Thanks so much.

But it does contain a lot of detergent and anti-foaming additives you don't need. And it's designed for a closed system and therefore it is not designed to minimized evaporation. For oil lubrication of camera parts, which occurs very rarely, I use a synthetic light machine oil like Nyoil, or Kano Labs's instrumentation oil. These are designed for low evaporation, and have low paraffin content, which can turn solid over time.

For gears, I would prefer a synthetic grease, and that's what I see specified in the Sinar repair manuals for my F.

Rick "observing that some plastics used by Sinar can be attacked by some solvents, and would therefore be leery of detergent additives" Denney

[Thalmees]

But it does contain a lot of detergent and anti-foaming additives you don't need. And it's designed for a closed system and therefore it is not designed to minimized evaporation. For oil lubrication of camera parts, which occurs very rarely, I use a synthetic light machine oil like Nyoil, or Kano Labs's instrumentation oil. These are designed for low evaporation, and have low paraffin content, which can turn solid over time.
For gears, I would prefer a synthetic grease, and that's what I see specified in the Sinar repair manuals for my F.
Rick "observing that some plastics used by Sinar can be attacked by some solvents, and would therefore be leery of detergent additives" Denney

Hi Rick,
Great help I found in your posts and other posters here.
Your Quotation marks always sending a very useful precise messages.
Thanks soooooooooo much.