Looking for a new camera: Shen-Hao vs Chamonix [Archive]

thechrisproject

18-Mar-2009, 19:28

Hello, all. I've been recommended this forum from the flickr large format group.

I'm looking to buy my first 4x5 soon. I've been doing lots of research, asking a lot of people questions, and learning as much as possible. I shoot landscapes... often in parking garages. Examples (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thechrisproject/sets/72157612658005946/).

On a 35mm camera, I use 24mm and 35mm lenses predominantly. I've used Tilt/Shift lenses and borrowed a monorail 4x5 and found that being able to move the front standard up is the vitally important movement for me. Having a foldable camera is also important. The monorail I borrowed was a hassle to walk around with.

So I've kind of narrowed things down to a new Shen-Hao or a Chamonix. I can get a Shen-Hao from Badger, which appeals to me because I live in Wisconsin. And somebody on ebay has a number of Chamonix in stock, so I wouldn't have to wait 6 months. If I did, I'd go with the Shen-Hao. I'd like to spend less than $1000. I'm open to other suggestions. I might start with a lens in the 105-135 range, but I don't forsee using anything much longer than 150. I might want to use a 65 or a 90 later.

It's been hard to figure out the movements based on specs. Sometimes the front rise and fall are expressed as one number, which doesn't seem to tell me exactly how much rise I can get. Although I guess the image circle of the lens limits that as well. Stats on image circle size aren't the easiest for me to find either. Do you find that 90-135mm lenses often have image circles that limit movements more so than the camera itself? Which camera would you get in my position?

Thanks, and if I forgot any relevant info, lemme know. Sorry if you get posts like this all the time. I see them in other camera groups and groan at them sometimes.

Turner Reich

18-Mar-2009, 19:34

The Shen Hao is a nice camera and Badger is an excellent dealer, hands down. I can't think of any down sides to the Shen Hao except for the bellow extension which could be longer but for a camera of this type it's a small to non concern. The lenses you are going to use would be perfect for this camera and the price is a winner too. I'd go with it, I did as did thousands of others. It has an international Graflok back too. Everything works smooth and it's not that heavy either. Good luck.

thechrisproject

18-Mar-2009, 19:37

Good to know Badger is a good dealer. That makes a difference. At this time I have no plans to use long focal lengths or shoot anything closer than 5 feet away, so I'm not sure limited bellows extension will matter. Yes?

Michael Gordon

18-Mar-2009, 19:53

Both cameras are very capable of generous movements all the way around. The most significant differences between the cameras is in handling. The Shen-Hao is a little more precise (like perhaps the Ebony's that it copies), while the Chamonix has little to no gearing or detents. I prefer the Chamonix's freer and faster controls and more 'intuitive' movements. Both are excellent cameras for money. Have a ball.

venchka

18-Mar-2009, 19:54

Looking at your work I would describe your work as architectural interiors. That doesn't change your camera & lens choices. The Large Format Information page has numerous articles and tables showing image circle. Buy all you can get. You may also find a bag bellows to be a good accessory. The Chamonix Universal Bellows is a good option. In 35mm film terms, a 125mm lens on 4x5 is roughly equal to a 35mm lens on the smaller film. A 90mm lens = 28mm, approximately.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html

Add Midwest Photo Exchange and KEH to your shopping list.

Good luck!

Sheldon N

18-Mar-2009, 19:59

The Chamonix would be 1.5-2 lbs lighter, if that matters to you.

To me the most important figure would be the amount of front rise available with the standard bellows on a 90mm focal length lens. Typically this is the challenge for field cameras, since it is the most commonly used movement on the most common lens. A 135mm lens typically will have less image circle than a 90mm lens, since the average 135mm lens is a plasmat design (200-210mm image circle) and the average 90mm lens is a wide angle (wasp waist) design (215-230mm image circle).

I don't have either camera so now would be the time for owners to chime in, but from what I remember the Chamonix does better on movements with wide angle lenses on the stock bellows. If you go to the bag bellows, then this becomes a non-issue.

Brian Ellis

18-Mar-2009, 20:02

I've owned both, I'd get the Chamonix and it would be an easy decision. It's about 2 pounds lighter than the Shen, has axis front tilt (axis on the Shen can be done but it's kind of a pain), a considerably longer bellows (about 15" vs 12") (again, the Shen can go to about 14" but you have to use base tilt to extend the lens out in front of the camera bed to do it and then use axis tilt to bring the lens parallel with the film, an awkward procedure at least for me), and just in general the Chamonix is a more elegant, nicer camera IMHO. It probably costs roughly $200 more now than the Shen but is well worth it IMHO.

venchka

18-Mar-2009, 20:11

Read this...

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=46921

Do some searching on this forum for info. on both cameras.

Gem Singer

18-Mar-2009, 20:15

Badger shows the new Shen Hao PTB on their website. This camera is a light weight 4X5 copy of the Chamonix (which is a copy of the Phillips). It appears to be in stock, and is priced very reasonably at $650.

I've only seen pictures of the PTB, but it looks like a nice camera. Probably not built as well as the Chamonix, but it is immediately available and is priced right.

Check it out.

Peter De Smidt

18-Mar-2009, 20:36

Shen Hao makes three 4x5 cameras:
The PTB,
HZX-45-IIA,
TZ45-IIB

Just from looking at web images, the TZ45-IIB interests me the most. Unfortunately, Badger is out of stock at the moment, but they should have more in soon. When they do, I'll stop by and check them out. Badger is definitely worth a visit, if nothing else to see some John Sexton prints. It's not a standard retail store, and so don't expect that. It's more like an office, workroom and warehouse. If you stop by, it's right off of hwy 41 in Kaukauna, make sure to check out their hours, and make sure Jeff will be there.

I've briefly handled the PTB. It looks like a nice camera. I used to own a Chamonix, and I don't see any reason to prefer it over the Shen-Hao.

KJ Smith

18-Mar-2009, 21:44

It does not take 6 months to get a Chamonix.

Here is their US contact. hugoz_2000@yahoo.com

I am very close to ordering one. I was told one week from the time it ships.

They have the one I want in stock.

Email Hugo and he will give you pricing info.

Kevin

Clement Apffel

19-Mar-2009, 01:26

I own the chamonix and I am very happy with it.
I concidered to buy a Shen-Hao when I was gathering information about lightweight low cost folding 4x5 cameras. And I ended with the Chamonix which seemed to have more movement, more wide angle abilities, weights less and is more compact. It was also cheaper back then.

You can also note that you cannot fold the Chamonix with a lens. Any lens. I believe the shen-hao can.
Also, and I’ve been saying that a lot lately, if you go for the Chamonix, my advice is to stay away from the bag bellows. Universal bellows will do just what you need and is much more convenient than the bag.

But as other members suggested the best way to make your opinion on what camera suits you better is to put your hands on them. Look for a store where you can try them.
Even though the Chamonix could be hard to find in a retail store.

Because both are probably very good cameras.

thechrisproject

19-Mar-2009, 04:39

Venchka - I've been checking keh for lenses. I forgot about mpex, I usually think of them as the flash guys, but I'll add them to the hunt.

Brian - Aha! Someone who's had both. Thanks for the info.

Venchka again - I've read that thread and searched the forums. I have learned a lot. I was hoping for some good head to head comparison, and this thread is an enormous help.

Gem - The HZX is the one I was interested in. It seems to have more front rise, which is attractive to me.

thechrisproject

19-Mar-2009, 04:41

Ulrich Drolshagen

19-Mar-2009, 07:17

Clement - I'd love to put my hands on either of them, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

Have any Chamonix users had trouble with the lensboard locking mechanism? I thought I read about that somewhere; the tabs were flimsy, or flipped up, or something like that.

There seems to be an issue with the thickness of some "China"-lensboards. They are too thick and in so far out of spec. I have one Toyo-lensboard and it's ok. The other lens is on a DIY-lensboard I made from 2mm aluminium sheet. It's ok too.

Ulrich

peterjnolan

19-Mar-2009, 08:51

I also have both cameras. Without question, I prefer the Chamonix. It is better engineered and despite being a couple of pounds lighter, it is far more stable.

Bill_1856

19-Mar-2009, 09:24

I don't see any problems with your current work which would be improved by switching to LargeFormat.

venchka

19-Mar-2009, 09:26

I don't see any problems with your current work which would be improved by switching to LargeFormat.

What? Discourage someone from buying new and or used hardware? :D That's un-Amurican.

Bjorn Nilsson

19-Mar-2009, 09:45

Just a word on lens choice and learning Large Format photography. Going from a normal 35mm, medium format or digital camera, you suddenly find that you can use all sorts of movements of the back and front of the camera. (Well, you knew that.) But to really learn it well, you need to use a lens (i.e. focal length) which makes it easy to see and feel what is happening when you e.g. tilt the front a little.
Now, with wide angle lenses things happens very quickly and they are quite fuzzy to have the correct angle. If you use a normal(ish) lens you have to use bigger movements and whatever happens is more obvious.
So, start up with a 135 or 150 lens. They are so much easier to learn with. (The advantage of a 150 over a 135 is a larger image circle, so that you can move around more in the image circle, i.e. shift. But they are both "normal" lenses, as opposed to e.g. a 90mm, which definitely is a wide-angle lens in behaviour.) Or maybe you can pick up a cheap 210 lens. (A nice but used Fujinon 210 L seems to go for very little money nowadays. It's a Tessar design as opposed to a Plasmat (Sironar, Symmar ...) which covers more but is also larger and heavier.) You may think that it's too long, but very nice for learning.
It's also quite probable that your way of shooting will be different with a large format camera, due to many things. First, it's much slower, but there are also a lot more possibilities with the movements. All of this affects the way you create a picture.

//Björn

mandoman7

19-Mar-2009, 10:07

I'm a new Chamonix user, 45n-1. I have a couple of other 4x5's but neither offered this combination of flexibility and rigidity. I've now had a bunch of shoots in the field and am really liking it. It is every bit as rigid as the Arca Swiss monorail I used, I think that is one of its strong suits.

There are threads about the bubble levels and lensboards but neither has been an issue for me. The locking mechanism for lensboards is way better than on my Deardorffs, one of which actually dropped lenses. This will not happen on the Chamonix. I checked the bubble levels closely, having read many comments, and while they are not precise, I find them close enough to be useful in the field.

Now being in a mode where I'm doing a lot of field shooting, the ability to put compendium shades on after focussing, and to load holders with no repositioning of the camera is a revelation. Seems like I was always having to open the lens again and recompose when something moved with my prior outfits.

JY

tgtaylor

19-Mar-2009, 10:16

venchka

19-Mar-2009, 10:27

Read this. It may help. It may confuse. If it was easy we would all have the same camera and lens. How boring would that be?

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=46943

Cheers!

jb7

19-Mar-2009, 10:27

I had a quick look at your pictures, and you seem to like shooting wide-
However, I might agree with Björn that movements would be demonstrated better by using a slightly longer lens-

Nothing to stop you getting a wide one as well, of course...

I wouldn't be discouraged by carefully worded put-downs either,
if you think you want to go large, go large, you won't regret it-

I use a monorail, and have no experience of folders,
but those Chamonix (is it its own plural?) do look lovely...

joseph

walter23

19-Mar-2009, 10:39

It's been hard to figure out the movements based on specs. Sometimes the front rise and fall are expressed as one number, which doesn't seem to tell me exactly how much rise I can get. Although I guess the image circle of the lens limits that as well. Stats on image circle size aren't the easiest for me to find either. Do you find that 90-135mm lenses often have image circles that limit movements more so than the camera itself? Which camera would you get in my position?

Nice stuff on your website; I think a view camera will definitely be a good fit for your style of shooting.

The Shen Hao will out-move most moderately priced lenses (at least the HZX45-IIA, which is the one I have and would probably continue to prefer over the newer TZ version (with aluminum/silver-coloured hardware) as it has more movements). However - one thing to remember with respect to front rise is that you can get more of it by using a combination of other movements.

Front rise, for example, can be added to by pointing the camera up (with the tripod), then levelling the front and rear standards with forward tilt. Diagram attached.

The same is true with other movements; often you can find a different combination to accomplish the same thing (swings = shift, etc).

I have a grandagon 90/6.8 and a sironar-N 210 (plus a variety of other misc. weird lenses) and both have plenty of coverage but not enough to out-move the shen hao, although with the 210 I can resort to the odd contortion to get more the rare times I want it (like the tilts to get more rise).

walter23

19-Mar-2009, 10:49

I don't have either camera so now would be the time for owners to chime in, but from what I remember the Chamonix does better on movements with wide angle lenses on the stock bellows. If you go to the bag bellows, then this becomes a non-issue.

Yes, with a 90mm lens you will need a bag bellows for any real movement. This isn't a bad thing - I consider it a good thing (other cameras may give slightly more movement with the stock bellows but then don't have a bag bellows option, so you lose out in the end).

The Shen Hao bag bellows is $99 last I checked, and if you plan to use anything wider than maybe 135mm, consider it a necessity. Don't worry - changing it "in the field" is a pretty easy operation (two thumbscrews and a half minute of fiddling around).

Clement Apffel

19-Mar-2009, 11:51

Yes, with a 90mm lens you will need a bag bellows for any real movement.

Allow me to completely disagree.

With the standard bellows and a recessed lensboard I can use my super-angulon 90mm f/8 almost to its full movement ability. I would be able to use it fully with the universal bellows. And by far.

I repeat that (to me at least) the bag bellows is a waste on the Chamonix 45N-1.
What I like with that camera is lightweight and quick setting for backpacking or LF on travel.

When I want full movement range for architecture close to the car, then I use my Cambo SCX monorail + bag bellows + Super-Angulon XL 90mm f/5,6 + 3 meters height tripod with folding scale.
With this camera and equipement I don’t mind changing the bellows to use the gigantic coverage of the 90 SA XL.

But I would not bother to do that with a folding camera and SA f/8 or any low coverage portable field 90mm lens when the universal bellows + recessed lens board would offer full movement ability for those lenses and will be MUCH more convenient to use in the field with this lightweight equipement.
I find the bellows changing operation totaly unconvenient on the 45N-1. But no worries, the universal bellows actually is universal.

And just so you know, the recessed lensboard is not denying access to any settings of the shutter or lens. It is easily usable in the field as long as you have a shutter release extension. $30 at B&H.

Cheers.

vinny

19-Mar-2009, 14:07

I've owned and used both cameras extensively. I kept the bag bellows from the shen hao to use on the chamonix. I've posted a comparison on this site that you should be able to find. For what it's worth, I like the chamonix better for it's stability and longer lens/ macro capability.

thechrisproject

19-Mar-2009, 16:19

I don't see any problems with your current work which would be improved by switching to LargeFormat.

That is a very good point. First off, thanks for looking. I think you are right in some ways. I have very few technical issues that will be solved by using a large format camera. Although there are a fair number of shots I don't take because I can't really do what I want. Most of them have to do with front rise.

But the main reason I'm attracted to large format is because it's a different way of working, a way that fascinates me. I've been shooting with a dSLR for a few years now, and I love it, but it's hard for me to use that tool to shoot in a more slow, contemplative way. I'm not sure I'll ever switch to mainly LF, but I'm sure I will learn things from it that will affect my way of seeing things and shooting. Just borrowing a monorail for a weekend was a fantastic experience. I really like composing on a ground glass. I'm not sure why, but perspective control is important to me. And the experience of having a huge negative is just cool. It blew me away. Enough so that I'd like to do it more.

Is the cost that I'll incur starting up with LF worth it? I'm not sure. $800+ on a body, $500-ish on a lens, another $500 for a v700 scanner... it's gonna get up to $2000 pretty quick. It seems worth it to me.

Robert Glieden

19-Mar-2009, 16:34

I use a Shen Hao TFC45 non-folding camera and love it. It's harder to find and gets overlooked. Not as versitile but just wanted to let you know it's out there. It's good to have options.

thechrisproject

19-Mar-2009, 16:36

Allow me to completely disagree.

With the standard bellows and a recessed lensboard I can use my super-angulon 90mm f/8 almost to its full movement ability. I would be able to use it fully with the universal bellows. And by far.

I find the bellows changing operation totaly unconvenient on the 45N-1. But no worries, the universal bellows actually is universal.

And just so you know, the recessed lensboard is not denying access to any settings of the shutter or lens. It is easily usable in the field as long as you have a shutter release extension. $30 at B&H.

Cheers.

The camera I borrowed last weekend had a 135mm with a recessed lensboard. It didn't seem to bother me at all.

thechrisproject

19-Mar-2009, 16:37

I use a Shen Hao TFC45 non-folding camera and love it. It's harder to find and gets overlooked. Not as versitile but just wanted to let you know it's out there. It's good to have options.

Any more options and I think I'm going to get stuck with decision paralysis. :)

Gem Singer

19-Mar-2009, 16:40

mandoman7

20-Mar-2009, 10:16

"If you can't pay, you can't play."

All kidding aside, large format photography has the tendency to become expensive. When you add the cost of a focusing loupe, dark cloth, film holders, tripod, carrying case, etc., the cost begins to add up very quickly.

If you thought the image on the ground glass of that 4X5 monorail was impressive, wait till you get a glimpse of the image on an 8X10 ground glass. You'll be hooked and realize that there's no turning back.

Until you start adding up your film costs!:p

I love using my 8x10 and looking at the negatives. One of the greatest things about it for me, though, is how easy it makes the 4x5 seem after taking the 8x into the field.

John

Jrewt

20-Mar-2009, 10:21

Until you start adding up your film costs!:p

I love using my 8x10 and looking at the negatives. One of the greatest things about it for me, though, is how easy it makes the 4x5 seem after taking the 8x into the field.

John

I totally agree with that one. There's no way I could afford to shoot 8x10 color right now. I'm doing all my BW work 8x10, and color 4x5 just to keep the costs down.

Really Big Cameras

20-Mar-2009, 10:50

[QUOTE=walter23;450615]Yes, with a 90mm lens you will need a bag bellows for any real movement. This isn't a bad thing - I consider it a good thing (other cameras may give slightly more movement with the stock bellows but then don't have a bag bellows option, so you lose out in the end).[QUOTE]

I was playing around with the Chamonix 045n-1 last night, with various lenses and the universal bellows just to see what it's capable of.

As Clement stated previously, with the universal bellows, the Chamonix can easily handle full movements with most 90mm lenses. You can easily get a full 45mm of rise (max. permissable direct front rise) with a 90mm lens focused at infinity with the universal bellows. The only 90mm whose coverage MIGHT be limited by the universal bellows is the 90mm Super Angulon XL.

For lenses shorter than 90mm, the only readily available lens whose coverage MIGHT exceed the movement capabilities would be the 72mm Super Angulon XL. Most other lenses this wide, have rather limited image circles (typically 163 - 195mm). For these lenses, you'll run out image circle before you reach the limits of the universal bellows.

The reason, I used MIGHT in reference to the two Super Angulon XL lenses is that I don't currently have either to perform a test and provide a definitive answer.

So, on 4x5, unless you are using one of the two Super Angulon XL lenses with extreme movements, the universal bellows will not be a limiting factor.

If you shoot roll film formats and AND require extreme movements with lenses shorter than 90mm, the bag bellows would be the best solution.

As Clement mentioned in his post, for most 4x5 users, the Chamonix universal bellows really IS universal. And, if you buy it, in place of the standard belllows, when you purchase your camera, it's only a $22 adder over the cost of the standard bellows.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

vinny

20-Mar-2009, 11:10

"As Clement mentioned in his post, for most 4x5 users, the Chamonix universal bellows really IS universal. And, if you buy it, in place of the standard belllows, when you purchase your camera, it's only a $22 adder over the cost of the standard bellows."

I would be nice of Chamonix to mention that on their site. Had I known that, I would have done so.

mandoman7

20-Mar-2009, 11:42

I would be nice of Chamonix to mention that on their site. Had I known that, I would have done so.

Bought mine through Kerry recently and he steered me to the right bellows. Its good to buy from someone who's using the equipment and knows his stuff...

John Youngblood

Really Big Cameras

20-Mar-2009, 18:54

Before you take the plunge with your wallet, consider the practicality of using a wooden camera in your work.

Sure, they are beautiful to look at but I don't believe that they take kindly to moisture. Moisture is an important issue with me because I backpack over night and frequently photograph in the Sierra Nevada during the winter. Living in Wisconsin I'm sure that you will be out photographing in the snow often.

While I understand the theory behind your aversion to wooden cameras, as someone who lives in a wet climate (Oregon, it rains a LOT here), in practice I have never had a problem with a wooden camera caused by moisture.

In theory, metal cameras may be more durable and more resistant to the elements, but again, I have never had any problems in these areas with any of the many wooden cameras I've used (Zone VI, Anba Ikeda, Wisner, Canham).

And, while some cameras, like the Canham and Chamonix may use wood in the construction, they don't rely on the precise fit of these pieces for operation of the moving parts. The wooden Canham is basically a metal chassis with a wooden skin. The chassis of the camera is metal, but wood is used for the frames and bed.

The Chamonix has a carbon fiber base and a carbon fiber focusing bed that is driven by a metal lead screw and rides on metal sliders. All of the movements on the Chamonix are metal-on-metal. These parts, like on any metal camera, are CNC milled to very precise tolerances. The only wooden parts on the camera are the front and rear frames. Not only does the wood look nice in these locations, it's also makes the camera lighter than if these frames were made from metal.

That said, every camera is different in terms of features, specs, price, etc. I'm not claiming a wooden camera, let alone any specific brand, is right for everyone, but I would not exclude one from consideration just because wood is one of the materials used in the construction.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Gregory Ng

20-Mar-2009, 19:59

Kerry, can I use the Horseman 612 with the chamonix 4x5, thanks.

Bill_1856

20-Mar-2009, 20:23

That is a very good point. First off, thanks for looking. I think you are right in some ways. I have very few technical issues that will be solved by using a large format camera. Although there are a fair number of shots I don't take because I can't really do what I want. Most of them have to do with front rise.

But the main reason I'm attracted to large format is because it's a different way of working, a way that fascinates me. I've been shooting with a dSLR for a few years now, and I love it, but it's hard for me to use that tool to shoot in a more slow, contemplative way. I'm not sure I'll ever switch to mainly LF, but I'm sure I will learn things from it that will affect my way of seeing things and shooting. Just borrowing a monorail for a weekend was a fantastic experience. I really like composing on a ground glass. I'm not sure why, but perspective control is important to me. And the experience of having a huge negative is just cool. It blew me away. Enough so that I'd like to do it more.

Is the cost that I'll incur starting up with LF worth it? I'm not sure. $800+ on a body, $500-ish on a lens, another $500 for a v700 scanner... it's gonna get up to $2000 pretty quick. It seems worth it to me.

I couldn't agree more with everything you've said. I've been shooting 4x5 since 1951, and I love doing it, but with rare exceptions the actual results have been pretty pedestrian.
I'm sure that you're aware of PC lenses for your 35mm. My 28 and 35mm PC Nikkors are by far my most used prime lenses. I've never found tilt to be necessary. I believe that 24mm PCs are now available for some brands.
If you don't have PC lenses, you can always just tilt the camera and correct for the resulting perspective distortion in printing by tilting your easel or if you're printing digitally it is easily done in Photoshop.
One other thought -- instead of all those very expensive field cameras with movements that you'll never use, your needs may well be met with a nice used Busch Pressman (model D). Lots of them on eBay, less than $300.

Really Big Cameras

20-Mar-2009, 22:23

Kerry, can I use the Horseman 612 with the chamonix 4x5, thanks.

Gregory,

Yes, no problems with the Horseman roll film backs, including the 6x12, on the Chamonix 4x5.

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

Frank Petronio

21-Mar-2009, 04:11

Did I miss something or is Kerry selling Chamonix cameras now? I don't see them on his website.

Archphoto

21-Mar-2009, 09:59

Has any one attached a Linhof Universal viewfinder to the Chamonix 45 ?

Thinking of buying a Chamonix, thats why.

How to fit it on top I know.

Thanks,
Peter

Oren Grad

21-Mar-2009, 11:25

Did I miss something or is Kerry selling Chamonix cameras now?

Both. ;)

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=43478 (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=43478&highlight=thalmann+chamonix)

tgtaylor

21-Mar-2009, 11:52

While I understand the theory behind your aversion to wooden cameras, as someone who lives in a wet climate (Oregon, it rains a LOT here), in practice I have never had a problem with a wooden camera caused by moisture.

In theory, metal cameras may be more durable and more resistant to the elements, but again, I have never had any problems in these areas with any of the many wooden cameras I've used (Zone VI, Anba Ikeda, Wisner, Canham).

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras (http://reallybigcameras.com)

I am from the deep, deep south where the homes are wooden and at least a century or two old. Those houses were built out of Cypress - a tree that grows in the swamp and not susceptible to dry rot as other woods are. I wonder why Cypress is not used in wooden camera construction?

Gordon Moat

21-Mar-2009, 14:32

I got my Shen-Hao HZX45A-II from Badger Graphic a few years ago, and it has worked quite well for me in urban shooting situations. I started off with a used 135mm lens, which the camera can easily exceed image circle with the movements possible. Only the 180mm Nikkor I have comes close to running into the edge of possible movements while still in the image circle, but then the camera nearly seems twisted into a pretzel to do that.

The HZX45A-II has rear standard movements. Originally I felt I would not use them much, though I wanted to be able to have the choice. After much more time using my Shen-Hao, I find that I use the rear movements quite often.

Going to a 90mm lens, which you may want eventually, you might find that some movements could really bunch up the standard bellows. The bellows is stiff when the camera is new, though it will loosen up a little with usage. One option is the bag bellows, which Badger sell. Another option is a recessed lens board, though if you shoot under low light or night conditions, then it is tougher to read the aperture and shutter settings. You can use the bag bellows with a 135mm, so it would be possible to keep it on the camera, though the standard bellows would be better with longer lenses.

Since you want to go mostly short or wide lenses, then you might consider one of the other Shen-Hao cameras. The HZX45A-II is very nice, and a good all around choice, but one of the more specialized models might be more workable for you. Depending upon pricing, the TFC45-BII might be a better choice.

http://www.shen-hao.com/

Ciao!

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