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Steve Hamley
25-Mar-2009, 17:40
Folks,

I'm sending a 42cm Universal Heliar of the older uncoated variety to S.K. Grimes for service. Since one of the knurled "handles" is missing, I thought I'd have Adam turn me one, or a set, maybe out of a stainless bolt. They're simple.

So, anybody need any? My guess is that once the machine is set up, additional handles become much cheaper. They seem easy to lose and frequently come loose in shipping.

Anyway, if you're interested let me know. I imagine Adam would ship directly to you, or I can send them to you at cost if anyone is interested.

Cheers,

Steve

Kerry L. Thalmann
25-Mar-2009, 19:07
Folks,

I'm sending a 42cm Universal Heliar of the older uncoated variety to S.K. Grimes for service. Since one of the knurled "handles" is missing, I thought I'd have Adam turn me one, or a set, maybe out of a stainless bolt. They're simple.

So, anybody need any? My guess is that once the machine is set up, additional handles become much cheaper. They seem easy to lose and frequently come loose in shipping.

Anyway, if you're interested let me know. I imagine Adam would ship directly to you, or I can send them to you at cost if anyone is interested.

Cheers,

Steve

Steve,

Yes, definitely. I have a 48cm Universal Heliar that's in otherwise mint condition. It was shipped to me in the original leather case. Without additional padding, two of the "handles" were bent/broken during shipping. I'd love to get a couple replacements.

Are you going to ask Adam to make the older style with the knurling, or the later smooth style. Given the choice, I'd prefer the older style (and can provide one as an example if needed), but I'll take whatever I can get.

Kerry

Steve Hamley
25-Mar-2009, 19:19
Kerry,

I remember you having "handle" problems. I have a 36cm Universal, mint in box shipped the same way. One handle was AWOL but I found it in the packing. The diffusion ring was frozen, so it too went off to Adam. He looked at it for a week or ten days before he saw the problem, and said he removed a piece of metal the size of a fine eyelash about 1/16" long. People don't pack these things well enough. Maybe because of the weight they think they're indestructible or they don't care.

My 42cm was packed well but it was missing a handle as described.

The handles will be the old knurled type. I was thinking about having a set made so they'd match.

How many do you want? Two, four? Five (one for breakage)?

BTW, mine is going to Woonsocket in it's very own Storm Case double boxed.

Cheers,

Steve

Kerry L. Thalmann
25-Mar-2009, 19:42
Steve,

I'll take four. I still have two good originals. So, that will give me a complete set with two spares.

Kerry

Steve Hamley
25-Mar-2009, 20:03
Kerry,

Will do. I'll contact you after I talk to Adam. I'm doing 4 also.

Cheers,

Steve

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
31-Mar-2009, 11:56
Hi Steve, I might be interested in a pair...

jason

Steve Hamley
31-Mar-2009, 18:12
Update: my lens and a handle should arrive at S.K Grimes Thursday or Friday. I'll PM everyone with prices. I assume you'd just pay Adam and have him ship them. I also think these are the same as used on the aperture rings of the larger "regular" Heliars.

Cheers, Steve

blocher
1-Apr-2009, 14:53
I would take four of those myself. Adam has my credit card memorized by now.

David Blocher

Steve Hamley
1-Apr-2009, 17:22
David,

I feel your pain...:D

Steve

Steve Hamley
2-Apr-2009, 07:44
Update:

We're up to 14 handles not counting spares orders. I spoke with Adam this morning, and he will post a notice on his site saying when the handles will be made and the price, then you order directly from him.

I hope we have enough volume to make the price more reasonable, and those of you that would contemplate an additional large Heliar purchase should consider some spares as at least some the handles are frequently missing, and IIRC, the non-Universal 420 and 480 lenses use them on aperture rings.

Thanks to everyone for helping make this work, and I'll continue to keep the forum updated when Adam posts.

Cheers, Steve

Tim Deming
16-Jul-2009, 16:54
Hi Steve,

any update on these? I might be able to use 3-4

Thanks

Tim

Steve Hamley
16-Jul-2009, 17:22
Tim,

Thanks very much for the reminder. I need to get input from the forum on how we want to proceed, but I've discussed options with Adam to keep costs reasonable.

Yes. Adam has produced a prototype which I felt could use a bit of improvement (at no add'l cost). His original design used an aluminum sleeve and a flat-head phillips screw to make the handle, but I felt a button-head phillips would be better, closer to the original appearance.

Right now, the plan is to anodize these - with a button head phillips screw - black as apparently were the originals before a century of use polished them up. See attached photo. The nice thing about this design is that the only unique thing is the sleeve, the screw can be replaced if needed.

The price is $30 a pair unless input from the forum alters the design.

Oh yes, this design uses a stronger screw made of steel, so those with stiff aperture or diffusion rings should be pleased over the original brass handle.

Bill_1856
17-Jul-2009, 05:58
?????

Steve Hamley
17-Jul-2009, 06:21
They're the knobs that screw into the aperture and diffusion rings of the large Heliars and Universal Heliars to aid in turning the large rings.

Cheers, Steve

Tim Deming
17-Jul-2009, 08:37
Thanks for the update Steve.

A couple comments on the design, will Adam be able to match the fine knurling on the original handles? I'm guessing the knurling on the prototype was just a quick test, or is that how the final product will look?

Also, the original handles on my lens are steel, and were never black as far as I can tell (see pic). I would probably not want black ones.

cheers

http://tinypic.com/r/do8o4o/3

Tim

p.s. I'm missing the pin that is not shown in the picture :(

Bill_1856
17-Jul-2009, 14:35
My only Heliar is an old uncoated 15 cm, from my 9x12 Bergheil, and doesn't have any diffusion adjustment, so I wasn't aware it was/could be a soft-focus lens. Please educate me about this. Thanks - Bill

Steve Hamley
17-Jul-2009, 15:53
Bill,

Just search the forum for Universal Heliar.

Voigtlander made soft focus Heliars called Universal Heliars in focal lengths of 30cm, 36cm, 42cm and 48cm over the years. Earlier ones were uncoated and later ones were. They achieved their diffusion by moving the center group in and out, which is what the front ring in the picture above did. The ring was graduated from 1-5.

The "handles" were easy to lose or damage over the years which is why many of us would like to have some.

Attached is a picture of a 36cm Universal Heliar in barrel.

Cheers, Steve

Bill_1856
17-Jul-2009, 18:10
Thanks, Steve. Today I learned something -- hope I remember it tomorrow.

Arne Croell
18-Jul-2009, 02:36
Note that the handle design changed from before and during WWII (and maybe slightly after) to a more modern rounded one after WWII. Steve's picture shows the modern design. This change coincides with the switch to coating and a different font for the lettering.

Steven Tribe
4-Apr-2010, 08:30
Is this project still alive - I need a couple of handles too (pre-war)!

Richard K.
4-Apr-2010, 09:12
Please pardon my ignorance...but by handles, do you mean the little peg things on the front of the barrel diametrically opposite form each other that there should be two of that control the amount of spherical abberation by moving a "floating" element? If so, I need at least one as well for a 36 cm Universal Heliar. I also need the flange. Do you think Grimes know the flange specs or do they need the lens? Thank you! I don't see a reference to either on the Grimes site...

Steve Hamley
4-Apr-2010, 12:26
He had them up for a while. I received my "handles" and yes that's what they are; just a few weeks ago on my 42cm Universal Heliar. As to the flange, you'll have to ask.

Cheers, Steve

Tim Deming
5-Apr-2010, 14:06
You might also try a part supplier like McMaster Carr. I was able to find nice knurled knobs, similar the "old style" handles, made of stainless steel, and inexpensive (I think around $20 for a set of 4). The thread size for 48cm Uni-Heliar handles is the common metric M3. (not the same as the handle for 48cm Heliar, by the way, which is a much harder to find M2!)

cheers

Tim

Steven Tribe
14-Jan-2011, 10:15
I am starting this thread up again as I need a set of the M2 handles for my 300mm Universal Heliar. I have lent this to Gandolfi and he is struggling with a stiff soft focus adjustment.
Grimes (Adam) doesn't have any on stock at the moment (why didn't he make more last time?). The current price for a pair is $65 which I are prepared to fork out.
However, if there are others that still need replacements, now is perhaps a good time to order. It might/should even benefit us all pricewise.
I have placed an order and the lead time is approximately 4 weeks.
I would interested in hearing how the last batch ordering worked out.
Anyone else in adding to the order?

Emil Schildt
14-Jan-2011, 14:05
:cool:
I am starting this thread up again as I need a set of the M2 handles for my 300mm Universal Heliar. I have lent this to Gandolfi and he is struggling with a stiff soft focus adjustment.
Grimes (Adam) doesn't have any on stock at the moment (why didn't he make more last time?). The current price for a pair is $65 which I are prepared to fork out.
However, if there are others that still need replacements, now is perhaps a good time to order. It might/should even benefit us all pricewise.
I have placed an order and the lead time is approximately 4 weeks.
I would interested in hearing how the last batch ordering worked out.
Anyone else in adding to the order?

I should order some... then I'd actually have something from a Universal... :D

Yes, I am struggeling. very, very stiff. When heated a little it goes a little better, but it is not "workable"...
I have to remove the lens from the camera; then use minutes to try an find the appropriate softness - then re-fit the lens and make my images...

Steve Hamley
14-Jan-2011, 16:41
If the movements are stiff, they could benefit from a cleaning, somewhat traumatic as it involves shipping. My large Universal Heliars are somewhat stiff after cleaning which I assume was the intention - that adjustments not shift in use.

I'll buy in to another 2-4 if that helps, but let's make sure what they fit. Nothing in that era was standard.

Cheers, Steve

Steven Tribe
15-Jan-2011, 03:05
I would send the Universal to Grimes if:
-If I could find an appropriate postal service - it weighs more than the 2 kilo maximum.
-If I was convinced that it would be adjustable "in situ" on a camera after "cleaning".

So far, I am sticking to the belief that the need for handles in the torque design means that it will always be non-adjustable, in a safe manner, on the camera. Watching the middle lens "shoot" forward with a slight turn of the ring tells me that I should be grateful that the force needed doesn't appear to damage the mechanism. If anyone can describe the mechanism, I would be grateful?

I don't think there is much doubt about the thread being an M2. Europe has always been loyal to the Metric system thanks to Republican France. My threads look clean but perhaps Grimes could make a slight oversize M2.

I'll send the handles on to you Emil.

Steven Tribe
18-Jan-2011, 03:50
Just in case anyone wants to "add on" to the order, the job number with Grimes is 6986. Adam has said that additional orders will be a cost that is less than than the $65a pair. Lead time is about a month from now.

For the record, I have never had any connection with SKGrimes before now!

Comments about the experience of others in turning the ring with the lens board in place on the camera would be extremely welcome! Perhaps the stiffness of the mechanism was acceptable to portrait photographers, who knew the right settings for a particluar "face" through years of daily use?

eddie
18-Jan-2011, 03:58
it should not be very stiff to turn. it needs a CLA. by continuing to force it will result in breakage if it is as stiff as you describe. adding the little knobs will result in one of several possible out comes.

nothing. turn stiff still (until one of the below happen....)

break the handles off leaving you with a broken bit in the hole that you will have difficulty removing.

the SF mechanism will break.

eddie

Steven Tribe
18-Jan-2011, 04:04
You fell directly into my trap, Eddie!
And how does the Universal strip down in the front?

eddie
18-Jan-2011, 04:19
You fell directly into my trap, Eddie!
And how does the Universal strip down in the front?

send it to me and i will tell you.....)

Tim Deming
18-Jan-2011, 12:27
it should not be very stiff to turn. it needs a CLA. by continuing to force it will result in breakage if it is as stiff as you describe. adding the little knobs will result in one of several possible out comes.

nothing. turn stiff still (until one of the below happen....)

break the handles off leaving you with a broken bit in the hole that you will have difficulty removing.

the SF mechanism will break.

eddie

Agreed. My 48cm Universal Heliar SF mechanism could barely be turned before cleaning. After cleaning and lubrication, I can turn the SF mechanism on the camera without difficulty (it does require 2 hands though). Bear in mind, the thread diameter is pretty big on these lenses, which means it doesnt take much for them to bind or get tight. Think of the last time your screwed a big greater than 4 in / 100 cm diameter lens into its flange...

The SF mechanism in these is similar to the old style focussing mounts used in lenses on folding strut cameras from the early 1900s. The middle element has 3 pins on the outside that ride in diagonal tracks in a cylindrical sleeve. As the sleeve is turned (when you adjust SF), the lens moves up/down in the housing. This all needs to be clean and lightly lubricated.

Taking the Uni-heliar apart is not trivial. For mine (48cm), I had to take the housing for the aperture off first, this exposed a set screw that, once removed, allowed me to unscrew the top to remove the whole SF mechanism and front elements. Once this set screw is out, just keep turning past "5" and everything will come out as 1 piece. Note, that if the mechanism is dirty, bent, etc. it might take a long while to work the threads to get everything to come out. I seem to remember about ~10-15 whole turns, which took over an hour of slowly working the threads back and forth and applying penetrating lubricant (which is easily removable once you get the whole thing apart). They are very fine threads.

If you are careful, you will have a very smooth SF adjustment when you are done (and clean elements while you are at it)

cheers

Tim

Steven Tribe
18-Jan-2011, 14:19
Many thanks Tim. Just the information I needed. I am sure there are others out there with "glued up" soft mechanisms.

Steven Tribe
19-Jan-2011, 09:00
Tim has supplied further information about Universal dismantling.
I'll do a series on cleaning the Universal soft mechanism when it is returned from a loan (in six months?).

Emil Schildt
19-Jan-2011, 14:27
Tim has supplied further information about Universal dismantling.
I'll do a series on cleaning the Universal soft mechanism when it is returned from a loan (in six months?).

maybe before...

I'm looking to buy another one... (just need to convince my self, that I have the money needed...:rolleyes: )

Steve Hamley
19-Jan-2011, 17:03
Here you go Gandolfi, better have deep pockets...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Voigtlander-Universal-Heliar-42-cm-/260724794161?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item3cb468a331

No relation with seller...

Cheers, Steve

Steven Tribe
20-Jan-2011, 03:55
The other Universal this seller is listing is probably more interesting for Emil. 30cm + Compound shutter. Weightwise and Pricewise!

Emil Schildt
20-Jan-2011, 05:27
The other Universal this seller is listing is probably more interesting for Emil. 30cm + Compound shutter. Weightwise and Pricewise!

indeed...

Looks really nice!
(but I have my eye out for another one - quite a bit cheaper...)

Steven Tribe
13-Feb-2011, 03:05
This is just a reminder that Grimes should starting making my Universal Handles in about a week - so now is the time to "expand" the number he will be making if anyone is in need. This applies to the current listed 300mm in the FS section, too!

Steven Tribe
21-Feb-2011, 14:46
And the new universal handles from Grimes have arrived! "He" was making them as I wrote last time.

cdholden
8-Aug-2011, 11:44
Tim has supplied further information about Universal dismantling.
I'll do a series on cleaning the Universal soft mechanism when it is returned from a loan (in six months?).

The postal winds have blown one of these in my direction. I'm now the happy owner of a 36cm version from late 1924.

Tim,
Thank you for detailing disassembly. It is helpful (but I'm still undecided) in helping to decide whether to wait 4-7 weeks in sending mine off for CLA or attempting to do it myself. I would like to get new handles for the SF ring at some point.

Steven,
Did you ever "do a series" on the SF mechanism? I would be especially interested if it includes photos. This lens is a beast and is much larger than my non-Universal 30cm Heliar.

Thanks,
Chris

Steven Tribe
8-Aug-2011, 14:44
My Universal Heliar is still with Emil (Gandolfi)! He has also bought one now, too.
I will be picking mine up this month (he is in Prague at the moment).
This is the only major project I have left this summer - apart from a day of bronze casting for the Century Studio swivel parts. Will provide both text and photos of the Universal "operation".

Tim Deming
9-Aug-2011, 08:22
CD-

Sorry, I didnt take pictures when I had mine apart. Although, sounds like Steven will do it right once he gets his Uni Heliar back.

If you're handy, patient and comfortable taking things apart, it really is not that difficult. Mainly it's the patience of slowly working the threads loose on the SF mechanism to get the lens apart. Mine was very dirty and probably hadn't been moved in decades -it would not budge at all when I started. If you've got some movement, it shouldn't be too bad, and well worth the effort when you are done. Much less complicated an operation compared to dismantling a shutter or resetting aperture blades...

cheers

Tim

cdholden
9-Aug-2011, 15:46
Tim,
I have done a bit of guess work and have come to the conclusion that my issue is dried lubricant. First, mine is the 36cm flavor-- smaller than your lens. I get some movement on the front; not completely seized. When in my air conditioned office, it is difficult to move. After a few hours in the car (it was 97F/36C outside, so much hotter in the car), the soft focus mechanism moved much easier.
I don't see how the iris adjustment can be removed without going in from the back. There is a set screw for the iris once the rear element comes off, but after that a spanner wrench will be necessary. I don't have one at the moment. I'm taking a time out to tackle some obligations at work for a few days, but will take snapshots if I get to feeling froggy and take it apart. At this point, I'm thinking it best to minimize the chance of damage and let someone skilled at this take it on.

Thanks for your input.
Chris

Steven Tribe
9-Aug-2011, 15:55
Chris, this was what Tim wrote to me in the Spring (he's offline just now).

"If you are handy, and the SF adjustment is not too frozen, it is not
that difficult a job. The initial difficultly was figuring out the way
to get it apart. After removing the rear element, it was clear that the
mechanism had to come apart from the front, and finding the set screw
under the aperture collar (which is unusually very wide on the
universals) was the key. The SF adjustment very stiff and took a while
to loosen up. It was touch and go for a while, but I eventually got it
apart with lots of small turns and loosening and tightening."
My italics!

Tim Deming
10-Aug-2011, 10:57
Right on. you do not want to take the aperture blades out. Having had to do that to fix some loose ones in a 48cm regular heliar, it is something that I would prefer to avoid in the future. Requires lots of patience to get them back in all aligned and working properly.

I can take a picture of my Uni. showing the location of the set screw that releases the front if you are interested. Sounds like yours should not be that difficult to get apart

cheers

Tim