Tripod Head (Manfrotto 410 or Giottos MH3300)

[James Rose]

Trying to decide between the two heads for a wista 45SP and a Gitzo 1327 tripod. Gear head or Ball head? Thanks

[keeds]

Manfrotto 410. Used to use a ball head for MF and 4x5. Just got the 410 and it's makes a world of difference.

[Peter De Smidt]

Ball heads are lighter and faster to get rough focus. Gear heads are more precise. If you shoot a lot of architecture, I'd get the 410. Also check out the 405. (I have the latter. It works great with a Toyo AX.)

[Gem Singer]

I have used both types of tripod heads.

Found that with a ball head, it was slightly more difficult to level both the vertical and the horizontal planes at the same time. A "bulls eye" spirit level helped, but did not entirely solve the problem

The geared head allows precise leveling of one plane without loosing the setting for the other plane when using a two-way spirit level.

[Archphoto]

I replaced my Manfrotto 804RC2 head with the 410 and never looked back.
The 410 is a joy esp with architecture and can handle a folding 4x5 with ease.
Manfrotto states "Junior" ....... nothing small about it.


Peter

[Peter De Smidt]

I agree with Gem. And even with the very best ball heads, which can be remarkably smooth once you're moving the camera, there is initial resistance when starting to change the camera position. This can be frustrating when you just need to nudge the camera a tiny bit. To overcome that initial resistance, one has to apply enough force that the camera often moves much farther than desired.

[Walter Calahan]

Ball heads drive me nuts on LF. Love ball heads for smaller formats. Don't get a ball head for LF. Too frustrating to level.

[Joanna Carter]

Yet another vote for the 410. It's just so easy to set up when compared with balancing a camera in three dimensions whilst locking off the head.

[Stephen Lewis]

I'm a dyed in the wool 410 fan. Tried one of Manfrotto's ball heads (468MGRC4) for about 3 months last year because of a recommendation. Totally frustrating :mad:

[kev curry]

You should consider entering into negotiations with the seller of the Linhof 3 way levelling head that's currently in the for sale section before parting with your cash. I was all set at one time to buy a 410 head until I saw the size of it in person...it's a pretty substantial chunk of metal and not for the faint hearted.
The linhof head on the other hand is small, solid, light, precise, very compact, and fabulous to work with...its worth some serious consideration if your in the US/Can.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=48829

[Kevin Crisp]

I thought I was a ball head hater and then I tried the Acratech head. Yes, there is some inconvenience on leveling that you get used to. It locks up solid even with an 8X10. It saves a pound of weight and shortens the tripod. I've been happy with it. The 410 is a great head too, and I use it when I don't mind the weight.

[Kirk Gittings]

I replaced my Manfrotto 804RC2 head with the 410 and never looked back.
The 410 is a joy esp with architecture and can handle a folding 4x5 with ease.
Manfrotto states "Junior" ....... nothing small about it.
Peter

"Ball heads are lighter and faster to get rough focus" ? I think you meant rough framing?

I agree completely, following the same path. I use the 410 for all my architecture work including DSLR. The only limitation is not being able to point the camera radically upward, a very very rare issue. I do use a ball head on my lightweight field tripod, but miss always miss the deliberateness of the 410.

[Peter De Smidt]

Hi Kirk,

You're right. Sorry for the mistake. I also mistook the 405 and 410. I have the 410. It's the smaller one. Yep, when going straight up one need to flip the camera 180*.

[Archphoto]

@ Kev, about that Linhof 3 way head: Long ago it had a bigger brother.... I got that one for my Sinar P2 8x10.
Sorry no pic's of it and NOT for sale either.

Peter

[kev curry]

Every days a school day Peter:)

[Archphoto]

Actualy, it is a rarety, 2 were only sold in Holland and the head was only made for about 2 or 3 years.
It is the heaviest 3 way head I have ever seen, like 2 Sinar heads bolted together with 2 panoramic movements.
I'll be back in Holland by the end of June and will make some pic's of it.

Peter

[Dave Hally]

I have a 410 and love it, except for one thing. It doesn't point up very well. I had to reverse the camera on it quick release mount to get more vertical shots in Antelope Canyon last week. It worked, but all the gears were on the wrong side of the camera, just akward.
Dave

[Archphoto]

You will have the same problem with a 3D head aswell, I am afraid.
Never noticed it on the 410 because I don't use it that way.
For level shots it is great, if you want akward positions a ball head might serve you better at times: shooting birds or the stars.

Peter

[Brian Ellis]

I like ball heads with any camera up to 4x5. I used an Arca Swiss B1 for years with 35mm and 6x7 and now use a Really Right Stuff ball head with my digital camera. But for 4x5, and especially larger, I don't care for them. Using a ball head with a 4x5+ camera just becomes an exercise in frustration for me when I'm trying to get everything lined up correctly and can't independently control front, back, and side to side movements.

For 4x5 I've used the 410 for years. It's almost indispensable if you're going to be doing a lot of architectural work because you need to make such fine adjustments when, for example, you're trying to get things perfectly squared up. And since I don't want to switch heads back and forth, I also use it for landscape even though for that kind of work a standard pan/tilt head would usually work as well.

[AJ Edmondson]

Another vote for the 410!!! It really facilitates the process of setting up, level adjustment and framing. I have been completely satisfied with mine and only wonder why I waited so long to switch.

[kaiyen]

any drawbacks to the cork QR plate? Just checking. I see they now have the new rubbery one instead.

[Archphoto]

Not that I know of, Linhof used even leather for it.
If the corks starts to crumble away you can always get a rubber replacement part.

Peter

[Archphoto]

Just to give an idea about the real size of this head a shot of it together with my Rolleiflex 2.8F.

Peter

[Patrick Dixon]

That's huge. I'm totally put off!

[Archphoto]

But it works !!!!!

I even use it for my shots with a DSLR and heavy wide angle for archictectural shots.

Peter

[Patrick Dixon]

I'm sure a Tiger tank turret would work too, but I aint carrying one of those around with me either!

[Archphoto]

Actualy I carry the 410 together with a Manfrotto 055XDB on my back while driving my motorbike.
On a tripod it looks a lot smaller and do not forget: this head is suited for a RB67 and a not too heavy monorail.
If you want stability that's what you will get !

Peter

PS At the first time I put my hands on it I thought: "Oeps" , but after working with it for a half a year now I would not trade it in for any other head.

[mandoman7]

The picture with the rollei does give the impression the 410 is large but I'm not sure it really is any larger than something else that gives comparable amounts of control. It does weigh almost as much as the carbon fiber tripod I have it mounted on, but I'm really liking the combination. The advantage of being able to make small adjustments easily is huge with tripod usage, and this head really handles that need. Its not recommended, but I've use this head with 8x10 and it worked fine.

Perhaps its been mentioned, but one thing I really like is that you don't tighten or loosen a knob but turn the gear, which will not move unless turned. That means your monorail won't fly foward and jam your fingers when you pick the tripod up , as has happened many times with the conventional variety when you've left the levers slightly loose for adjustments. You know what I mean?

[Turner Reich]

I was afraid that the 410 was going to be a small lightweight model that would barely hold up a small camera when I bought one over a year ago. It in fact will hold my 5x7 and is a joy to use and easy. I use it on a wood tripod and it's a match made in heaven. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one.

[Patrick Dixon]

So what would be the panel's suggestion for something possibly a bit more compromised but much smaller and lighter?

I'm leaning toward the idea of no head and levelling using the tripod legs, but there must be other options not involving wooden tripods with a kilo and a half of metal on top.

[Archphoto]

Dear Patrick, do have a try to level a 4x5 with the legs of your tripod: it will cure you for ever !
With a geared head you can level any camera more presize a lot easier and faster.
The adjustments you can make with a geared head are so small and so deliberate.
I guess you have to try first before you start apreciating geared heads.

Peter

[Patrick Dixon]

Peter, I have and it's not so difficult.

It's not that I don't appreciate (the idea) of geared heads, I just don't want to lug one around with me (I'd rather carry my Rollei).

[Jeff Keller]

Both Manfrotto and Gitzo have made leveling bases which have about 15 degrees of adjustability. They have the locking mechanism in a tube that looks like the center column of a tripod. The column (doesn't raise) should give plenty of leverage to make fine adjustments. RRS used to sell the Manfrotto versions but it looks like they only have the Gitzo which has a shorter column. A ball head could be mounted on top of it giving rapid wide adjustment if that was also needed.
http://reallyrightstuff.com/tripods/06.html

I have one of the Manfrotto versions but was never willing to pop the key out of my Gitzo tripod so that I could use it. I've since switched to a heavier tripod.

PhotoClam makes a copy of the Arca Swiss Cube. It appears that patent infringement prevents them from marketing it in the US. It may still be available directly from them.

Jeff Keller


So what would be the panel's suggestion for something possibly a bit more compromised but much smaller and lighter?

I'm leaning toward the idea of no head and levelling using the tripod legs, but there must be other options not involving wooden tripods with a kilo and a half of metal on top.

[Bob Salomon]

Linhof also makes a very compact 15° leveling head as well as a 3-way leveling head.