Scanning paper negatives

[Flexnib]

Helllo All,
Just received my Epson 4990 and have started to try to scan paper negs. I am having no luck. Anyone out there doing this? Please help. Any help on where and how to start would be helpful. I know it is alot to ask but any help at all would be appreciated.
Arthur

[Gene McCluney]

You should scan them as prints..in reflective mode. Then invert in photoshop.

[russyoung]

Ah, Gene, but then you loose the wonderful softness imparted by the paper fibers as the light passes through them, which for me, is one reason to shoot paper negs.

This may be wrong, but a limited experiment of mine about a decade ago seemed to show much less tonality when scanned that way. A paper negative that may be so black as to show no tonal separation whatsoever when viewed by reflected light may be rich in detail when viewed by transmitted light (learned this looking at early calotypes).

Made a scan with my old Microtek scanner by reflected light and then a darkroom silver gelatin contact print. There was simply no comparison in terms of tonality.

Russ

[sanking]

The main problem with scanning paper negatives is that the base of the paper itself has a very high minimum distance, about log .09 or more. When you add this to the denisty of the area of maximum transmission density of the paper negative you get a density that is too high for some consumer flatbeds to handle.

You might consider oiling the negative as this will increase light transmission. This is a trick that was practiced widely in the days of Pictorialism when the use of paper negatives was common.

I agree with Russ that there are some desirable print qualities that result from the paper fiber itself which would be loss with a reflection scan.

Sandy King

[jnantz]

hi russ

it is interesting how you are describing paper negatives.
i feel the same way ...

[Jim Noel]

I'm with Sandy. Since you have invested in this particular scanner, oil the back of the paper negative. Use mineral oil so it will not become rancid. after oiling wait several minutes to an hour and wipe away all the excess.
Not long ago I printed a paper negative (calotype) from the 1840's. It had been oiled and was amazingly transparent.
Note that oiling does take away some of the texture of the paper.

[Flexnib]

I use RC paper for my negs. so will the oiling work? Or is the oil best with FB paper negs? Would I place anything on top of the negative to protect the roof of the scanner door?
Arthur

[jnantz]

arthur

i don't think it would make much of a difference
oiling a rc negative. the oil penetrates the paper
(think greasy bag of french fries ) ..
rc paper has a plasticy resin on it, that doesn't allow water to penetrate
( that is why it was developed so it would dry faster / handle easier )
..
you shouldn't really have trouble scanning the image as a print, and as gene suggests
inverting it. what scan-software are you using ?

i regularly scan paper negatives. i use epson scan. preview, box around the image area then scan ...
if the image is too dark or light ( dense or thin ) you will have problems if you aren't
used to tweaking your levels and contrast in photoshop ...
doing levels / contrast &C as a positive print might be easier than as a negative that you will invert ..

good luck!

john

[Gene McCluney]

Why not just make a contact darkroom print of the negative, then scan the print? The print will have all the qualities you want..Most flatbed film scanners do not have a bright enough light to do scanning thru the paper base.

[Gary Beasley]

If you are determined you should build a light box to put over the paper neg that has more horsepower than the light panel in the scanner and a dimmer so you can adjust for proper exposure.

[Flexnib]

Thank you all for the great info.
Arthur

[D. Bryant]

If you are determined you should build a light box to put over the paper neg that has more horsepower than the light panel in the scanner and a dimmer so you can adjust for proper exposure.

Sorry Gary, that won't work properly.

Don Bryant

[Gary Beasley]

It does if the scanner had a transparency adaptor, which is my take from the original question. You are right it won't work well with a simple reflection scanner unless you can find a way to kill the light bar while scanning. That would be more trouble than it was worth.

[Darryl Baird]

Arthur, after I saw you message I dropped a (RC) paper negative on my 4990 and made a transmissive scan without a problem. Are you using a film holder supplied by Epson? The holder helps get the scanner to calibrate for what is inside the film area. My scanner worked with either film negative settings -- "film holder" or "film area guide" with "B&W Negative" for the film type.


Helllo All,
Just received my Epson 4990 and have started to try to scan paper negs. I am having no luck. Anyone out there doing this? Please help. Any help on where and how to start would be helpful. I know it is alot to ask but any help at all would be appreciated.
Arthur

[D. Bryant]

It does if the scanner had a transparency adaptor, which is my take from the original question. You are right it won't work well with a simple reflection scanner unless you can find a way to kill the light bar while scanning. That would be more trouble than it was worth.
Sorry Gary, that won't work with a scanner built for scanning film transparencies or negatives. Using a florescent powered light box as the the light source will create scan lines in the scan. I've tried it and it doesn't work.

Don Bryant

[Flexnib]

I have gotten it to work. I just treat the paper neg as a picture, scan, flip and invert then go to work on the contrast, etc.
Thanks again
Arthur

[Flexnib]

Here is one of my negs scanned and fiddled with.
Arthur

[Gary Beasley]

Sorry Gary, that won't work with a scanner built for scanning film transparencies or negatives. Using a florescent powered light box as the the light source will create scan lines in the scan. I've tried it and it doesn't work.

Don Bryant

If thats the case why stick with flourescents? Incadescent lamps can be used, you just need to vent the heat. Nowadays led lamps may be the way to go. Either way I've done it before with a little handheld light panel for viewing slides. My only problem was lack of calibration for the exposure, which is solved by a dimmer.
Learn to worth with the equipment design and you can get away with a lot.

Interesting about the scan lines to catch the alternating colors of the flourescent output. I wonder if you get the same effect running white LEDs on an unfiltered ac or dc source.