Underwater Tripod?

[John Berard]

Okay, not really underwater, but I am heading to the Everglades and want to shoot in water up to about three feet deep. I know Clyde Butcher does this all the time and I have been to his site but no real details there. I have a Gitzo 1325 but am concerned about the water getting into the carbon fiber legs and then not able to get out. Plus, I am not sure that the Gitzo is solid enough for my new camera. Sand particles also are a concern in the leg twist clamps.

I don't plan on backpacking too far so i am not so concerned about weight. I will be using a Silvestri Bicam with Maxibellows, sliding back and a Leaf 22. I don't mind over-kill as I plan on getting a real LF in the future. I thought about a wood tripod because the water obviously cannot get trapped. But will the wood have an adverse reaction to salt/brackish water? I would be drawn to a simple system. All constructive ideas are welcome.

John

[Gem Singer]

Take a look at the Benbo line of tripods. The bottom section is impervious to water.

Sounds like the Benbo would do the job that you described.

[Eric James]

I've had my Gitzo CF tripods in the water numerous times. I won't say that I don't hesitate to dunk them past a joint, but I don't worry about harming the tripod. Have you disassembled your 1325 before? - it's not too hard. Just plan to spend 15-30 minutes to take apart the legs and dry things out after you've finished shooting. (If you do this at home I would say that it's best to let the dissassembled parts dry overnight before putting them back together.) Most of the water can be removed with a cotton cloth or paper towel, and a few hard slaps of the leg pieces in the hand. If I were you I would rinse off the brackish water with fresh before starting the cleaning and drying process. The most difficult part of reassembly comes when nesting the plastic C-ring into position - I've found it easier if I don't swap parts between legs and if I maintain the orientation of the black plastic C-rings. The newer tripods are actually more troublesome in this regard. Also, the newer tripods can freeze up with some types of silt. Once the silt is completely dry the leg will come apart, but that can take a few days. I've never had this happen with my 1325. Finally, if you disassemble, clean and dry your tripod often enough you might want to replace the lubricant on the treads. I've used Phil Wood bicycle grease in the green tube - works great.

http://www.naturescapes.net/082004/gd0804.htm

[Gary Beasley]

I've read in articles by or about Butcher that he will set the tripod up with weights where he wants to shoot and allow it to settle for 24 hours before mounting his camera up and taking a shot.
If you haven't done the research you might want to before the trip to be sure of a successful shoot, I'd hate to see your camera get dunked as a tripod leg sank into the muck.

[Bill_1856]

Whatever you do, don't put a wood tripod into the water.
I once asked Clyde about his tripod, and he indicated that it was a surveyer's tripod adapted to photographic use. He didn't recall the maker.

[Bill_1856]

He also uses a Benbo and a Sanford & Davis.
http://www.clydebutcher.com/technical-info.cfm

[eric black]

For wet/relatively deep overwater situations, get some PVC pipe to fit around the bottom section of your tripod and add some height-get the thick stuff for pressure applications, not the thin drain line stuff. It requires some care (due to vibration etc...) but works well if care is taken and you are not dealing with wind or other forces that will cause movement.

[Ed Richards]

This looks like just the thing. 91 inches tall, fiberglass, and with the surveyor's feet it should be more stable in the muck:

http://www.surveysupplies.biz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_61&products_id=275

Not cheap, but cheaper than a Gitzo and no parts to get water in.

That said, have you ever spent much time in the muck in swamps? Clyde is terrific and has really cultivated the swamp mystique. Doesn't mean that is the only way to do it.

If I were doing it, I would shoot that stuff on Tmax 400 with a Technika, handheld. Except for the biggest prints, you would not see any difference. You are not going to be using movements much, if at all. I would slap that back on an MF camera and shoot hand held, there is plenty of light for short exposures. My guess is that you would get much better shots shooting with a handheld MF camera with the Leaf because you would get about 100x as many shots as you would sinking a tripod in the muck. Did I mention leaches and snakes? Gators? Being a Louisiana boy, I take swamps seriously.

[John Berard]

Gem - I will consider the Benbo. It does look good for a wet environment but I am not sure about that strange mast it has.

Eric - Thanks for the advice about the Gitzo. However, I would prefer not to tear apart the tripod at the end of each day on such a long trip. That is exactly why I am looking for an alternative.

Gary - Very interesting about the weights and giving time to settle. I will need to further train myself in patience! Good advice. Thanks.

Bill - I am convinced you are absolutely correct in stating a wood tripod would not do well in water. Looking a most of the designs of wooden tripods, it is obvious that any swelling of the wood would bind the leg movements. A surveyor's tripod might be a good alternative. I have noticed however that most of them only collapse down to about 48 inches. Maybe not so bad.

Eric - Interesting solution you suggest. Have you tried this? It would work good I presume where there is no water movement. I am not keen however on having so many components to carry and setup. But thank you very much.

Ed - I agree that the surveyor's tripod may be a good solution. They can actually be acquired for little money. I believe even Home Depot has them.

I hear you loud and clear about the handheld approach but my style of composition requires movements quite frequently. I tend to shoot very high or very low with a foreground object sometime just inches away from the lens. I could not do it and have near and far sharpness without them. Also I like to shoot during rain storms with lightning so a long exposure of usually 20 seconds or so is required to capture the flash.

>>Did I mention leaches and snakes? Gators? Being a Louisiana boy, I take swamps seriously.<< I take it serious also since I live in Florida with snakes and gators coming right up to my sea wall. I live on Merritt Island and frequent Tossohatchee, Mosquitoe Lagoon, St. Johns River and other such nasty places. I have trained one eye to compose my pictures while the other eye is looking around for evil creatures. :eek:

Thanks to all for the good advice.

John

[John Schneider]

This looks like just the thing. 91 inches tall, fiberglass, and with the surveyor's feet it should be more stable in the muck:

http://www.surveysupplies.biz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_61&products_id=275

Not cheap, but cheaper than a Gitzo and no parts to get water in.

Similar mil-surplus surveyors tripods can be had reasonably cheap:
http://www.deutscheoptik.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=tripod&osCsid=7eb92f7522a9c6ec85ad6b795c9da8aa&x=0&y=0

[Paul O]

What about the new Gitzo designed for surfing photographers? Apparently specially coated and lots of stainless steel?? VERY EXPENSIVE ... £750 GBP :eek:

[jp]

I have used my Leitz Tiltall in the ocean. It's aluminum and could corrode if not cared for afterwards, but it disassembles completely for easy cleaning. You could leave it in a bathtub of clean water for a couple hours if you really wanted to make sure it was salt free.

[Ed Richards]

John,

Glad to hear you are not some desert guy looking for swamp thrills.:-) I can just see the thread now - Gator got my Camera!

I was recommending the extra tall tripod because you may be sinking the legs a foot or two down into the muck before it is stable. With the usual 5 footers that would not leave you much out of the water, if at all.

[peterjnolan]

In my experience, a wood tripod is fine in the water. Most of my photography is done in Big Cypress in standing water of various depths and my Berlebach is fine after 2 years of use. One of the problems I had with my aluminum Manfrotto 'pod is that the legs filled up with water during a set-up and then would invariably leak out when I put the 'pod over my shoulder to continue hiking.

If you are shooting in the Everglades or Big Cypress and plan on wading to your locations, you might consider and over the shoulder bag to carry your gear. Don't forget heavy duty ziplocks bags for downpours. Right now it's dry, but that will change soon.

--Peter
www.peterjnolan.com (http://www.peterjnolan.com)

[John Berard]

John,

Glad to hear you are not some desert guy looking for swamp thrills.:-) I can just see the thread now - Gator got my Camera!

I was recommending the extra tall tripod because you may be sinking the legs a foot or two down into the muck before it is stable. With the usual 5 footers that would not leave you much out of the water, if at all.

Ed, if a big gator or croc is coming after me, I would not hesitate shoving my Silvestri down his throat. And you never know, I might be the first to have a LF image of a Gator's tonsils up close and personal. :rolleyes: I agree about the tall pod. Thanks again, John.

[John Brady]

Almost all of my photography is done standing in the water. I like the way it puts the viewer into the scene in ways they won't do on their own.

Clyde likes to use the benbo, but almost any tripod will work. I use a gitzo carbon fiber and a berlbach (sp?) when I shoot in the glades. For faster moving water the wood belbach works nicely because it doesn't vibrate as much and it is very sturdy.
When you get done for the day just rinse with fresh water. The bottom of the new gitzo legs have feet that unscrew and make it quite easy to rinse.

Today I was shooting in the Ten Thousand Islands, I use the same procedure as above even though its salt water.

The biggest trick for photographing in the everglades is getting the exposure right and controlling the contrast.

www.evergladesgallery.com

[John Berard]

Peter and John,

You guys are scaring me now. I saw your pictures of standing in very deep water in the Glades and I don't mind saying you both appear a bit crazy to me. I figure that if a gator or croc came after me in fairly shallow water, I at least have a chance of propelling myself out of harms way. But in waist or chest deep water, anybody would become gator dung! :( Makes me wonder how many wannabe Glades photographers have disappeared never to be seen again.

Wouldn't it be possible in deep water to use a flat bottomed John's boat by setting the tripod in the water and keep my valuable (to me) body high and dry? Maybe even a plywood deck on it so one could lay flat and low for focusing.

I apologize for getting a little off topic.

John

[John Brady]

Some rock climb, others sky dive, some even make a daily commute in LA. My photography is pretty tame by comparison. The picture above was just for a laugh, I had to get on my knees to get that low. The water was freezing because it was January. Here is the after shot.

The next image is one I made using the staying in the boat method you describe. This method always scares me worse than swimming with gators. The boat always moves and one wrong tap of the boat and lots of expensive equipment takes a swim. The only time I employ this method is when there is no other choice. In this image from lake Istokpoga there was about three feet of muck and the water was over three feet. Some times when the water is really deep I use a step ladder as a tripod with my ball head mounted on the top. Thats scarier than standing in the water too.
www.gladesgallery.com

[Bill_1856]

There are no CROCKS in the Everglades. Just Gators and Cottonmouths.

[Dan Fromm]

Re Bill_1856's comment, just now there's very little water in Big Cypress. I was at the Clearwater Strand where it crosses the Loop Road this Monday. No water, no gators, no wading birds. Did see three otters ramble down the road shortly after dawn, though.

[John Brady]

There are no CROCKS in the Everglades. Just Gators and Cottonmouths.
Actually I have see a couple of crocodiles in the everglades. the last one I saw was in the Collier Seminole State Park. He was in brackish water. So even though you won't find them in the fresh water grassy areas they are still in the region. For the record they scare me way more then the gators.

I think I read somewhere that the Everglades is the only place on earth where crocks and gators co-exist.
www.gladesgallery.com

[John Berard]

This is very good info about crocks in Florida:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot0_7xBmRjI

John

[Bill_1856]

Okay, so I was wrong. At least out of date -- was always told that there were Crocks only in the Keys, not in the Glades. Sorry.
Oh yeah, I guess there are Anacondas, etc, there too, since Andrew.
Oh Jesus, I think I'll just stay home. :-)

[Carsten Wolff]

a) As mentioned before almost any tripod can be used in water as long as you can take it apart and rinse/dry it afterwards ok. I've used a Manfrotto/Bogen 055 in Antarctica in 2001/2002 underwater (even upside down under sea-ice)..... It is still my main general tripod.
b) No need to be so scared of alligators (even crocs ain't crocs either), just have respect, read up on some facts/how to conduct yourself in their habitats and on the psychological front maybe avoid watching JAWS, or Rogue, or Lake Placid the night before ;)....